Can the web folders be accessed from something like Dreamweaver

[MarkJames]

Hi Benoit,

 

I was sitting down to do some work on the button routines you sent me last week when I got an email from my web host saying that my plan was getting ready to expire.

 

Since I retired I don't really need much of a web page anymore.  Mostly it's to host a large bookmarks page that keeps links to all the network devices around the house and more recently an HAD page to do some lighting control.  So... I figured I may as well let ISY be my web server and save some money on hosting.

 

I found a free DNS service, changed my name servers, and put my web page basics into a subfolder on the ISY server.  I put my personal page on /user/web/homepage as index.htm with all the supporting files nested in or under /user/web/homepage.  I like to use Dreamweaver to write directly to the web server and was wondering if there's a way to access that folder directly.  I don't think the ISY supports FTP but I thought I might be able to write directly to it over the local network using a UNC of //192.168.0.123\user\web\homepage.  That doesn't work, though - nor does anything else I've tried.  Seems the only way I can write to the ISY web server is through the ISY admin console web server interface.

 

Is that the case or am I missing something?

 

Thanks,

 

mark

 

[MWareman]

I don't believe so. You (currently) have to move files to and from this space with the admin console.

 

Maybe a feature request is in order? I'd like to see an easier to manage user web structure.

[bmercier]

Hi Benoit,

 

I was sitting down to do some work on the button routines you sent me last week when I got an email from my web host saying that my plan was getting ready to expire.

 

Since I retired I don't really need much of a web page anymore.  Mostly it's to host a large bookmarks page that keeps links to all the network devices around the house and more recently an HAD page to do some lighting control.  So... I figured I may as well let ISY be my web server and save some money on hosting.

 

I found a free DNS service, changed my name servers, and put my web page basics into a subfolder on the ISY server.  I put my personal page on /user/web/homepage as index.htm with all the supporting files nested in or under /user/web/homepage.  I like to use Dreamweaver to write directly to the web server and was wondering if there's a way to access that folder directly.  I don't think the ISY supports FTP but I thought I might be able to write directly to it over the local network using a UNC of //192.168.0.123\user\web\homepage.  That doesn't work, though - nor does anything else I've tried.  Seems the only way I can write to the ISY web server is through the ISY admin console web server interface.

 

Is that the case or am I missing something?

 

Thanks,

 

mark

 

Hi Mark,

 

Unfortunately, you can't write to the ISY using a network share. You have to use the admin console.

 

I would recommend to use another web server. A NAS like QNAP or Synology is a good candidate, if you have one.

 

Perhaps your router could do the job as well. I run Tomato shibby firmware, which allows to have a web server which you can expose internally and/or externally. You can use SCP to access the files, which an editor like Komodo Edit can use. Not sure for dreamweaver though.

 

A Raspberry PI could also be a solution.

 

But these approaches would require more tinkering than just using a NAS.

 

Benoit.

[MarkJames]

I don't believe so. You (currently) have to move files to and from this space with the admin console.

 

Maybe a feature request is in order? I'd like to see an easier to manage user web structure.

 

Yeah - it's very convenient with Dreamweaver and it's Put/Get to server routines.  My webpage is pretty simple so no biggie.

 

I'll leave someone else to make a feature request.  That didn't go so well for me last time 

[MarkJames]

Hi Mark,

 

Unfortunately, you can't write to the ISY using a network share. You have to use the admin console.

 

I would recommend to use another web server. A NAS like QNAP or Synology is a good candidate, if you have one.

 

Perhaps your router could do the job as well. I run Tomato shibby firmware, which allows to have a web server which you can expose internally and/or externally. You can use SCP to access the files, which an editor like Komodo Edit can use. Not sure for dreamweaver though.

 

A Raspberry PI could also be a solution.

 

But these approaches would require more tinkering than just using a NAS.

 

Benoit.

 

Thanks Benoit.

