justin.cool Posted January 13, 2016 Posted January 13, 2016 ALL ON / ALL OFF Incidents Configuration Jan 2016 ISY 994i/IR Pro Firmware: v.4.2.18, UI is the same. PLM: 2413SApproximately 120 Insteon devices: · Mainly Switchlincs, Lamplincs, Outletlincs, On/Off Adapters, etc etc10 KPL’s – about 15% are dual band unitsTriggerlincs (2)RemoteLincs (3)RemoteLinc2 (4)Controllincs (2)Access Points (4) – 2 on each phase from each subpanelDualband LampLinc dimmers (4)Dual Band 240V load controller (2) (Normal Open, dual band)Signal Linc (2)Venstar Thermostats (3) with V2 RF interfaceEZRain/EZFlora Irrigation Controller v.92 House is about 4000 sq feet, two floors, but spread out. · Two primary subpanels, one secondary. Secondary is dedicated to dryer, pool filter and water feature, and some outdoor outlets on the patio. · Both primary panels each have a signal linc installed in the panels. · Both primary panels have Leviton 51110-1 120/240 120/240 Volt Single-Phase Panel surge protectors. · All power strips in use in the house are either filtered via X-10 Pro 20 A in line or 15A plug in filters, or do NOT have any surge suppression or noise filtering. · No UPS in the system. · Numerous other devices are filtered via one of the above or a simple X-10 5A plug in filter or a leviton in line 5A filter. Further Notes · All thermostat dongles (T1, T2 and T3) are Rev 2.2R · Multiple Sonos components, 3 Play 1 units, 1 Play 3, 1 Play 5, 1 Connect, 2 Bridge units, and a SoundBar. · DirecTV with Whole Home Network Apr / May / Jun of 2015 I experienced several ALL OFF incidents with my ISY-994. Per guidance at the time, I removed all CONTROL conditions in my programs, except ONE. The single CONTROL condition mentioned above is in a program folder that is set to ON NEVER from October through March of each year. Thus, it should not have been executable after October. In addition, it does not violate the recommendations that came out at that time: You don't have any programs that use Control for a device and the send a Scene command to a scene which includes the same physical device. So different buttons from the same KPL are considered one device Don't Use a Control for a device which is already a Controller for some Scene. NO more ALL ON’s or ALL OFF issues until Dec 2015 / Jan 2016. ALL ON Incidents 1 Jan 2016 11 Jan 2016 ALL OFF incidents 7 Jan 2016 8 Jan 2016 At least a sometimes common pre-cursor (1 minute or so prior to the ALL ON/ALL OFF incident) to these incidents is when the garage door IO Linc sensor / Scene is triggered due to the garage door being opened. I am now at a loss…..have not found any other tips to prevent this from happening. Do I just need to get the latest download???? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated…… Justin in Dallas
Teken Posted January 13, 2016 Posted January 13, 2016 I don't see any MS listed in your Insteon set up? Ideals are peaceful - History is violent
dstanley Posted January 13, 2016 Posted January 13, 2016 At least a sometimes common pre-cursor (1 minute or so prior to the ALL ON/ALL OFF incident) to these incidents is when the garage door IO Linc sensor / Scene is triggered due to the garage door being opened. All of my ALL ON scenarios were caused by my garage door IO Linc units in my opinion - just as you have determined in your case. I have experienced at least 3 ALL ON events since using the 'test PLM' supplied by UDI which was thought to remove the All On command from the PLM coding. I am going to save up my money and replace my two Insteon IO-Linc modules in my garage doors with Z-Wave units to try to remove this problem from my system - unfortunately this is about a $300 'fix' that I was not really prepared to do. I will need to use two of these units: (plus shipping plus tax) https://www.aartech.ca/product/00/GD00Z-4/Linear-Zwave-Garage-Door-Controller-With-Visual-and-Audible-Closing-Alert I had suspected a nearby motion sensor (Foyer) to also contribute to my ALL ONS but that was completely removed from my system a long time ago and I still had these events occur after it's removal. Keep us informed of any progress in your situation - hopefully someone will come up with a permanent solution - other than removing Insteon from our homes! Dwight
justin.cool Posted January 13, 2016 Author Posted January 13, 2016 Teken, At the risk of sounding like more of a "Newby" than I think I am, what is MS? dstanley, Thank you for your note. I am not willing to consider investing any more $$$ in work arounds for what I believe is poor design by Insteon. Bottom line, ......my frustration with the whole system of products from Insteon is beyond words. I have been at it since 2008, had most of the comms issues resolved in 2010, then in the last 2 years things have really gone down hill. But I will save that write up for another time when I can gather all the facts, remove the emotion caused by my frustration, and put it down in one post.
