Michel Kohanim Posted January 6, 2009 Author Share Posted January 6, 2009 CJVann, I think there's a bit of confusion here: It is NOT the case that INSTEON devices uses the ramp rate of the last scene: 1. They use their stored/default ramp rate/on level. 2. Now, this is ONLY true if you are turning on/off the device directly. If you turn on/off the device through a scene, then the ramp rate/on level for that scene takes over. 3. If you control the device through another controller, then the ramp rate/on level for that controller-device combination takes over. 4. And, FINALLY, if you turn on/off My Lighting, then the ramp rate/on level for the FIRST ever scene of which the device is a part take over. All this said, which scenario are you referring to? With kind regards, Michel Never knowing what ramp rate you'll get when turning things on & off drives me crazy - so let me propose a possible solution... What if when creating a device in the ISY, it creates a "default scene" for the device in the background (transparent to the user). This scene would always have the same ramp-rate & on-level as the device (synchronized). When you tell ISY to turn a device on/off, it would actually call this default scene instead, thus guaranteeing the device turns on with the expected ramp rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stowaway Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 Never knowing what ramp rate you'll get when turning things on & off drives me crazy - so let me propose a possible solution... What if when creating a device in the ISY, it creates a "default scene" for the device in the background (transparent to the user). This scene would always have the same ramp-rate & on-level as the device (synchronized). When you tell ISY to turn a device on/off, it would actually call this default scene instead, thus guaranteeing the device turns on with the expected ramp rate. Hi CJ I have different ramp rates (and on levels) for the same lights which are different depending upon the scene that is being used. For example, in our family room the track lights and table lamps have a readling scene, a movie scene, and a visitors scene. These scenes can be activated by a button on the remotelinc in the family room as well as the front door KPL. Additionally, I have a timer program which turns on these lights when we are away. It took me awhile to define the scenes and the programs to achieve my desires and I still change things every week to improve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonWPB Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 Michel, Thanks for the reply. I do not get any error messages. Indeed, the "manual" sync (when I hit the "Synchronize Now" button) works fine. It did not appear to be off this morning, but I hit synchronize now and the clock jumped forward about 30 seconds -- indicating that it was, apparently, about 30 seconds slow again. Thus, it appears that my ISY is losing time for some reason. Would a power outage or surge cause this? I've changed the settings to have it automatically sync every 8 hours. I'll check it again tomorrow morning. JasonWPB, This is NOT normal at all. When you go to the configuration tab, do you get Request Failed when you try synchronizing with the NTP server? With kind regards, Michel I don't know if this has been noticed by others, but for the first time ever, I had to manually synchronize with the NTP server. My ISY had fallen about 6 minutes behind. I have the box checked for the ISY to synch every 24 hours. It isn't clear to me if the auto-sync worked or not. I noticed yesterday evening that the ISY was late by about 5 minutes in turning off lights. I didn't check the console until this morning and found it to be 6 minutes off. What would cause the ISY to get off by 5 minutes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stowaway Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 Michel, Thanks for the reply. I do not get any error messages. Indeed, the "manual" sync (when I hit the "Synchronize Now" button) works fine. It did not appear to be off this morning, but I hit synchronize now and the clock jumped forward about 30 seconds -- indicating that it was, apparently, about 30 seconds slow again. Thus, it appears that my ISY is losing time for some reason. Would a power outage or surge cause this? I've changed the settings to have it automatically sync every 8 hours. I'll check it again tomorrow morning. Jason Are you using a custom location or one of the standard locations for your ISY configuration? This happened to me with an earlier firmware release when I used a custom location. I changed to Boston and all was well after that. I have not tested a cusom location since so I don't know if this is still an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sub-Routine Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 CJVann, I think there's a bit of confusion here: It is NOT the case that INSTEON devices uses the ramp rate of the last scene: 1. They use their stored/default ramp rate/on level. That is what the Insteon specifications say, but... While I haven't bought any new devices in the last year or so ALL of my ~45 devices use the last ramp rate and not the default with direct On/Off commands. It is always reproducible. Rand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJVann Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 4. And, FINALLY, if you turn on/off My Lighting, then the ramp rate/on level for the FIRST ever scene of which the device is a part take over. All this said, which scenario are you referring to? Hi Michael - I'm referring to turning on devices with My Lighting (and I use HomeSeer to control the ISY via phone, Internet, touch screen, scripts, voice control, remotes, etc - so I use the ISY frequently) When ISY turns on a device, it turns it on using the ramp rate of whatever ISY scene you last ran. My "bedtime" scene will slowly turn off all my lights to allow time to get to the bedroom and climb in bed - but whenever ISY attempts to control any lights in My Lighting after running this scene, it will take a very long time to ramp-On any light. You have a "Locally Applied" on-level and ramp rate for each device when controlled at the switch. What if you had a ramp rate/on-level setting for each device when controlled by My Lighting? Those values would actually be the values of a scene. When you turn a device on in My Lighting, ISY would actually turn on the scene instead, so the device always turns on with the programmed on-level and ramp rate, rather than some random ramp rate based on whatever scene last ran. Just a thought... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottmichaelj Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 Has anyone noticed communication issues with .13? I upgrades from 2.6.7 and it seems my devices don't seem communicate as well as they use to and scenes sometimes miss turning on devices that I normally never had issues with. Something is sure different, I just cant seem to put my finger on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhimmel Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 Did you add any new devices? Are you using any new (recently purchased) Switchlincs? Jim H. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJVann Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 Has anyone noticed communication issues with .13?Are you using any new (recently purchased) Switchlincs? I just got several new SwitchLincs - is there something I should know before I install the rest of them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sub-Routine Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 Has anyone noticed communication issues with .13?Are you using any new (recently purchased) Switchlincs? I just got several new SwitchLincs - is there something I should know before I install the rest of them? Best to install and test one at a time. The poll is reading 7/10. Be sure to factory reset each one. I bench test every unit As far as comm issues huddadudda, no change here, everything is working great for scene control. Changes to a scene induced some invalid links in 2.6.8 - 2.6.12, but 13 and Restore Device have cured those ills. I have to echo Jim H and type look for a new GameBoy or cellphone or something as the culprit. Big screen? You could downgrade again as a test. Rand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zellarman Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 Do I need to do this upgrade in 3 steps? Do I first need to upgrade to 2.6.5, then 2.6.9 before finally 2.6.13? I'm presently having a host of issues which I'll address in more appropriate areas of this forum. I'm hoping the upgrade will at least get me headed in the correct direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FRR Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 Has anyone noticed communication issues with .13? I upgrades from 2.6.7 and it seems my devices don't seem communicate as well as they use to and scenes sometimes miss turning on devices that I normally never had issues with. Something is sure different, I just cant seem to put my finger on it. I have noticed this too. All the same insteon hardware (> 1 yr old), no configuration changes and no new devices in the house. I just thought I'd wait for .14 to see if things improved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonWPB Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 I definitely have noticed communications issues that coincide with updating to .13. As you have said, I now have scenes that do not respond. I don't quite understand this, since these scenes are, once programmed, independent of the ISY. However, I do have communications issues. This weekend (when I have time to re-add my motion sensors), I'm going to roll back to .7 to see how things go. I waited to .13, seeing the clear issues leading up to that, but .13 looked to be more stable. But, with the communications issues, that might just be a coincidence, I'm willing to roll back to see if I can get back to a stable install. Has anyone noticed communication issues with .13? I upgrades from 2.6.7 and it seems my devices don't seem communicate as well as they use to and scenes sometimes miss turning on devices that I normally never had issues with. Something is sure different, I just cant seem to put my finger on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkvargyas Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 I've got a slighly different problem.... I've been running .13 for a while now and recently, I've had several ICON and Swlitchlinc's die or need to be replaced.. I finally got around to replacing them with recent RMA units from SH, and the new switches were some new version I don't have anywhere else. After about the 3rd new Swtchlinc, all of the sudden I'm having all sorts of unrealiable communication issues. Some switches will not report status to the ISY unless I manually query them, even though I've done a "restore" on that device....just very odd network behavior. I'm about ready to rip out the new switches to see if communication returns to normal.... I've never had communication problems like this in the two years I've been running Insteon until now. Even though my wife's patience was tested a long time ago, mine is starting to get there --- does it ever end? Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottmichaelj Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 I have added two new switchlincs however funny enough those are not giving me any problems. Are switchlincs causing issues with the .13 firmware? The scenes that are having the issues were existing with no new hardware is what is now giving me problems. If I select the items under "my lighting" they seem to work fine - however when in a scene thats when things dont want to work. I am not sure if the commands are sent out too fast from the ISY/PLM and thats maybe why things are not responding properly. I also have noticed my sunset program is not turning on items that I never had had issues with. Then when I turn the "missing items" on from a KPL or directly under my lighting they do turn on and work. I been testing some programs out by adding a wait command to see if it improves the reliability and these missing items from not working, but you cant do this with scenes. I am just grasping at straws though to see if I can find something that works. I have 6 access points in my 3500 sq ft home and have tested them in ALL my homes plugs and it doesn't seem to improve communication at all regardless where I put them. I am thinking about maybe buying more access points so I have at least 1 per room but that's going to get expensive quick. I am running rev2.75 v64 firmware on my PLM - I think I am going to get replacements for those then 2 of the 6 access points are rev1.0 so maybe getting them all up to 2.75 would be best. If that doesn't work maybe I will down grade back to 2.6.7 and see if things improve again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Algorithm Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 This weekend (when I have time to re-add my motion sensors), I'm going to roll back to .7 to see how things go. Hi Jason, 2.6.8 was, I believe, the first version to offer support for the INSTEON motion sensors. I personally feel 2.6.8 was very stable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Algorithm Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 I'm about ready to rip out the new switches to see if communication returns to normal.... Hi Brian, You could pull the air-gap on those new switches to see if the rest of the network returns to normal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonWPB Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 Darrell - You're right. I was mistaken. It was 2.6.8, not .7, that was very stable and that I plan on going back to this weekend. My comm issues may all be coincidence, but I'm hoping to debug my comm issues this weekend and get back to where I was with .8. This weekend (when I have time to re-add my motion sensors), I'm going to roll back to .7 to see how things go. Hi Jason, 2.6.8 was, I believe, the first version to offer support for the INSTEON motion sensors. I personally feel 2.6.8 was very stable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottmichaelj Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 FWIW Tonight I went to backup my ISY fw2.6.13 to downgrade back to fw2.6.7 to see if that would fix my communication, program and scene issues however it failed due to "could not retrieve the configuration file /config/82.und" - once you hit ok then it says "failed to backup" - Any ideas? Maybe this is why I am having issues? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michel Kohanim Posted January 8, 2009 Author Share Posted January 8, 2009 huddadudda, I do not recommend 2.6.7. If you wish, please downgrade to 2.6.8. The .und files are definitions (name/address) for the nodes and have no impact on communications. I think this file was in use while you tried to back it up. If this persists, please reboot your ISY and retry. With kind regards, Michel FWIW Tonight I went to backup my ISY fw2.6.13 to downgrade back to fw2.6.7 to see if that would fix my communication, program and scene issues however it failed due to "could not retrieve the configuration file /config/82.und" - once you hit ok then it says "failed to backup" - Any ideas? Maybe this is why I am having issues? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottmichaelj Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 I already tried that and it didnt work. Any other ideas? Or just go for it? huddadudda, I do not recommend 2.6.7. If you wish, please downgrade to 2.6.8. The .und files are definitions (name/address) for the nodes and have no impact on communications. I think this file was in use while you tried to back it up. If this persists, please reboot your ISY and retry. With kind regards, Michel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLIKWARTZ Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 I have seen this occuring at some point in my firmware upgrade process. I thought it was a hardware issue, but I've just about eliminated that. I've noticed that the devices that are in the scene work find if they are pulled out and controlled separately by a problem than depending on the scene. I might try back installing to 2.6.8 and try that a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michel Kohanim Posted January 9, 2009 Author Share Posted January 9, 2009 Hello RLIKWARTZ, Are these devices new? Specifically, are they the SWLs and LampLincs? With kind regards, Michel I have seen this occuring at some point in my firmware upgrade process. I thought it was a hardware issue, but I've just about eliminated that. I've noticed that the devices that are in the scene work find if they are pulled out and controlled separately by a problem than depending on the scene. I might try back installing to 2.6.8 and try that a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLIKWARTZ Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 These have been there for at least a year or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLIKWARTZ Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 They are mosting light switches though I have one that is a relay type lamp switch that also is unreliable. I swapped it out with a new one, but it still intermittent. I swapped out my PLM and I've factory reset all my devices in the house and reloaded them through the ISY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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