 

I have a ReadyNAS - I'll check and see if it will act as a webserver - I've never thought about it.  It streams media so it may well be that it serves web pages as well.  With no need for php or java it just has to be a very barebones server.  I'll also look at my router - I run an Asus router but I've changed the firmware to Tomato.  I use the ddns functionality (it's GREAT for that) but I've not looked at the web server aspect.  

 

I have a raspberry pi kicking about but it's a bit quirky on the network and drops off from time to time.  I have it connecting by wi-fi, though, so perhaps a wired connection would be better.

 

Thanks,

 

mark

[bmercier]

Thanks Benoit.

 

I have a ReadyNAS - I'll check and see if it will act as a webserver - I've never thought about it.  It streams media so it may well be that it serves web pages as well.  With no need for php or java it just has to be a very barebones server.  I'll also look at my router - I run an Asus router but I've changed the firmware to Tomato.  I use the ddns functionality (it's GREAT for that) but I've not looked at the web server aspect.  

 

I have a raspberry pi kicking about but it's a bit quirky on the network and drops off from time to time.  I have it connecting by wi-fi, though, so perhaps a wired connection would be better.

 

Thanks,

 

mark

 

Your ReadyNAS I think would be the best option. It has a web server.

 

You will also have to install a "transparent proxy" on your web server. The thing is that once your web page works on the NAS, the page will make requests like /rest/nodes to your NAS. Those requests needs to be redirected to your ISY.

 

So you will need to install this:

https://sites.google.com/site/isyajax/other-tools-php-code

 

The added benefit is that you can skip the ISY user/password prompt.

 

Benoit.

[MarkJames]

Well that was just too damned easy.  Already up and running.  I'll look at the transparent proxy next.

 

Thanks again!

 

mark

[MarkJames]

OK - so the easy part was easy and the proxy part not so much.

 

Turns out ReadyNAS comes without php support.  So - after purchasing the x86 version first (mine turns out to be SPARC) and then purchasing the SPARC version and installing it I have php5.4 running on my readyNAS

 

Can't get curl support to run, though.  Put an echo before and after the curl_init call and found it's failing on curl_init.  So.... back to the new php add-on and try to enable curl but for some reason it won't 'stick'.  I enable curl, save the changes, then refresh the screen and the curl enable goes away.  So.... decided to ssh into it only to find that my older ReadyNAS NV+ doesn't have ssh enabled natively.  Off on a search for a SPARC add-on for SSH and just finished installing that.

 

I'll play some more tomorrow.

 

As with every project you must take how long you THINK it will take then double it and switch to the next larger unit of time measure.

 

On a brighter note, though, my web page is coming up beautifully from the ReadyNAS server!

 

mark

[bmercier]

OK - so the easy part was easy and the proxy part not so much.

 

Turns out ReadyNAS comes without php support.  So - after purchasing the x86 version first (mine turns out to be SPARC) and then purchasing the SPARC version and installing it I have php5.4 running on my readyNAS

 

Can't get curl support to run, though.  Put an echo before and after the curl_init call and found it's failing on curl_init.  So.... back to the new php add-on and try to enable curl but for some reason it won't 'stick'.  I enable curl, save the changes, then refresh the screen and the curl enable goes away.  So.... decided to ssh into it only to find that my older ReadyNAS NV+ doesn't have ssh enabled natively.  Off on a search for a SPARC add-on for SSH and just finished installing that.

 

I'll play some more tomorrow.

 

As with every project you must take how long you THINK it will take then double it and switch to the next larger unit of time measure.

 

On a brighter note, though, my web page is coming up beautifully from the ReadyNAS server!

 

mark

 

I'm sure you can get through that one

 

Once this works, this can save a lot of time when you work on your page. 

 

Benoit.

[MarkJames]

Well that was a lot of dicking about but it works!

 

My older ReadyNAS NV+ had no php but I got that on but then it didn't have curl.  To get curl I needed SSH which was yet another add-on.  Once SSH was running I had no apt-get so I couldn't install any packages.  That was yet another add-on.  Once apt-get was working curl had a bunch of missing dependencies that needed to be fixed. 

