gregf Posted January 5, 2016 Posted January 5, 2016 With CES starting tomorrow it will be interesting to see what Echo and other HA announcements are made. Ford has already announced a partnership with Amazon Alexa and Echo. I'm surprised they are talking about the Wink hub though. I thought I read Wink was having money trouble, and was expecting to see them disappear. Maybe Ford is the infusion of new cash they needed. I wonder how many new proprietary cloud solutions will be announced. Quote
Teken Posted January 5, 2016 Posted January 5, 2016 With CES starting tomorrow it will be interesting to see what Echo and other HA announcements are made. Ford has already announced a partnership with Amazon Alexa and Echo. I'm surprised they are talking about the Wink hub though. I thought I read Wink was having money trouble, and was expecting to see them disappear. Maybe Ford is the infusion of new cash they needed. I wonder how many new proprietary cloud solutions will be announced. It would be great to formally hear that Amazon Echo is being sold in Canada. Every time I hear about another cloud hosted service I just barf a little bit more in my mouth. I really can't wait for this fad to die off . . . Its right up there with the rat tail, mullet, and baggy pants idiots walking around town wear. Quote
gregf Posted January 5, 2016 Author Posted January 5, 2016 I've been watching this market for many years, since x10 came out actually. Waiting for what I thought was the ideal solution. * Local network, able to use the Internet if desired but not required * Multiple user device vendor support * Flexible, programmable, with a published api, able to do what I want not what the vendor dictates. * Vendor participation on a support forum, and responsive to user requests. * If an Internet portal if available, must be subscription based, not free. Free service is not sustainable, and is just a Ponzi scheme in my opinion. (see also Logitech Squeezebox, Chumby, not HA but you get the idea). But it must be an option not a requirement. Every year I have read the announcements, and said that's interesting but not it. Every year I have come back to one answer, yep UD. Quote
mwester Posted January 5, 2016 Posted January 5, 2016 Reality isn't sexy. Hence I don't pay too much attention to CES - it's all about "marketing sizzle" sorts of things, rather than a forum for practical, day-to-day-useful products. Expensive toys, mostly. Quote
Scottmichaelj Posted January 5, 2016 Posted January 5, 2016 (edited) It would be great to formally hear that Amazon Echo is being sold in Canada. Every time I hear about another cloud hosted service I just barf a little bit more in my mouth. I really can't wait for this fad to die off . . . Its right up there with the rat tail, mullet, and baggy pants idiots walking around town wear. Teken Im just gonna leave this here. Feel free to use as your new avatar Edited January 5, 2016 by huddadudda Quote
Guest Digger Posted January 6, 2016 Posted January 6, 2016 Lmao Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote
Teken Posted January 6, 2016 Posted January 6, 2016 Teken Im just gonna leave this here. Feel free to use as your new avatar ImageUploadedByTapatalk1452037151.670343.jpg LMAO . . . Well played my friend, well played . . . I must be going through Man o Pause or something as things just seem to really piss me off lately! I read a similar article about HaLow in another technology forum I am a member of. It seems the last five years this whole WiFi has really spun up and people really want to see huge throughput via wireless. What I would really like to see from all vendors is base HA protocol that everyone can agree upon. It always surprises me to see all of these nobody to start up companies to super large ones all integrating multi radio's. Yet the devices we all use simply don't and it really pains me to see this. When you have $50 - 90 device from Smartthings, Wink, etc all incorporate Z-Wave, ZigBee, WiFi, BLE. It really makes me wonder how the landscape for 2016 and beyond will look like. Its been stated a few times that Apple intends to make a concerted effort and push in 2016 for the Apple Home Kit. I have not seen any movement from anyone in the AllJoyn, Thread, what ever make believe protocol some mega company is looking to pander to the stupid. All I know is from walking around in a few super sized electronic stores is junk, fads, and half baked ideas really do sell! The amount of utter sh^t I have seen being carried by these retailers only affirms the sheep are plentiful in the world. What I do know is lots of people will have tons of paper weights in their homes in the not too distant future. Ha . . . Quote
