Ceiling Fan Control with 2 wires no Neutral

[smithlevenson]

Reviving an old thread here.

 

I had 4 fans on a 2 wire 2474DWH but they sounded so strained until I put them back on a regular flip switch.

 

I have ordered 4 Fanlincs for them, but now I need a switch that I can run the 4 fans from. I have a 8 switch Keypadlinc and 8 switch remote that I can use, but I am afraid that the Keypadlinc will reintroduce a dimmer to the equation and I would have to rewire to get a neutral.

 

I could direct hard wire an always hot to the Fanlincs and control from an 8 switch remote set in the former switch housing.

 

I guess I could wire the 2 wire 2474 in and pig tail off both wires to put the fans on a Switchlinc that is controlled by the dimmer. I wonder if this would still introduce the dimmer "noise" into the equation.  I don't really need all the Fanlinc control other than for setting scenes (and to annoy my wife by automating everything).

 

Am I missing something? These don't seem to be the best strategies. I guess let me know what you would do and I will let the people decide this one.

[stusviews]

The switch box has to have at least 2 wires. That's all you need. If there are only 2 wires, then white is line and black is load. You'll need to change that at the ceiling box so that white is neutral and black is line. Then cap off the Keypad red load wire. You won't need it.

 

At the fan, connect all white wires together. There'll be one from the FanLinc, one from the light, one from the fan, one from the switch and one or more neutral wires. Connect the black line wire(s) the the black from the FanLinc and black from the switch.

 

Connect the blue FanLinc wire to the light and the red FanLinc wire to the fan motor.

 

Install FanLincs in the other three fans. Create scenes to control all fans from the Keypad and/or remote.

[smithlevenson]

The switch box has to have at least 2 wires. That's all you need. If there are only 2 wires, then white is line and black is load. You'll need to change that at the ceiling box so that white is neutral and black is line. Then cap off the Keypad red load wire. You won't need it.

 

At the fan, connect all white wires together. There'll be one from the FanLinc, one from the light, one from the fan, one from the switch and one or more neutral wires. Connect the black line wire(s) the the black from the FanLinc and black from the switch.

 

Connect the blue FanLinc wire to the light and the red FanLinc wire to the fan motor.

 

Install FanLincs in the other three fans. Create scenes to control all fans from the Keypad and/or remote.

You don't think the Keypadlinc will introduce the dimmer buzzing issue. The power will still be coming from a dimmer right. Even at 100% they don't provide the correct power.

I will re-read a few times and see if your solution mitigates the dimmer issue, or have you tested this set up?

[stusviews]

No, the dimmer's red load wire is capped, that is, it's not connected to anything at all. The dimmer is connected to power only, line and neutral. Only the FanLinc is connected to the loads, light and fan. I do have a FanLinc controlling LED bulbs.

[smithlevenson]

Got it. Thanks a million

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[smithlevenson]

No, the dimmer's red load wire is capped, that is, it's not connected to anything at all. The dimmer is connected to power only, line and neutral. Only the FanLinc is connected to the loads, light and fan. I do have a FanLinc controlling LED bulbs.

 

Tried to get this to work yesterday, but my situation is a lot more complex up top. I have an always on receptacle in the mix. I am going to work on it again, but I could not get 120V with my meter with the keypadlinc wired in as described.

 

Maybe I should just skip trying to wire through the Keypadlinc and just get power from the always hot receptacle connection in the first junction box. 

 

Just to confirm you are sure that the 120V passes through the Keypadlinc from the black line to the white nuetral and continues to the ceiling box? Sorry to bug you, but grappling with a volt meter, on a live line, on a ladder is not my fav thing.

[stusviews]

If the only wires in the switch box are black and white, then white is the line and black is the load. You need to change that so that white is neutral and black is line. Describe the wiring in the ceiling box. You can disregard any ground wires.

[smithlevenson]

I made it work. It is too complex to waste time describing. I assumed that you could put a switch in circuit with a fan and deliver 120V to the fan in circuit with the switch. It did show some voltage but not 120V. I get what you were saying now, but when I added the 3 other fans and an always hot receptical it got complicated. Thanks again Stus!