LeeG Posted January 13, 2016 Posted January 13, 2016 MS is for Insteon battery powered Motion Sensor. The Motion Sensor sends multiple copies of the motion messages using RF. It has been found that these messages may overlap other Insteon traffic forming an All On and less frequently All Off message. The latest PLM has firmware change to prevent the overlap from forming an All xxx as well as some of the newest devices no longer respond to All xxx.
justin.cool Posted January 13, 2016 Author Posted January 13, 2016 I do not have any motion sensors in the system.
LeeG Posted January 13, 2016 Posted January 13, 2016 No, but you have several battery powered RF only devices, RemoteLinc, RemoteLinc 2, TriggerLincs. Here is message flow from TriggerLinc. Note multiple messages similar to Motion Sensor Wed 01/13/2016 10:33:09 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 31.BD.14 00.00.01 C7 11 01 LTONRR (01) Wed 01/13/2016 10:33:09 AM : [std-Group ] 31.BD.14-->Group=1, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1 Wed 01/13/2016 10:33:09 AM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [31 BD 14 1] [DON] [1] uom=0 prec=-1 Wed 01/13/2016 10:33:09 AM : [ 31 BD 14 1] DON 1 Wed 01/13/2016 10:33:09 AM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [31 BD 14 1] [sT] [255] uom=0 prec=-1 Wed 01/13/2016 10:33:09 AM : [ 31 BD 14 1] ST 255 Wed 01/13/2016 10:33:09 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 31.BD.14 00.00.01 C7 11 01 LTONRR (01) Wed 01/13/2016 10:33:09 AM : [std-Group ] 31.BD.14-->Group=1, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1 Wed 01/13/2016 10:33:09 AM : [iNST-DUP ] Previous message ignored. Wed 01/13/2016 10:33:10 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 31.BD.14 22.80.0B 46 11 01 LTONRR (01) Wed 01/13/2016 10:33:10 AM : [std-Cleanup ] 31.BD.14-->ISY/PLM Group=1, Max Hops=2, Hops Left=1 Wed 01/13/2016 10:33:10 AM : [iNST-DUP ] Previous message ignored. Wed 01/13/2016 10:33:10 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 31.BD.14 22.80.0B 43 11 01 LTONRR (01) Wed 01/13/2016 10:33:10 AM : [std-Cleanup ] 31.BD.14-->ISY/PLM Group=1, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=0 Wed 01/13/2016 10:33:10 AM : [iNST-DUP ] Previous message ignored. Wed 01/13/2016 10:33:11 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 31.BD.14 11.01.01 C7 06 00 (00) Wed 01/13/2016 10:33:11 AM : [std-Group ] 31.BD.14-->11.01.01, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1 Wed 01/13/2016 10:33:11 AM : [iNST-INFO ] Previous message ignored. Wed 01/13/2016 10:33:11 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 31.BD.14 11.01.01 C7 06 00 (00) Wed 01/13/2016 10:33:11 AM : [std-Group ] 31.BD.14-->11.01.01, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1 Wed 01/13/2016 10:33:11 AM : [iNST-INFO ] Previous message ignored. Here is message flow from Motion Sensor Wed 01/13/2016 10:37:01 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 14.C1.C7 00.00.01 C7 11 01 LTONRR (01) Wed 01/13/2016 10:37:01 AM : [std-Group ] 14.C1.C7-->Group=1, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1 Wed 01/13/2016 10:37:01 AM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [14 C1 C7 1] [DON] [1] uom=0 prec=-1 Wed 01/13/2016 10:37:01 AM : [ 14 C1 C7 1] DON 1 Wed 01/13/2016 