mfranzel Posted March 20, 2016 Posted March 20, 2016 (edited) Hi all, I use the SyncroLinc to monitor my washer, but my dryer has the large 240 plug. Is there anything I can use to do the same thing with the dryer? Thanks all! Edited March 20, 2016 by mfranzel
stusviews Posted March 20, 2016 Posted March 20, 2016 Is there a neutral wire in the dryer outlet box?
apostolakisl Posted March 21, 2016 Posted March 21, 2016 The best thought I have had on this is to put an alarm contactor on the flapper outside to tell when the dryer is on. You can use an io linc to monitor the contactor. Most other ideas involve doing things that would void your warranty on the dryer, be unsafe, violate code, or all of the above. Having said that, I haven't actually put a contactor on my dryer vent flapper. But I can't see why it wouldn't work. Plus, if it fails to close because of lint or whatever, it can make you aware of that fact as well. I've been meaning to do it, I just haven't.
Harvvm Posted March 21, 2016 Posted March 21, 2016 If you have Zwave you could use the Aeon smart power monitor. $25 on Amazon.
larryllix Posted March 21, 2016 Posted March 21, 2016 (edited) I have a 120vac gas dryer so do not have your problem. If I had a 240vac dryer my method would be (as Apostolakisl stated as a warranty/safety voiding operation) to open up the dryer, find the motor 120vac leads and install a 120vac standard receptacle, if there is not already one there, put a plug on the motor leads and plug it into an Insteon SynchroLinc. This would detect anytime the motor is running but not the drum lamp or timer etc... I can detect the drum lamp to detect when the door is left open too long but that wouldn't be as easy to catch with the mentioned technique. Blocking the dryer vent with a mechanism may be a problem but seems like a clean method if you are not electrical but mechanically inclined. Don't try this with a gas dryer as you could CO2 poison the occupants. Edit: Apostolakisl statement clarification. Appeared opposite of intention. Edited March 21, 2016 by larryllix
stusviews Posted March 21, 2016 Posted March 21, 2016 A 120VAC motor requires that there be a neutral wired to the dryer. Most 240VAC motor cords do not include a neutral. Sometimes there's a neutral in the outlet box, but rarely to the dryer itself.
larryllix Posted March 21, 2016 Posted March 21, 2016 (edited) A 120VAC motor requires that there be a neutral wired to the dryer. Most 240VAC motor cords do not include a neutral. Sometimes there's a neutral in the outlet box, but rarely to the dryer itself. I have several old dryer motors that I have used for venting and miscellaneous bench woodworking tools. They are all 120vac motors despite coming out of 240vac dryers over the years. The timers are also 120vac synchronous motors, as well as the lamps in the drums. There were no 240:120v step-down transformers in any dryer I have taken apart. Edited March 21, 2016 by larryllix
apostolakisl Posted March 21, 2016 Posted March 21, 2016 A 120VAC motor requires that there be a neutral wired to the dryer. Most 240VAC motor cords do not include a neutral. Sometimes there's a neutral in the outlet box, but rarely to the dryer itself. I'm pretty sure that code calls for all driers to have 4 prong outlets for quite a few years now.
apostolakisl Posted March 21, 2016 Posted March 21, 2016 I have several old dryer motors that I have used for venting and miscellaneous bench woodworking tools. They are al 120vac motors despite coming out of 240vac dryers over the years. There were no 240:120v step-down transformers in any dryer I have taken apart. they used to tie the ground and neutral together. Bad idea to do that, but it works.
apostolakisl Posted March 21, 2016 Posted March 21, 2016 I have a 120vac gas dryer so do not have your problem. If I had a 240vac dryer my method would be (as Apostolakisl stated) to open up the dryer, find the motor 120vac leads and install a 120vac standard receptacle, if there is not already one there, put a plug on the motor leads and plug it into an Insteon SynchroLinc. This would detect anytime the motor is running but not the drum lamp or timer etc... I can detect the drum lamp to detect when the door is left open too long but that wouldn't be as easy to catch with the mentioned technique. Blocking the dryer vent with a mechanism may be a problem but seems like a clean method if you are not electrical but mechanically inclined. Don't try this with a gas dryer as you could CO2 poison the occupants. I didn't say to do that. I said to put an alarm contactor on the dryer vent flapper door. Opening your drier and playing with the wires would void your warranty. I suppose you could manage to keep it clean and undo it if needed. But I think the alarm contact on the drier vent would work very well and pose no hazard.