 

Two hours and a handful of the little hair I have remaining and shazam!  I can now turn my lights on and off through the rest interface over the WAN via my own web page.  Very cool!  

 

I suppose for security the lighting page should be in a folder that requires login.  Is that the way you recommend, Benoit?

 

mark

[bmercier]

Well that was a lot of dicking about but it works!

 

My older ReadyNAS NV+ had no php but I got that on but then it didn't have curl.  To get curl I needed SSH which was yet another add-on.  Once SSH was running I had no apt-get so I couldn't install any packages.  That was yet another add-on.  Once apt-get was working curl had a bunch of missing dependencies that needed to be fixed. 

 

Two hours and a handful of the little hair I have remaining and shazam!  I can now turn my lights on and off through the rest interface over the WAN via my own web page.  Very cool!  

 

I suppose for security the lighting page should be in a folder that requires login.  Is that the way you recommend, Benoit?

 

mark

 

For sure, I would not leave it available on the internet without authentication.

 

Personally, I prefer a VPN approach instead of HTTP basic auth. On my Tomato router, I have setup an openvpn server, which I access using the openvpn client on iOS. It's easier to just turn the VPN on, instead of typing a user/password. This also gives me access to the complete lan for things like camera.

 

Benoit.

[paulbates]

As a related suggestion. You can leverage your ISY Portal account to access HAD pages, stock and custom, from the internet via a single URL / shortcut, without setting up a proxy server or opening a port. It prompts for ISY Portal credentials.

https://my.isy.io/isy/xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx/USER/WEB/yourhadpage.htm

I have it as a shortcut on my iphone and also my work laptop. It provides a clean way to control and monitor the isy without opening a port or setting up a secondary proxy system.

 

I do develop, test and perfect my HAD pages on my NAS, Then I copy the finished product back on the ISY using the admin console, one time.

 

Paul

[MarkJames]

Holy Mackerel, Benoit!

 

This is quite the learning journey!

 

I'll look at that next - my brain is starting to hurt, though.

 

mark

[MarkJames]

As a related suggestion. You can leverage your ISY Portal account to access HAD pages, stock and custom, from the internet via a single URL / shortcut, without setting up a proxy server or opening a port. It prompts for ISY Portal credentials.

https://my.isy.io/isy/xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx/USER/WEB/yourhadpage.htm

I have it as a shortcut on my iphone and also my work laptop. It provides a clean way to control and monitor the isy without opening a port or setting up a secondary proxy system.

 

I do develop, test and perfect my HAD pages on my NAS, Then I copy the finished product back on the ISY using the admin console, one time.

 

Paul

 

Thanks Paul,

 

That's what I was doing prior to the NAS.  In the last few days I've moved my web page from a host (where I couldn't access the ISY rest interface directly) to my ISY (which has no php or java support) and now to the NAS.  It's getting quite confusing as I'm sure you can imagine.  I'm constantly changing my name server pointers lol. 

 

Not being able to write directly to the web folder was my biggest beef but the other thing that I didn't like about the ISY hosting it is that it required a stealth/cloaked redirect so that my web page didn't end up looking all like http://mywebpage.com/user/web/index.htm.  That started getting confusing.  With the NAS hosting it I don't see any of that.

 

So far the transparent proxy seems fine though I'm just barely into it.  I'm hoping that it will allow me to parse the response from the rest request so that I can determine if lights are on or off.  I couldn't figure out how to do that from the WAN before but perhaps you have some input on that.  Porting it back to the ISY once done should work too though I bet you have to be careful that your links are relative to your root or you'll end up with a big mess.

 

mark

[paulbates]

Thanks Paul,

 

That's what I was doing prior to the NAS.  In the last few days I've moved my web page from a host (where I couldn't access the ISY rest interface directly) to my ISY (which has no php or java support) and now to the NAS.  It's getting quite confusing as I'm sure you can imagine.  I'm constantly changing my name server pointers lol. 