10:37:01 AM : [D2D-CMP 0075] CTL [14 C1 C7 1] DON op=1 Event(val=1 uom=0 prec=-1) is Condition(val=0 uom=0 prec=-1) --> true Wed 01/13/2016 10:37:01 AM : [D2D-CMP 006C] CTL [14 C1 C7 1] DON op=1 Event(val=1 uom=0 prec=-1) is Condition(val=0 uom=0 prec=-1) --> true Wed 01/13/2016 10:37:01 AM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [14 C1 C7 1] [sT] [255] uom=0 prec=-1 Wed 01/13/2016 10:37:01 AM : [ 14 C1 C7 1] ST 255 Wed 01/13/2016 10:37:01 AM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [14 41 95 1] [sT] [255] uom=0 prec=-1 Wed 01/13/2016 10:37:01 AM : [ 14 41 95 1] ST 255 Wed 01/13/2016 10:37:01 AM : [D2D-CMP 003B] STS [14 41 95 1] ST op=6 Event(val=255 uom=0 prec=-1) != Condition(val=0 uom=0 prec=-1) --> true Wed 01/13/2016 10:37:01 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 14.C1.C7 00.00.01 CB 11 01 LTONRR (01) Wed 01/13/2016 10:37:01 AM : [std-Group ] 14.C1.C7-->Group=1, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Wed 01/13/2016 10:37:01 AM : [iNST-DUP ] Previous message ignored. Wed 01/13/2016 10:37:01 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 14.C1.C7 22.80.0B 41 11 01 LTONRR (01) Wed 01/13/2016 10:37:01 AM : [std-Cleanup ] 14.C1.C7-->ISY/PLM Group=1, Max Hops=1, Hops Left=0 Wed 01/13/2016 10:37:01 AM : [iNST-DUP ] Previous message ignored. Wed 01/13/2016 10:37:03 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 14.B7.2A 22.80.0B 0B 6F 4E (4E) Wed 01/13/2016 10:37:03 AM : [std-Direct ] 14.B7.2A-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Wed 01/13/2016 10:37:04 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 14.C1.C7 11.03.01 CB 06 00 (00) Wed 01/13/2016 10:37:04 AM : [std-Group ] 14.C1.C7-->11.03.01, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Wed 01/13/2016 10:37:04 AM : [iNST-INFO ] Previous message ignored. Wed 01/13/2016 10:37:04 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 14.C1.C7 11.03.01 CB 06 00 (00) Wed 01/13/2016 10:37:04 AM : [std-Group ] 14.C1.C7-->11.03.01, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Wed 01/13/2016 10:37:04 AM : [iNST-INFO ] Previous message ignored.
Teken Posted January 13, 2016 Posted January 13, 2016 Hello Justin, For the benefit of others can you please state what the white sticker says for the 2413S PLM which are the production date, revision number, and ISY firmware. Next can you please affirm that you were present when all these events occurred. Followed by when you state the ALL ON / ALL OFF for example say you have ten lights in your home. That all ten lights either all came on/off? Next, did you happen to notice any of the devices not on/off? If so can you please state the model, hardware production date, revision number, and ISY firmware. Lastly, if you would please humor a fellow HA member and take any Insteon device that has ALWAYS been impacted by said ALL ON / ALL OFF. Ideally this device should not be included into a large scene and should be a stand alone device say for example a closet, walk in, etc. I want you to hard reset this single device and do nothing else. Verify that it operates in terms of manual on/off. Follow up with launching the Admin Console and report back if the Admin Console can in fact turn it on/off. Please state if it does or doesn't and wait for next steps . . . I thank you . . .