Scottmichaelj Posted January 6, 2016 Posted January 6, 2016 (edited) LMAO . . . Well played my friend, well played . . . I thought you may like that! I once was a sheep, baaa baaa... When I first got into Insteon, I purchased my ISY controller in 2006ish because it wasn't dependent on the cloud. I think it was you Teken, but could be wrong, that said "Apps today are like having multiple remotes on the coffee table" and I believe this is more today than ever. I personally won't buy a device (outside my Amazon Echos) that are controlled only by the cloud and don't have an API available. When my family or friends talk about this stuff I do my best to educate them, giving them things to "think about". If I recall correctly in another thread post (one of the Apple Homekit threads perhaps), we got into a discussion about a "standard" HA protocol before. For whatever reason I thought IoT (Internet of things) was supposed to be just that but I was mistaken it is another attempt at yet another protocol. The issue I see with all these "HA" app/cloud products is they are mostly half baked and in turn never progress outside of a "hobby" for the industry until there is a standard that all companies can design for. People will get burned by XYZ HA device and then turn their noses up at it. Problem becomes companies say "why make a better switch when we can make our own switch"? Then businesses can sell and profit on "something different/better", even if its not. Which I think we are seeing now, not gaining the HA industry further down the road just more companies comping at the bit to take peoples money in the HA space. EDIT: OK so FORD is now starting to fragment the HA space. Edited January 6, 2016 by huddadudda Quote
Scottmichaelj Posted January 6, 2016 Posted January 6, 2016 (edited) "HaLow" announced - "An interesting new WiFi standard aimed at smarthome devices." http://www.theverge.com/2016/1/4/10691400/new-wifi-halow-standard-announced-iot-ces-2016 Amazon Echo specific 2016 CES Announcements: Ford announces big partnership at CES with Amazon http://www.autoblog.com/2016/01/05/ford-amazon-ces/ Talk to Your Vivint Smart Home With Amazon Echo http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2497466,00.asp Amazon Echo’s App Ecosystem Momentum http://www.pymnts.com/news/2016/amazon-echos-app-ecosystem-momentum/ Ooma Enables Free Calling with Amazon Echo http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20160105005511/en/Ooma-Enables-Free-Calling-Amazon-Echo Alarm.com's smart security setup adds Apple TV app, Amazon Echo controls http://www.cnet.com/news/control-your-alarm-com-smart-security-setup-through-apple-tv-and-amazon-echo-ces-2016/ Nexia syncs with Amazon Echo for voice-activated smart home control http://www.cnet.com/news/nexia-syncs-with-amazon-echo-for-voice-activated-smart-home-control-ces-2016/ EDIT: Added 01/06/16 Triby connected speaker, with Alexa inside, coming this Spring http://www.slashgear.com/triby-connected-speaker-with-alexa-inside-coming-this-spring-04421108/ 'Alexa, where are my keys?' TrackR syncs with Amazon Echo to help you find your stuff http://www.cnet.com/news/alexa-where-are-my-keys-trackr-syncs-with-amazon-echo-to-help-you-find-your-stuff/ The newest smart fan from Big *** Solutions is the most affordable one yet http://www.cnet.com/products/big-***-solutions-haiku-l-series-ceiling-fan/ Samsung Family Hub Refrigerator (maybe) http://www.cnet.com/pictures/alexa-learned-a-bunch-of-new-tricks-at-ces-2016-pictures/8/ Edited January 6, 2016 by huddadudda Quote
Scottmichaelj Posted January 6, 2016 Posted January 6, 2016 Here is Cnets "Smarthome" blog page for full details of all CES announcements http://www.cnet.com/topics/smart-home/ Quote
Scottmichaelj Posted January 6, 2016 Posted January 6, 2016 I am not going to start a new thread but: Ouch, Xfinity’s security system has major flaws that open your home to thieves: http://wrd.cm/1ZMIa1i Quote
Teken Posted January 6, 2016 Posted January 6, 2016 I am not going to start a new thread but: Ouch, Xfinity’s security system has major flaws that open your home to thieves: http://wrd.cm/1ZMIa1i I don't even know where to begin my rant because it would fill this page for 35 years if I started. Firstly, this high lights the key problem with any wireless security system which is from broad spectrum jamming. Next, none of the major security alarm companies use the 2.4 Ghz frequency for communications, none. I stress real and reputable security alarm companies . . . Couple this with the bold face lie from Comcast who's Charlie Douglas is a complete imbecile in every way in stating this is a industry wide problem. Wrong, that is nothing but a bold face lie from a incompetent fool who is just a pencil pusher with no first hand experience, knowledge, or common sense. The problem is his companies misuse of technology, in this case ZigBee. Its also his cheap aszz companies failing to follow basic UL / cUL security guidelines. If anyone believe this piece of junk would ever be installed into a commercial space, bank, hospital, police, military installation is smoking something really good. Lastly, the pervasive nature of these toy like alarm systems which simply sit on your counter is laughable. If you're too stupid to even call up a professional alarm company and decide to buy one of these table top items. You deserve to be broken into and have all your possession taken away . . . This is right up there with everyone who insists upon buying those $200 - 500.XX smart locks?!??! Let me see if I fully understand the premise of buying said lock. Its