 

The thing that I didn't like about the ISY hosting it is that it required a stealth/cloaked redirect so that my web page didn't end up looking all like http://mywebpage.com/user/web/index.htm.  That started getting confusing.  With the NAS hosting it I don't see any of that.

 

So far the transparent proxy seems fine though I'm just barely into it.  I'm hoping that it will allow me to parse the response from the rest request so that I can determine if lights are on or off.  I couldn't figure out how to do that from the WAN before but perhaps you have some input on that.  Porting it back to the ISY once done should work too though I bet you have to be careful that your links are relative to your root or you'll end up with a big mess.

 

mark

Mark

Got it. I've poked at this from a few angles too. I have a couple pis but not ready to set up a proxy and complicate my HA solution more. I've run it on my NAS for a while with an open port to the internet. That was ok, but  there are annoying things like NAS firmware upgrades wiping out directories, and my work, under the web server. My router supports several VPN servers including Open VPN, I did that for a while, it works but I don't need to access my entire LAN as much as I used to based on how services have migrated to the cloud.

 

The portal has pretty much erased that need for me. The pis just run and do their work with no interference or rebooting needed. The portal gets me to my ISY for admin, but i'm not changing programs a lot, so haven't used that much remotely (I have my own rule about changes while out of town..). Its the had pages with dashboards and controls that I need the most.  The other thing I settled on was bookmarks/short cuts on known devices.. rather than trying to shorten "/user/web". I don't access my ISY or had from a device I don't own/control.

 

I'm interested in your journey though and what you decide works best for you

 

Paul

[MarkJames]

The HAD pages are possibly my favorite single upgrade to my ISY system.  It's given my HA the biggest WAF (wife acceptance factor) boost of anything I think I've ever done (other than have the ISY turn on the electric blanket for my wife when it's cold outside LOL)  I really wish there was a full blown implementation of something like the Homeseer HSTouch system for the ISY.  Perhaps some enthusiastic coder will dive into that someday.

 

Just to be clear - as I'm a little vague on this - when you say 'portal' are you just talking about the webserver on the ISY?  What are you using the PIs for?

 

mark

[paulbates]

Agreed on HAD. It has high WAF value, but is also "OS proof". No matter what phone, what computer.. there is a consistent, attractive single interface, not a lot of apps to buy and configure.

 

For portal, I'm talking about UDI's portal product.  It provides cloud-ish web services to your ISY remotely and you subscribe to it (via manage modules). The ISY is configured internally to start it, and it calls into the ISY Portal "cloud service". Much like wifi thermostats, smart tvs and other iot appliances, it initiates the connection to the ISY Portal service from the ISY inside of your LAN, no open firewall ports required. As a result, I've literally closed all ports on my firewall to inbound traffic.

 

Primarily the ISY Portal product is for remote Admin Console access and IFTTT integration, of which I use both. Mainly people use it for Amazon echo integration, which I haven't yet but still thinking about. 

 

That's where the leverage for HAD comes in; because I already subscribe to the ISY Portal, I can also use my portal link and credentials to access my HAD pages that are on my ISY, using the link format I posted above. The"x"s are replaced with my unique ISY Portal key associated with my subscription account.

 

For the pis, I primarily use them to run a nodeserver, specifically io_guys' Nodelink. Its an interface to my venstar colortouch thermostats, logging and additional info that he provides. One pi is "prod", the other is dev - which in this case means a place to shoot myself in the foot without collateral damage 

 

Paul

 

 

[MarkJames]

Ahhh - I see.  I haven't looked at the portal.

 

It looks attractive but I'm a bit averse to subscription products.

 

My workflow goes something like this...

 

My domain is registered through godaddy for $10 a year.