justin.cool Posted January 13, 2016 Author Posted January 13, 2016 LeeG, Thanks for your quick response.....my Triggerlinc's had to be removed as they were just not reliable. I used them to notify me when the reefer doors were left open, but they averaged 1 to 2 false alarms per week. They have been out of the system for over 2 years. But I do still have several of the RemoteLinc 2's in the system. If I understand what you are telling me...These RemoteLinc2s send duplicate messages that could cause the ALL XXX condition to occur. Given that, should I isolate all of them for now, i.e. disable or remove them from the system? But that would be for testing purposes only, right? What about the PLM...how do I get the latest firmware for that?
justin.cool Posted January 13, 2016 Author Posted January 13, 2016 Teken, I will have to get the PLM numbers when I get home later today...but I can answer some your other questions: Next can you please affirm that you were present when all these events occurred. Followed by when you state the ALL ON / ALL OFF for example say you have ten lights in your home. That all ten lights either all came on/off? I was present for all of the events. All Insteon controlled lights in the house did come on, including patio lights, patio fans, bathroom fans. However, I have so many devices, there could have been a couple of devices for table lamps, or something like that, that did not come on. But in general, virtually every light/fan is turned ON/OFF. Given that, with all of these incidents, I have noticed that my 2 phase pool filter pump and fountain pump do NOT get affected, ALL ON or ALL OFF. Further, when the ALL OFF occurs, it causes my Venter 1400 Thermostats to hang up. And they cannot be reset or fixed manually through the various buttons on the front thermostat panel. (Or at least I haven't found out any button sequence that will fix them). I have to issue a command from the ISY, or initiate a scene that sets them to COOL/HEAT, TEMP SET POINT, FAN AUTO/ON/OFF, etc etc. In order to get them back on line. Not sure what this means..... As for your other request: I want you to hard reset this single device and do nothing else. Verify that it operates in terms of manual on/off. Follow up with launching the Admin Console and report back if the Admin Console can in fact turn it on/off. I have some bathroom fans that are part of a single device scene that I can do this to......will have to be this evening. Will report back......... Justin in Dallas
LeeG Posted January 13, 2016 Posted January 13, 2016 A RemoteLinc2 message sequence is at bottom of post. Most folks have never seen an All On/Off situation including myself where I have a RemoteLinc2 used every day as well as Motion Sensors. I would not suggest removing the RemoteLinc2 from service. One of the failure sequences is for a Program to be triggered by the RF message and the Program immediately send a Scene On/Off. It is assumed the Scene On/Off overlaps a message from the battery device resulting in the All On/Off. A solution is to add a 1-2 second Wait before the Program sends the Scene message. Again, I have never been able to trace an actual event. The PLM firmware cannot be updated. The latest 2413S is hardware v2.1 with PLM firmware v.9E. It would be necessary to purchase a new PLM. Trace from RemoteLinc 2 Wed 01/13/2016 11:28:07 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 2E.ED.5D 00.00.02 CB 13 00 LTOFFRR(00) Wed 01/13/2016 11:28:07 AM : [std-Group ] 2E.ED.5D-->Group=2, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Wed 01/13/2016 11:28:07 AM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [2E ED 5D 2] [DOF] [0] uom=0 prec=-1 Wed 01/13/2016 11:28:07 AM : [ 2E ED 5D 2] DOF 0 Wed 01/13/2016 11:28:07 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 2E.ED.5D 00.00.02 CB 13 00 LTOFFRR(00) Wed 01/13/2016 11:28:07 AM : [std-Group ] 2E.ED.5D-->Group=2, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Wed 01/13/2016 11:28:07 AM : [iNST-DUP ] Previous message ignored. Wed 01/13/2016 11:28:08 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 2E.ED.5D 22.80.0B 42 13 02 LTOFFRR(02) Wed 01/13/2016 11:28:08 AM : [std-Cleanup ] 2E.ED.5D-->ISY/PLM Group=2, Max