supposed to protect the home and occupants from a breach! But wait for it what has 99% of the population done to address the door frame, door jamb, and door? Nothing . . . Yet they believe a door, which more than 48% of the population have glass sides straddled on either side or better yet have an entire center door made of glass is going to protect them against a breach!?!? What's the word I'm looking for? Dumb? Silly? Stupid? Moronic? Everyone is willing to part hard earned money each and every day on things that simply offer no protection besides in their head. For most security is a lifestyle which embodies basic principles which are the 4 rings of security. Many never get past the first ring and that is the idea . . . As I've stated probably too many times this month on this forum and others. The trend of stupid is so pervasive and abundant that at this point it simply can't be stopped. Everyday I look out and see endless streams of people who have no clue what is going on in the world. Face firmly planted at the smartphone while crossing the road on a green light. I wonder how come fate just doesn't take these fools away and make them a smudge in the ground?!?! Oh I forgot, people often like to tell me God said, *The meek shall inherit the earth!* Quote
Scottmichaelj Posted January 6, 2016 Posted January 6, 2016 (edited) I don't even know where to begin my rant because it would fill this page for 35 years if I started. Firstly, this high lights the key problem with any wireless security system which is from broad spectrum jamming. Next, none of the major security alarm companies use the 2.4 Ghz frequency for communications, none. I stress real and reputable security alarm companies . . . Couple this with the bold face lie from Comcast who's Charlie Douglas is a complete imbecile in every way in stating this is a industry wide problem. Wrong, that is nothing but a bold face lie from a incompetent fool who is just a pencil pusher with no first hand experience, knowledge, or common sense. The problem is his companies misuse of technology, in this case ZigBee. Its also his cheap aszz companies failing to follow basic UL / cUL security guidelines. If anyone believe this piece of junk would ever be installed into a commercial space, bank, hospital, police, military installation is smoking something really good. Lastly, the pervasive nature of these toy like alarm systems which simply sit on your counter is laughable. If you're too stupid to even call up a professional alarm company and decide to buy one of these table top items. You deserve to be broken into and have all your possession taken away . . . This is right up there with everyone who insists upon buying those $200 - 500.XX smart locks?!??! Let me see if I fully understand the premise of buying said lock. Its supposed to protect the home and occupants from a breach! But wait for it what has 99% of the population done to address the door frame, door jamb, and door? Nothing . . . Yet they believe a door, which more than 48% of the population have glass sides straddled on either side or better yet have an entire center door made of glass is going to protect them against a breach!?!? What's the word I'm looking for? Dumb? Silly? Stupid? Moronic? Everyone is willing to part hard earned money each and every day on things that simply offer no protection besides in their head. For most security is a lifestyle which embodies basic principles which are the 4 rings of security. Many never get past the first ring and that is the idea . . . As I've stated probably too many times this month on this forum and others. The trend of stupid is so pervasive and abundant that at this point it simply can't be stopped. Everyday I look out and see endless streams of people who have no clue what is going on in the world. Face firmly planted at the smartphone while crossing the road on a green light. I wonder how come fate just doesn't take these fools away and make them a smudge in the ground?!?! Oh I forgot, people often like to tell me God said, *The meek shall inherit the earth!* Agree the response was lame and only after being forced to. Not sure what if any "industry wide" alarm systems use 2.4ghz (not do I care) but at least send a quick patch out and then figure out a better course of action to make sure it indeed fixes it. Otherwise it would seem as this would be leaving them open to liability claims? But Im not a lawyer I just play one on the internet. Regardless this raises the question what do you think about Elks two way 900mhz freq hopping? Their wireless products are UL certified. Although you and I seem to always take these threads off topic! Edit: Poor grammar. Edited January 6, 2016 by huddadudda Quote