[smithlevenson]

Totally off topic, but I switched from wire nuts to WAGO Pushwire connectors. I think I am in love.

 

I know, I know that the surface area of the push in connectors is much less than the wire nuts, but for a 4 fan installs over my head 10' ceilings with a small box they were life savers. I was able to make cleaner connections with less bulk on the 6 - 14 AWG wires. They also flex into smaller spaces when they aren't all twisted up in a bundle. I may live to regret it, but those things are amazing for speed and accuracy. I am ordering in bulk for my neutral wire connections.

 

(At least it was my topic to go off of ; )

[apnar]

If you think those are awesome then wait until you try the Wago Lever Nuts. They are similar to push wire but have levers so you can lock or release each individual wire.

[Adam G]

No, the dimmer's red load wire is capped, that is, it's not connected to anything at all. The dimmer is connected to power only, line and neutral. Only the FanLinc is connected to the loads, light and fan. I do have a FanLinc controlling LED bulbs.

 sorry to revive this again. so in this application I assume the 2474DWH is not the right dimmer to use as it does not have black, white and red? the 2477D is what you are suggesting correct?  

[Brian H]

The 2474DWH is a two wire dimmer.

Steals its power through the Load.

Load has to be an Incandescent or 120 Volt equivalent halogen bulb.

It will not work with anything else. Like CFL, LED bulbs, inductive things like motors.

 

2477D can be used as a controller for other Insteon Modules. Supplying the AC Line {Black} and Neutral {White} power connections.

Can control a Load if the Red wire is connected and not capped off.

[stusviews]

 sorry to revive this again. so in this application I assume the 2474DWH is not the right dimmer to use as it does not have black, white and red? the 2477D is what you are suggesting correct?  

 

A typical Insteon 3-way configuration uses two 2477D switches (if the load is dimmable). Both devices get line and neutral (black and white, respectively) and only one connects to the load (red). Depending on the wires in each switch box, some wires need to be connected differently then they currently are, but no new wires are needed.

[gages97]

If you think those are awesome then wait until you try the Wago Lever Nuts. They are similar to push wire but have levers so you can lock or release each individual wire.

Funny, I just discovered these also

 

http://www.wago.us/products/terminal-blocks-and-connectors/installation-connectors/compact-splicing-connectors-for-all-conductor-types-221-series/overview/

 

Makes life so much easier

[suderman]

Appologies for the post revivial, but I have a three-way question:

I replaced the upstairs switch with a 2474D, hooked up line, load and neutral as expected. To test, I connected the line and load wires on the downstairs’ receptacle and everything works fine.

But then I realize the downstairs receptacle is missing the neutral wire. There’s a leftover traveller wire I can repurpose as an always-on line, but the 2474D won’t come alive unless I touch its neutral to the receptacle’s ground (I didn’t leave it that way!). 

Can I use a 2474DWH instead? It doesn’t need the neutral to come alive, apparently. And I don’t care about its load limitations since I won’t even use the load wire. The load is handled upstairs. I essentially just need this to operate like a powered remote in the wall. 

Thoughts?

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi suderman,

You should be able to so since - and if I am not mistaken - 2474DWH is 2474D in WHite.

 

With kind regards,
Michel

[suderman]

6 hours ago, Michel Kohanim said:

Hi suderman,

You should be able to so since - and if I am not mistaken - 2474DWH is 2474D in WHite.

 

With kind regards,
Michel

Um, hopefully I’m not messing up the model names (I’m on mobile), because I’m not trying to refer to the colour of the switch at all.

Most of my switches are regular SwitchLinc dimmers (with neutral wire), and I was hoping to find out if a 2 wire SwitchLinc dimmer (no neutral wire) would operate without a load (only line wire hooked up, load wire capped off).

I’ve read on this board that this switch “steals” power from the load to operate, which I never understood since the load has no power half the time (and relies on the switch to “give” it power). BUT, if this switch requires the load wire to be attached to work as a RF remote in the wall, then my plan won’t work. Regular SwitchLinc dimmers work without the load wire attached to anything... but do these?