Hops=2, Hops Left=0 Wed 01/13/2016 11:28:08 AM : [iNST-DUP ] Previous message ignored. Wed 01/13/2016 11:28:08 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 2E.ED.5D 22.80.0B 47 13 02 LTOFFRR(02) Wed 01/13/2016 11:28:08 AM : [std-Cleanup ] 2E.ED.5D-->ISY/PLM Group=2, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1 Wed 01/13/2016 11:28:08 AM : [iNST-DUP ] Previous message ignored. Wed 01/13/2016 11:28:08 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 2E.ED.5D 22.80.0B 47 13 02 LTOFFRR(02) Wed 01/13/2016 11:28:08 AM : [std-Cleanup ] 2E.ED.5D-->ISY/PLM Group=2, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1 Wed 01/13/2016 11:28:08 AM : [iNST-DUP ] Previous message ignored. Wed 01/13/2016 11:28:09 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 2E.ED.5D 22.80.0B 47 13 02 LTOFFRR(02) Wed 01/13/2016 11:28:09 AM : [std-Cleanup ] 2E.ED.5D-->ISY/PLM Group=2, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1 Wed 01/13/2016 11:28:09 AM : [iNST-DUP ] Previous message ignored. Wed 01/13/2016 11:28:09 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 2E.ED.5D 22.80.0B 47 13 02 LTOFFRR(02) Wed 01/13/2016 11:28:09 AM : [std-Cleanup ] 2E.ED.5D-->ISY/PLM Group=2, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1 Wed 01/13/2016 11:28:09 AM : [iNST-DUP ] Previous message ignored.
Teken Posted January 13, 2016 Posted January 13, 2016 Teken, I will have to get the PLM numbers when I get home later today...but I can answer some your other questions: Next can you please affirm that you were present when all these events occurred. Followed by when you state the ALL ON / ALL OFF for example say you have ten lights in your home. That all ten lights either all came on/off? I was present for all of the events. All Insteon controlled lights in the house did come on, including patio lights, patio fans, bathroom fans. However, I have so many devices, there could have been a couple of devices for table lamps, or something like that, that did not come on. But in general, virtually every light/fan is turned ON/OFF. Given that, with all of these incidents, I have noticed that my 2 phase pool filter pump and fountain pump do NOT get affected, ALL ON or ALL OFF. Further, when the ALL OFF occurs, it causes my Venter 1400 Thermostats to hang up. And they cannot be reset or fixed manually through the various buttons on the front thermostat panel. (Or at least I haven't found out any button sequence that will fix them). I have to issue a command from the ISY, or initiate a scene that sets them to COOL/HEAT, TEMP SET POINT, FAN AUTO/ON/OFF, etc etc. In order to get them back on line. Not sure what this means..... As for your other request: I want you to hard reset this single device and do nothing else. Verify that it operates in terms of manual on/off. Follow up with launching the Admin Console and report back if the Admin Console can in fact turn it on/off. I have some bathroom fans that are part of a single device scene that I can do this to......will have to be this evening. Will report back......... Justin in Dallas Justin, I thank you and look forward to your next steps and feed back.
justin.cool Posted January 13, 2016 Author Posted January 13, 2016 LeeG, If I get the PowerLinc Modem - INSTEON 2413S Serial Interface (Dual-Band) from SmartHome, will that ensure the latest firmware? Will this newer PLM eliminate or just help reduce the likelihood of further ALL ON/ALL OFF incidents? Justin
larryllix Posted January 13, 2016 Posted January 13, 2016 I got a new PLM from amazon.com when they had a sale on, as version 2.0. IIRC that was December 2015?
Teken Posted January 13, 2016 Posted January 13, 2016 LeeG, If I get the PowerLinc Modem - INSTEON 2413S Serial Interface (Dual-Band) from SmartHome, will that ensure the latest firmware? Will this newer PLM eliminate or just help reduce the likelihood of further ALL ON/ALL OFF incidents? Justin Justin, There are several people here that have the latest 2413S PLM and it didn't solve the issue for them. While others have seen no other events since deploying said PLM. It really comes down to your own personal choice . . . I am of the opinion it won't solve the issue at hand but its something you can try.