Teken Posted January 6, 2016 Posted January 6, 2016 Agree the response was lame and only after being forced to. Not sure what if any "industry wide" alarm systems use 2.4ghz (not do I care) but at least send a quick patch out and then figure out a better course of action to make sure it indeed fixes it. Otherwise it would seem as this would be leaving them open to liability claims? Regardless this raises the question what do you think about Elks two way 900mhz freq hopping? Their wireless products are UL certified. Although you and I seem to always take these threads off topic! Edit: Poor grammar. ELK has a large following from the DIY crowd and for many meets their needs. The reality is this device is old and has been around for a long time and is based on 1990 technology. Which only recently has seen minor technology updates do to need not want. Their system meets the *minimum* UL security standards which there are many. As you see the Comcast toy alarm also meets the basic entry level of UL does that mean its a good product? There are building codes all across North America and one only needs to watch Holmes on Homes to know standards are the minimum and there are plenty of ways to screw up and still meet code. Specifically with Comcasts little toy the most basic attribute of wireless RF is polling. Their toy did not follow what is a industry wide accepted standard which is to default to a open state should a sensor drop out. One is fail secure while the other is fail safe and is based on the premise that everything is assumed to be not working unless told otherwise. They decided to go the other way and that is to assume all is well unless told otherwise, wrong! RF jamming detection is basic in all enterprise, military, security alarm systems. Couple with two way communications, signal strength, tamper, battery level, install time, up time, and auto temperature compensation during POST and operations. No matter the type of RF frequency or band being used its vulnerable to jamming. This is why hard wiring is mandatory in all installations that are UL / cUL 2050 certified sites. The last time I checked the ELK system was not past or certified for EN50131 standards which are much higher than North America. Consider the different appliances using the 900 mhz band like baby monitors?!?! Walky Talkies, and lots of random toys like RC cars . . . Really, 900 mhz even my GDO uses a more secure and less crowded bandwidth so this makes me take great pause. Then again you're talking about a company that hasn't innovated anything in 20 years! As I have stated here and many other places there isn't one enterprise, bank, police, hospital, military, etc that has or will ever install an ELK security system, ever . . . People have to ask the basic question of why that is? How come something that has so much HA capability and other connectivity not be used around the world in every industry? Simple, it doesn't meet the next level of UL / cUL security guidelines or has the capability to react in a manner that allows it to do so. Here is a perfect example of such, no other 3rd party device shall be allowed to have command and control of a certified UL / cUL alarm system, ever . . . So all those people who have the ELK module from UDI have already voided any possibility of being certified or meeting the most basic security standard. Ultimately many see value in having these systems in place and I can see why. But people should never lose sight as to why, what, and how its done. Quote
stusviews Posted January 6, 2016 Posted January 6, 2016 Let me see if I fully understand the premise of buying said lock. Its supposed to protect the home and occupants from a breach! But wait for it what has 99% of the population done to address the door frame, door jamb, and door? Nothing . . . Yet they believe a door, which more than 48% of the population have glass sides straddled on either side or better yet have an entire center door made of glass is going to protect them against a breach!?!? What's the word I'm looking for? I address my comment specifically to a remote controlled door lock. You premise is incorrect. Most people install such locks for convenience, not protection. And those who don't address the door frame, door jamb, and door do not differ between those who install a remote controlled and and those who don't. I actually suspect that those who choose such a lock are more likely to pay attention to the door, most especially if they install the lock themselves. But, that doesn't affect the primary purpose among those who install a remote controlled lock--creature comfort. That includes basing HA activity on the state of the lock or even knowing when your teen came home. I use an ISY controllable lock because I frequently forget to lock the side door, but I always press the Front Off button. Now the Front Off button locks the lock And control of such locks is rapidly becoming more secure. I'm referring to the security of the lock, not the structure of the building or door structure. Quote