mfranzel Posted March 21, 2016 Author Posted March 21, 2016 If you have Zwave you could use the Aeon smart power monitor. $25 on Amazon. Can I add a z-wave module to the ISY? Mine doesn't have one.
larryllix Posted March 21, 2016 Posted March 21, 2016 (edited) I didn't say to do that. I said to put an alarm contactor on the dryer vent flapper door. Opening your drier and playing with the wires would void your warranty. I suppose you could manage to keep it clean and undo it if needed. But I think the alarm contact on the drier vent would work very well and pose no hazard. Sorry. I wasn't attempting to imply that you proposed it, but rather that it would violate the warranty etc.. My bad, for shortcutting the wording there. I have edited that to clarify. Edited March 21, 2016 by larryllix
Teken Posted March 21, 2016 Posted March 21, 2016 Several other methods are to monitor the LED, Beeper, or Temperature. Depending upon model of dryer one of the three methods would operate just fine. The use of a photo diode is cheap and effective (IF) you have the electronics back ground to wire in the PCB. The beeper is a hit or miss affair with some dryers so only trial and error will let you know. Measuring the output temperature is none invasive and works reasonably well so long as your program is measuring the temperature threshold. I measure the current & voltage to let me know with 100% accuracy of the breaker turned on, door open, turned on, running, and when the cycle is complete. I measure the outlet temperature for lint build up and fire control.
MWareman Posted March 21, 2016 Posted March 21, 2016 (edited) Can I add a z-wave module to the ISY? Mine doesn't have one.Yes - as long as you have a 994... (and don't already have a Zigbee module installed). Edited March 21, 2016 by MWareman
Brian H Posted March 21, 2016 Posted March 21, 2016 (edited) You can use a Mamac CT-800 current sensor. Over one if the incoming AC Power Lines to sense when it is on or off. It has a dry contact relay in it and can trigger an I/OLinc Sensor Input. It can sense from .5 Amp to 200 Amp AC current. There is also a CT-805 that has a snap over wire feature so you don't have to disconnect any wiring. I picked up a CT-800 on Ebay for $12.50 with shipping. Tutorial from Cocoontech. http://cocoontech.com/forums/page/articles/_/tutorials/home-automation-tutorials/how-to-monitor-the-status-of-your-appliances-using-current-sensors-r58 My old dryer has a three wire plug. Line-Line-Neutral. Motor is 120 volts and a separate Ground wire is on the frame to a cold water pipe. Edited March 21, 2016 by Brian H
apostolakisl Posted March 21, 2016 Posted March 21, 2016 (edited) You can use a Mamac CT-800 current sensor. Over one if the incoming AC Power Lines to sense when it is on or off. It has a dry contact relay in it and can trigger an I/OLinc Sensor Input. It can sense from .5 Amp to 200 Amp AC current. There is also a CT-805 that has a snap over wire feature so you don't have to disconnect any wiring. I picked up a CT-800 on Ebay for $12.50 with shipping. Tutorial from Cocoontech. http://cocoontech.com/forums/page/articles/_/tutorials/home-automation-tutorials/how-to-monitor-the-status-of-your-appliances-using-current-sensors-r58 My old dryer has a three wire plug. Line-Line-Neutral. Motor is 120 volts and a separate Ground wire is on the frame to a cold water pipe. Seems you got a good deal. You can make your own current sensor by taking a strand of fine wire and wrapping one of the 2 hot wires maybe 30 times or so and then wrapping the same wire around a screw about 30 times and then splicing the two ends of that wire together to make an electrical loop. You'll turn the screw into an electro magnet. The magnet can then be placed next to a magnetic alarm contact. When the drier is on, it will power the magnet and close the alarm contactor circuit. On my drier, you could do it without unhooking anything since the outer sheath of insulation doesn't make it all the way into the drier. At the back of the drier there is about an inch where the 4 separate wires are exposed. The guy from Lowe's installed the drier, so not sure if he was supposed to secure the wire inside the drier. Anyway, no need to mess with it, it is fine. Edited March 21, 2016 by apostolakisl
marcin Posted March 21, 2016 Posted March 21, 2016 I used little NK AS1-NOU-CC which is normally closed in connection with I/O Linc. Installation was very simple, just unscrew back wire panel and slide in the sensor over middle wire.