LeeG Posted January 13, 2016 Posted January 13, 2016 The latest PLM firmware will be in a PLM shipping from Smarthome. If the All On/Off is happening independent of ISY Program activity I think the new PLM will resolve. If the All On/Off is happening as a result of a coincidence of the RF messages inbound to PLM and Insteon traffic outbound from a Program the symptom will likely still exist. This will be resolved when all Insteon devices have been updated to ignore All On/Off and be installed. This could take years for folks to replace every installed Insteon device. In my view it is better to go through all the Programs to see which could be causing the overlap and adjust those Programs. I always use device to device Scene On/Off which may explain why I have never seen the All On/Off here locally. Even creating test Programs with a possible overlap have not created the symptom and I am using an older 2413S with v.9B firmware. There are cases where a Motion Sensor will turn On a Responder and a Program control the Responder turn Off. This combination does not create an All On/Off, at least not here.
justin.cool Posted January 13, 2016 Author Posted January 13, 2016 Teken, Here is a complete response to your questions: For the benefit of others can you please state what the white sticker says for the 2413S PLM which are the production date, revision number, and ISY firmware. 2413S V1.B 1343 Next can you please affirm that you were present when all these events occurred. Followed by when you state the ALL ON / ALL OFF for example say you have ten lights in your home. That all ten lights either all came on/off? I was present for all of the events. All Insteon controlled lights in the house did come on, including patio lights, patio fans, bathroom fans. However, I have so many devices, there could have been a couple of devices, like table lamps for example, that did NOT come on. But in general, virtually every light/fan is turned ON/OFF. Given that, with all of these incidents, I have noticed that the following do not appear to be affected, or are affected in some unusual way: 1. My 2 phase pool filter pump and fountain pump relays are NOT affected at all, with either ALL ON or ALL OFF. Both relays are Normal Open (NO). 2. All three Venstar 1400 Thermostats hang up in the same way. The heat set point goes to “0F”, and cannot be changed. (Not sure what the cool set point goes to in summer). I have to send an ISY-994 command for Mode, setpoint, and fan, in order to clear it up. This is a real nuisance. 3. Not sure what the IOLinc’s did, either for the garage door or for a mosquito misting system I have controlled by the ISY-994. 4. I also do NOT know what my EZRain / EZ-Flora did. I have saved ISY-994 LOGS for most of the incidents. I can make them available if that would help. For the next part: Lastly, if you would please humor a fellow HA member and take any Insteon device that has ALWAYS been impacted by said ALL ON / ALL OFF. Ideally this device should not be included into a large scene and should be a stand alone device say for example a closet, walk in, etc. I want you to hard reset this single device and do nothing else. Verify that it operates in terms of manual on/off. Follow up with launching the Admin Console and report back if the Admin Console can in fact turn it on/off. · Hard reset the powder room fan, 2876SB, ICON relay, V.39, address 16.A3.A2 · This device is stand alone, it does NOT belongs to any scenes. · Verified the switch turns the fan ON/OFF manually. · Bring up ISY-994 Admin console. · Fan is OFF, Query checks out. · Turn fan ON via admin console, Query checks out. · Turn fan OFF via admin console, Query checks out. · Turn fan ON via admin console, query checks out. I performed this twice, with one slight difference. The first time, the admin console was already up and running when I did the hard reset, the second time, I “exited” the admin console, did the hard reset, verified manual operation, then brought up the admin console and went through the ON/OFF sequences. The results were the same both times. No issues observed. I will order the PLM next.....and await your response. Justin in Dallas
stusviews Posted January 14, 2016 Posted January 14, 2016 Your PLM was manufactured in late October, 2013.