Teken Posted January 6, 2016 Posted January 6, 2016 I address my comment specifically to a remote controlled door lock. You premise is incorrect. Most people install such locks for convenience, not protection. And those who don't address the door frame, door jamb, and door do not differ between those who install a remote controlled and and those who don't. I actually suspect that those who choose such a lock are more likely to pay attention to the door, most especially if they install the lock themselves. But, that doesn't affect the primary purpose among those who install a remote controlled lock--creature comfort. That includes basing HA activity on the state of the lock or even knowing when your teen came home. I use an ISY controllable lock because I frequently forget to lock the side door, but I always press the Front Off button. Now the Front Off button locks the lock And control of such locks is rapidly becoming more secure. I'm referring to the security of the lock, not the structure of the building or door structure. Yes, no doubt the majority of people install and use these smart locks for convenience and security is very much a secondary thought. I see value and proper use cases say in a building where you can set temporary entry, schedules, and revoke said access. Trust me I get it . . . It doesn't supersede the need to be honest and factual that said lock isn't by itself going to offer you more security. More so it will more than likely place a person into a false sense of security. We all get life is about balance and considering risk vs rewards my comments are strictly focused on calling out the liabilities and dangers in using these devices with out fully understanding the outcome. As I sit here I should really append to my signature that my comments are not addressed to those in this forum or others. More over they are commentary of the facts and best practices that other should be aware of and follow. Sometimes I think huddadudda and I just like to take a good thread and swing it completely left field and just rant. LOL . . . To the OP I apologize for taking this thread so far left field. Anyways smart locks have lots of benefits and use cases which I am fond of. But, none of that convenience has swayed me in the least in using them at the primary entrance doors vs simply following best practices and common sense. Quote
jerlands Posted January 6, 2016 Posted January 6, 2016 I address my comment specifically to a remote controlled door lock. You premise is incorrect. Most people install such locks for convenience, not protection. And those who don't address the door frame, door jamb, and door do not differ between those who install a remote controlled and and those who don't. I actually suspect that those who choose such a lock are more likely to pay attention to the door, most especially if they install the lock themselves. But, that doesn't affect the primary purpose among those who install a remote controlled lock--creature comfort. That includes basing HA activity on the state of the lock or even knowing when your teen came home. I use an ISY controllable lock because I frequently forget to lock the side door, but I always press the Front Off button. Now the Front Off button locks the lock And control of such locks is rapidly becoming more secure. I'm referring to the security of the lock, not the structure of the building or door structure. I think remote controlled door locks are an eyesore and for that reason alone have no interest in one aside from the bother of having to replace the batteries at regular intervals (and ya have to carry a key around anyway when they do die in order to get back in.) Jon.. Quote
lilyoyo1 Posted January 6, 2016 Posted January 6, 2016 I address my comment specifically to a remote controlled door lock. You premise is incorrect. Most people install such locks for convenience, not protection. And those who don't address the door frame, door jamb, and door do not differ between those who install a remote controlled and and those who don't. I actually suspect that those who choose such a lock are more likely to pay attention to the door, most especially if they install the lock themselves. But, that doesn't affect the primary purpose among those who install a remote controlled lock--creature comfort. That includes basing HA activity on the state of the lock or even knowing when your teen came home. I use an ISY controllable lock because I frequently forget to lock the side door, but I always press the Front Off button. Now the Front Off button locks the lock And control of such locks is rapidly becoming more secure. I'm referring to the security of the lock, not the structure of the building or door structure. I would have to agree with Stusviews on this one. Whether you use an electronic lock or a regular lock does not change the nature of the door itself. It is about the convenience that it offers. This could apply to the ELK or any other alarm system as well really. Is it perfect. Far from it. However the convenience that it gives as well as the peace of mind it gives when it comes to alerting for the avg. burglar suits the needs of most people. Especially when you add the convenience of integration with your HA system. For those who want a fort knox clone, None of this stuff should go in their home. Yes you can lock your home down as tight as technology and money allows...And the right thief will still break in and steal your stuff (banks and museums get robbed every day). Most systems are designed to deter the crack head, teen, common thief. The cat burglar who knows how to truly break into a secure place will not be deterred regardless of system. They will figure out a way. At that point, I hope you have Insurance. Quote