larryllix Posted March 21, 2016 Posted March 21, 2016 Seems you got a good deal. You can make your own current sensor by taking a strand of fine wire and wrapping one of the 2 hot wires maybe 30 times or so and then wrapping the same wire around a screw about 30 times and then splicing the two ends of that wire together to make an electrical loop. You'll turn the screw into an electro magnet. The magnet can then be placed next to a magnetic alarm contact. When the drier is on, it will power the magnet and close the alarm contactor circuit. On my drier, you could do it without unhooking anything since the outer sheath of insulation doesn't make it all the way into the drier. At the back of the drier there is about an inch where the 4 separate wires are exposed. The guy from Lowe's installed the drier, so not sure if he was supposed to secure the wire inside the drier. Anyway, no need to mess with it, it is fine. For more mechanical ease of construction you can use the extra wire in the other hot conductor to wrap around your electromagnet also. You just need to wrap that wire around the opposite direction of the first wire. This will take up some slack created by the first wire and increase the sensitivity of the loop count. We are still playing with unapproved electrical wiring devices so some electrical knowledge and safety situational thinking is required to make this work and keep things safe.
mfranzel Posted March 21, 2016 Author Posted March 21, 2016 Thank you all for the input! For what it's worth, I think the easiest thing for me is to get the Z-Wave card from UD and use the Aeon Labs z-wave energy meter.
jerlands Posted March 21, 2016 Posted March 21, 2016 (edited) Thank you all for the input! For what it's worth, I think the easiest thing for me is to get the Z-Wave card from UD and use the Aeon Labs z-wave energy meter. you're free to do what you want and maybe you're planning other zwave installs but marcin's suggestion (post 17) to me sounds simplest. There's a specific question on Amazon's listing as to using this for 220v dryer. I have a 220v clothes dryer. Could I use this device by putting the clip(s) around the cord leading into the wall? Jon... Edited March 21, 2016 by jerlands
mfranzel Posted March 21, 2016 Author Posted March 21, 2016 you're free to do what you want and maybe you're planning other zwave installs but marcin's suggestion (post 17) to me sounds simplest. There's a specific question on Amazon's listing as to using this for 220v dryer. I have a 220v clothes dryer. Could I use this device by putting the clip(s) around the cord leading into the wall? Jon... I did not see this... Thank you Jon. Probably not going to work. Going some other routes... My machine doesn't have a light when it is finished, but it does have a buzzer. Could I wire that into an IO link somehow?
mfranzel Posted March 21, 2016 Author Posted March 21, 2016 Several other methods are to monitor the LED, Beeper, or Temperature. Depending upon model of dryer one of the three methods would operate just fine. The use of a photo diode is cheap and effective (IF) you have the electronics back ground to wire in the PCB. The beeper is a hit or miss affair with some dryers so only trial and error will let you know. Measuring the output temperature is none invasive and works reasonably well so long as your program is measuring the temperature threshold. I measure the current & voltage to let me know with 100% accuracy of the breaker turned on, door open, turned on, running, and when the cycle is complete. I measure the outlet temperature for lint build up and fire control. Teken, my dryer doesn't have a LED but does have a buzzer. How could I use this?
stusviews Posted March 21, 2016 Posted March 21, 2016 The Aeon Labs z-wave energy meter requires the the conductors be separated. There is a solution if you have a neutral wire in the dryer outlet box.
jerlands Posted March 21, 2016 Posted March 21, 2016 I did not see this... Thank you Jon. Probably not going to work. Going some other routes... My machine doesn't have a light when it is finished, but it does have a buzzer. Could I wire that into an IO link somehow? I'm not saying it won't work and you could obtain power consumption but it should go in your power panel (dryers use 220v for the heating element.) Your least invasive method is the zwave then I believe marcin's suggestion. Jon...
mfranzel Posted March 21, 2016 Author Posted March 21, 2016 I'm not saying it won't work and you could obtain power consumption but it should go in your power panel (dryers use 220v for the heating element.) Your least invasive method is the zwave then I believe marcin's suggestion. Jon... I am trying to AVOID going into the power panel! ;P do NOT need to get electrocuted!!
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