Teken Posted January 14, 2016 Posted January 14, 2016 Teken, Here is a complete response to your questions: For the benefit of others can you please state what the white sticker says for the 2413S PLM which are the production date, revision number, and ISY firmware. 2413S V1.B 1343 Next can you please affirm that you were present when all these events occurred. Followed by when you state the ALL ON / ALL OFF for example say you have ten lights in your home. That all ten lights either all came on/off? I was present for all of the events. All Insteon controlled lights in the house did come on, including patio lights, patio fans, bathroom fans. However, I have so many devices, there could have been a couple of devices, like table lamps for example, that did NOT come on. But in general, virtually every light/fan is turned ON/OFF. Given that, with all of these incidents, I have noticed that the following do not appear to be affected, or are affected in some unusual way: 1. My 2 phase pool filter pump and fountain pump relays are NOT affected at all, with either ALL ON or ALL OFF. Both relays are Normal Open (NO). 2. All three Venstar 1400 Thermostats hang up in the same way. The heat set point goes to “0F”, and cannot be changed. (Not sure what the cool set point goes to in summer). I have to send an ISY-994 command for Mode, setpoint, and fan, in order to clear it up. This is a real nuisance. 3. Not sure what the IOLinc’s did, either for the garage door or for a mosquito misting system I have controlled by the ISY-994. 4. I also do NOT know what my EZRain / EZ-Flora did. I have saved ISY-994 LOGS for most of the incidents. I can make them available if that would help. For the next part: Lastly, if you would please humor a fellow HA member and take any Insteon device that has ALWAYS been impacted by said ALL ON / ALL OFF. Ideally this device should not be included into a large scene and should be a stand alone device say for example a closet, walk in, etc. I want you to hard reset this single device and do nothing else. Verify that it operates in terms of manual on/off. Follow up with launching the Admin Console and report back if the Admin Console can in fact turn it on/off. · Hard reset the powder room fan, 2876SB, ICON relay, V.39, address 16.A3.A2 · This device is stand alone, it does NOT belongs to any scenes. · Verified the switch turns the fan ON/OFF manually. · Bring up ISY-994 Admin console. · Fan is OFF, Query checks out. · Turn fan ON via admin console, Query checks out. · Turn fan OFF via admin console, Query checks out. · Turn fan ON via admin console, query checks out. I performed this twice, with one slight difference. The first time, the admin console was already up and running when I did the hard reset, the second time, I “exited” the admin console, did the hard reset, verified manual operation, then brought up the admin console and went through the ON/OFF sequences. The results were the same both times. No issues observed. I will order the PLM next.....and await your response. Justin in Dallas Hello Justin, To be clear you hard reset the icon switch. Yet the admin console is still able to control the icon switch? Please confirm the above is correct. Ideals are peaceful - History is violent
justin.cool Posted January 14, 2016 Author Posted January 14, 2016 Teken, Yes, hard reset, i.e. pull out air gap tab, wait about 10 seconds, then press it in and hold for designated period. Then it is reset. Did I misunderstand? After that, and the testing you requested, I did a restore device....... Read device links table, did a compare, all good. I also did a read device links table right after the hard reset and there was the usual all zero record, and that was it. And of course a compare showed missing records. Justin in Dallas
Teken Posted January 14, 2016 Posted January 14, 2016 Teken, Yes, hard reset, i.e. pull out air gap tab, wait about 10 seconds, then press it in and hold for designated period. Then it is reset. Did I misunderstand? After that, and the testing you requested, I did a restore device....... Read device links table, did a compare, all good. I also did a read device links table right after the hard reset and there was the usual all zero record, and that was it. And of course a compare showed missing records. Justin in Dallas Hello Justin, My apologies please simply hard reset the device. Do not perform a restore device via the admin console. Leave this device like this and confirm if the admin console can in fact control the device at that point. Please do the above thank you. Ideals are peaceful - History is violent
stusviews Posted January 14, 2016 Posted January 14, 2016 When pressing the set button in, it must be pressed all the way in until it hits bottom or the device will not factory reset.