Teken Posted January 6, 2016 Posted January 6, 2016 (edited) I am sure people can come up with 999999999999999 reasons why a smart lock works for them. I get it trust me but it doesn't sway me in the least regardless of all the bells and whistles someone throws my way. I have yet to see one smart lock operate in the cold north at all. I'm not even talking about -45'C weather we are talking about everyday common -20'C. None of these locks will operate at these temperatures and Schlag, Kwickset, it doesn't matter what brand you call out. None of them will operate very long in sub zero temperatures which has been well documented by all the major vendors. I can't see that being very helpful to the average guy who like Jon said has to carry a key anyways just in case. Anyone who has ever taken even a small amount of surfing can attest how laughable some of these smart locks from companies like Kwickset with their magical rekey method is easily defeated and broken into. People should not confuse what is involved in a grade 1 lock set which has absolutely nothing to do with it actually operating. Read what I just said and say that one more time aloud. A grade 1 residential rating has no baring on how the lock operates simply that is passes impact tests based on various standards. What good is a lock set that isn't usable or reliable in all weather conditions or can be circumvented when a high charge is presented? If anyone is curious what will happen to a smart lock of almost any variety on the market take a 12 volt car battery and put jumper cables to the lock and see what happens. LOL . . . You may be surprised what position the lock will be when it goes poof! Edited January 6, 2016 by Teken Quote
Scottmichaelj Posted January 6, 2016 Posted January 6, 2016 Trust me I get it . . . It doesn't supersede the need to be honest and factual that said lock isn't by itself going to offer you more security. More so it will more than likely place a person into a false sense of security. We all get life is about balance and considering risk vs rewards my comments are strictly focused on calling out the liabilities and dangers in using these devices with out fully understanding the outcome. As I sit here I should really append to my signature that my comments are not addressed to those in this forum or others. More over they are commentary of the facts and best practices that other should be aware of and follow. Sometimes I think huddadudda and I just like to take a good thread and swing it completely left field and just rant. LOL . . . To the OP I apologize for taking this thread so far left field. Yes Teken we do seem to take things off topic but as we agreed before, a thread is a discussion starter and where that takes us is half the fun, which for us seems to happen a lot. Being a FPS and in the industry of defense/security you bring up valid points that I don't think many disagree with, but maybe seen as extreme. As you say though its risk vs reward, what works for you may not work for me. This is a personal subject for everyone individually evaluate and decide whats best for them and their family. Taken I agree with you that most people have a false sense of security with an alarm. I would say half the people don't even use an alarm properly. Whats even more "idiotic" is those people who answer the door not knowing who is on the other side and their intent. Most home invasions are from people knocking on the door and pushing themselves right into the house. How do you stop them now? These things can't be 100% prevented but we can take actions for them to be greatly reduced. Things I personally do is never open the front door unless I am expecting someone. If I do open the door to go get my outside mail or take out the trashcan I bring my key fob to the alarm system so I can use the panic mode if needed. When coming home at night I make sure when I am in the garage I promptly shut the garage door and have my key fob ready incase I missed someone trying to come in. I know this even to many may seem like "paranoia" but I feel these things can open up opportunities and its easy enough to make sure I have the key fob in my hand so that if something was to happen I hopefully minimize my outcome. I am not going to proclaim this is going to stop, deter, or save my life, but its something which is better than nothing. Most of the time once the alarm starts to go off the attacker will run. I am not going to speak for everyone here but FOR ME PERSONALLY an "alarm" system is just that "an alarm" to let you know someone has violated your space. In no way do I believe an alarm system is going to protect my life. If the fire "alarm" goes off what do you do? Protect yourself by leaving. The same should be said for security. You need to have a plan to protect you and your families life. For some that includes other methods like a gun. Sure we could all fortify our doors and windows but then there would be other areas less safe that could be violated. You can go down the rabbit hole quite quickly with this. You said it before if a