MWareman Posted January 14, 2016 Posted January 14, 2016 A RemoteLinc2 message sequence is at bottom of post. Most folks have never seen an All On/Off situation including myself where I have a RemoteLinc2 used every day as well as Motion Sensors. I would not suggest removing the RemoteLinc2 from service. One of the failure sequences is for a Program to be triggered by the RF message and the Program immediately send a Scene On/Off. Is it common that RemoteLinc users would control a scene that also includes a KPL? What about a RemoteLinc driving a program that controls a scene (including a KPL)? That seems to be the condition that causes most issues, since the KPL button requires a scene to control it. In my case I had an ALL-ON from double-clicking a dual-band dimmer. This triggered a program that calls a scene-on (to light a KPL) and a network resource (to light or unlight a LED controller). Worked flawlessly for months then one morning I double-clicked to toggle it off and every light in the house lit up. Not a MS at all. Fortunately for me, my garage door is not Insteon - its hard wired to my Elk. Now, given that the switchlinc (in my case) was dual-band this is likely the same collision - a wireless signal colliding with a scene message driving a KPL light. MS's (and other battery devices) increase the chances, because they send multiple triggers - which the ISY usually logs but ignores. This is also why adding a delay to the program before the scene command seems to resolve it for most (its what I did, since its not noticible if the KPL is latent to the command). Not had the symptoms since - but since I only had it once I'm hardly a good test case. I don't think it's a MS specific issue though. I will say though - I have 3 MS's outside that trigger a program that flashes a device (different devices for each MS) 4 times on a motion detection. Not once has this caused an ALL-ON - but this program turns a device on and off (or off then on) several times - not a scene. So, at least anecdotally in my case it must be a scene (containing a KPL button) executed from a program that was triggered from a wireless device action. Michael.
justin.cool Posted January 14, 2016 Author Posted January 14, 2016 Teken, Redo of the above just to make sure, and following the hard reset instructions to the letter: · Hard reset the powder room fan · Verified the switch turns the fan ON/OFF manually. · Bring up ISY-994 Admin console. · Fan is OFF, Query checks out. · Turn fan ON via admin console, fan turns ON · Turn fan OFF via admin console, fan turns OFF · Turn fan ON via admin console, fan turns ON · Show Device Links Table: One (1) line / record of all zeros is displayed. · Then performed a Restore Device · Show Device Links Table: Two (2) lines / records with non-zero values · Compare to ISY Link Table: “Identical” · Turn fan ON/OFF several times via admin console, works as expected NOTE: This device is completely standalone, not part of ANY scenes. It is, however, turned OFF by an ISY-994 timer program after about 15 minutes of running. Justin in Dallas
Teken Posted January 14, 2016 Posted January 14, 2016 Teken, Redo of the above just to make sure, and following the hard reset instructions to the letter: · Hard reset the powder room fan · Verified the switch turns the fan ON/OFF manually. · Bring up ISY-994 Admin console. · Fan is OFF, Query checks out. · Turn fan ON via admin console, fan turns ON · Turn fan OFF via admin console, fan turns OFF · Turn fan ON via admin console, fan turns ON · Show Device Links Table: One (1) line / record of all zeros is displayed. · Then performed a Restore Device · Show Device Links Table: Two (2) lines / records with non-zero values · Compare to ISY Link Table: “Identical” · Turn fan ON/OFF several times via admin console, works as expected NOTE: This device is completely standalone, not part of ANY scenes. It is, however, turned OFF by an ISY-994 timer program after about 15 minutes of running. Justin in Dallas Hello Justin, You're really close but let me outline the over all intent and objective. First I would like to qualify that what ever device you select must be able to be stand alone. Meaning it should be able to operate with out the aid of a controller like the 994 Series Controller. So if its a closet, walk in, this would be ideal. Since you indicated you have a 15 minute timer this device would not be ideal for this test at all. Again, once you select a device known to be impacted by a ALL ON / ALL OFF I want you to hard reset the device. Do not perform a restore device to this hardware . . . You will confirm it still operates manually by turning it on/off if so good. Next you will simply go into the Admin Console to confirm (IF) you can still control it nothing more. Again, do not restore this device simply leave it alone . . . Moving forward should you ever see another event occur I want you to report back to the work group what the outcome was. Was it still off during a ALL ON, or was it on? Understood?
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