thief wants your stuff he will get it. While my home is protected with an alarm its also protected with insurance. I say this to people all the time, and I truly mean it, at the end of the day there is nothing in my home I can't live without and replace besides my family. I have insurance, and wait for it...my important data is backed up in the cloud. If you have precious one off items that are irreplaceable, put it in a bank vault. This also means sitting down with an insurance agent to make sure your belongings are properly covered and at the very least take pictures of your belongings. I would say most people don't even think about this! I have seen it first hand. Most insurance companies have limits on certain items, and in this day and age where most people add more crap into their home each and every day, they don't really realize how much "important stuff" they have until its lost and too late. So in summary Alarm Systems are not an end all period not matter how strong and you must protect yourself. Make sure you have insurance, take pictures of your crap, and for irreplaceable items take steps you deem appropriate enough to protect them. Quote
Teken Posted January 6, 2016 Posted January 6, 2016 (edited) Yes Teken we do seem to take things off topic but as we agreed before, a thread is a discussion starter and where that takes us is half the fun, which for us seems to happen a lot. Being a FPS and in the industry of defense/security you bring up valid points that I don't think many disagree with, but maybe seen as extreme. As you say though its risk vs reward, what works for you may not work for me. This is a personal subject for everyone individually evaluate and decide whats best for them and their family. Taken I agree with you that most people have a false sense of security with an alarm. I would say half the people don't even use an alarm properly. Whats even more "idiotic" is those people who answer the door not knowing who is on the other side and their intent. Most home invasions are from people knocking on the door and pushing themselves right into the house. How do you stop them now? These things can't be 100% prevented but we can take actions for them to be greatly reduced. Things I personally do is never open the front door unless I am expecting someone. If I do open the door to go get my outside mail or take out the trashcan I bring my key fob to the alarm system so I can use the panic mode if needed. When coming home at night I make sure when I am in the garage I promptly shut the garage door and have my key fob ready incase I missed someone trying to come in. I know this even to many may seem like "paranoia" but I feel these things can open up opportunities and its easy enough to make sure I have the key fob in my hand so that if something was to happen I hopefully minimize my outcome. I am not going to proclaim this is going to stop, deter, or save my life, but its something which is better than nothing. Most of the time once the alarm starts to go off the attacker will run. I am not going to speak for everyone here but FOR ME PERSONALLY an "alarm" system is just that "an alarm" to let you know someone has violated your space. In no way do I believe an alarm system is going to protect my life. If the fire "alarm" goes off what do you do? Protect yourself by leaving. The same should be said for security. You need to have a plan to protect you and your families life. For some that includes other methods like a gun. Sure we could all fortify our doors and windows but then there would be other areas less safe that could be violated. You can go down the rabbit hole quite quickly with this. You said it before if a thief wants your stuff he will get it. While my home is protected with an alarm its also protected with insurance. I say this to people all the time, and I truly mean it, at the end of the day there is nothing in my home I can't live without and replace besides my family. I have insurance, and wait for it...my important data is backed up in the cloud. If you have precious one off items that are irreplaceable, put it in a bank vault. This also means sitting down with an insurance agent to make sure your belongings are properly covered and at the very least take pictures of your belongings. I would say most people don't even think about this! I have seen it first hand. Most insurance companies have limits on certain items, and in this day and age where most people add more crap into their home each and every day, they don't really realize how much "important stuff" they have until its lost and too late. So in summary Alarm Systems are not an end all period not matter how strong and you must protect yourself. Make sure you have insurance, take pictures of your crap, and for irreplaceable items take steps you deem appropriate enough to protect them. Well said and I agree with most of the points as they are indeed based on real world facts and behaviors. In the future I should really try to temper my replies as I know many who read my writing have no clue who I am or what my back ground was. The key thing I believe people have to take away is use common sense . . . More people have been harmed and died due to the lack of common sense or the ability to get out of wet paper bag. Life is absolutely about balance, risk vs reward, costs and ROI. When I read thousands of forum posts about people who say *Hey I got this great alarm system, lock, widget* now I am safe! Really?!??! You weren't safe before and now some noise maker is going to magically offer you force protection? The opposite is true to the security nut or those who arm themselves where ever they go. I have lots of family and friends who live in the United States and some of them are truly off their rocker . . . If you believe you need to carry a fire arm into Walmart because you fear you will be attacked you really need to consider where you live. When I am sitting on the bleachers with my cousins in Texas watching a kids baseball game and all of them are strapped wearing a 9 mm I have to take pause and wonder. Why do you live here if you fear for your life and need to have a gun strapped to your side? As we both agree its easy to go into any extreme and freely admit I have fallen into this trap before. But that is why its called experience and knowledge as you get wiser you understand things need to be done in moderation. Its safe to say that is essentially what life is all about . . . Back on topic: I am looking forward to see what advancements are on the horizon for the smart glass. Thus far nothing has come out of this technology which was published three years ago. Like you I see so many flash in the pan fads that on the surface had legs but for what ever reason simply did not take off or have the backing of others. USB Type C is starting to gain traction and that is good to see so long as people don't start to follow the iSheep method. Because Apple has been well known to champion the latest and greatest technology but do so in a manner that does nothing beneficial to the end user besides lighten their wallets. I am so eager to see if anyone will in fact make memory cheaper and more reliable for the masses. Given in 2016 we have literally broken every barrier with respect to efficiency and being able to make things smaller. It never ceases to amaze me to see key items that simply don't go down in price. I suppose this is very much like gas where its simply being regulated and back door deals are present which many of these companies have been found out and fined by various agencies. Lastly, I would like to see a concerted effort on free air charging which not surprisingly Apple is hard at work in this area. The current free air charging distance is in excess of 25 feet. The only down side is its not possible to offer this sort of technology that won't cause massive interference in a home. Perhaps they will figure it out by 2020 . . . Edited January 7, 2016 by Teken Quote
stusviews Posted January 6, 2016 Posted January 6, 2016 I'm not even talking about -45'C weather we are talking about everyday common -20'C. None of these locks will operate at these temperatures and Schlag, Kwickset, it doesn't matter what brand you call out. None of them will operate very long in sub zero temperatures which has been well documented by all the major vendors. I can't see that being very helpful to the average guy who like Jon said has to carry a key anyways just in case. The average guy like Jon doesn't live where it's that cold for that long. Anyone who has ever taken even a small amount of surfing ... Anyone who has surfed usually lives in a warmer climate Quote
jerlands Posted January 6, 2016 Posted January 6, 2016 Its safe to say that is essentially what life is all about . . . Yes, I would say that survival is what life is all about.. question is.. what does that entail? Seems obvious we're within an evolving sphere with a beginning and I suspect an end so what's the importance of all that which occurs in the middle Jon... Quote
lilyoyo1 Posted January 7, 2016 Posted January 7, 2016 I am sure people can come up with 999999999999999 reasons why a smart lock works for them. I get it trust me but it doesn't sway me in the least regardless of all the bells and whistles someone throws my way. I have yet to see one smart lock operate in the cold north at all. I'm not even talking about -45'C weather we are talking about everyday common -20'C. None of these locks will operate at these temperatures and Schlag, Kwickset, it doesn't matter what brand you call out. None of them will operate very long in sub zero temperatures which has been well documented by all the major vendors. I can't see that being very helpful to the average guy who like Jon said has to carry a key anyways just in case. Anyone who has ever taken even a small amount of surfing can attest how laughable some of these smart locks from companies like Kwickset with their magical rekey method is easily defeated and broken into. At that temperature, I would say your definitely living in the wrong area. lol Quote
Teken Posted January 7, 2016 Posted January 7, 2016 At that temperature, I would say your definitely living in the wrong area. lol LOL, no argument. Quote
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