My name servers are with zoneedit and they allow you up to 3 for free

My router runs tomato and has a built in ddns client that works seamlessly with zoneedit so my website looks static

 

I've got my router port forwards set up all my outward facing ports to my inward devices.  At the moment I have a Dahua NVR, 3 axis video servers with 12 cctv cameras attached, 5 IP cams, the Readynas, a PC that runs BlueIris video server, Plex media server, and uTorrent for RSS downloads, a fanless pc running Homeseer, the ISY on both HTTPS and HTTP, an Elk M1 Gold on both HTTPS and HTTP, and simple port forwards to VNC server running on each of the 9 PC's in the house.

 

So www.mypage.com goes to my html based webpage running (now) on the readynas

 

Zoneedit allows me to use multiple cname or cloaked entries so I have it setup such that from anywhere on the WAN I can type

 

mypage.com and go to my homepage

isy.mypage.com and go to the ISY

homeseer.mypage.com and go to Homeseer

elk.mypage.com and go to Elk 

etc. for all the cams, servers, pc's, 

 

I've never really worked on my admin console from remote but I could easily do it using a VNC shell into any of the PC's and then using a local web session.

 

As with many things in life there are a lot of ways to get there!

 

Cheers!

 

mark

[MarkJames]

Hi Benoit,

 

I've got things working reasonably well but now have to focus on keeping this secure as my ISY can control my garage door and Elk.

 

I've tried setting up .htaccess on the readynas but it's a non-standard Apache configuration and I'm stymied on how to get it to work - all I get is 500 internal server errors.

 

So... after many hours of hairpulling I decided to to VPN as you suggested earlier.

 

I'm not knowledgeable about VPN's so I wanted to ask you a couple of questions if that's ok.

 

first - my tomato is set up as 192.168.0.1.  Do you think I need to change it?  I hope not as my network has a LOT of devices with static IP's and port forwards.

 

second - do you recommend a paid VPN service or OpenVPN?

 

That's about it for now..

 

Thanks!

 

mark

[bmercier]

I'm not knowledgeable about VPN's so I wanted to ask you a couple of questions if that's ok.

 

first - my tomato is set up as 192.168.0.1.  Do you think I need to change it?  I hope not as my network has a LOT of devices with static IP's and port forwards.

 

second - do you recommend a paid VPN service or OpenVPN?

 

 

Hi Mark,

 

You don't need to change the IP address of your router. Also, a paid server will not help you, it serves other purposes.

 

What you want is a VPN server on your router, and a VPN client configuration on your mobile device, laptop or whatever it is that you want to connect to your home network.

 

In Tomato, look for OpenVPN server or PPTP server. You will need to decice if you want a PPTP VPN, or OpenVPN. Bottom line, PPTP is the easy route, and OpenVPN is the more secure but more complex route.

 

Comparison here:

https://www.ivpn.net/pptp-vs-l2tp-vs-openvpn

 

Although PPTP is not as secure as OpenVPN, it is still much much better than just opening a port. You may want to go that route first if you are not too familiar with VPN. PPTP is easy. OpenVPN is more complex to configure, has more options, and you need to create certificates. You will need to search for a tutorial if you want to keep some hair.

 

PPTP is also easy on the iOS side. Try it, it is fairly intuitive. For openVPN, you wil have to install the OpenVPN iOS app. 

 

Benoit.

[MarkJames]

Ok - so I've got pptp installed and running on Tomato and I've also installed it on my Android phone. 

 

I can connect to the VPN server from my phone properly which is pretty cool and all my local ip addresses (like 192.168.0.1 for my router) work as if I was home.  That's pretty sweet.

 

BUT.... web access still works - ie if I browse to my webpage from Windows or a non-VPN connection I still see my web server running on the NAS behind the Tomator router.  Is there something else I need to change for that?

 

Almost there - sorry for all the questions!

 

mark

 

[edit]

Actually, I think I understand...

 

Seems like I would make my webpage (at least parts that need to be secure) inaccessible from the web.  I could leave my port forward to the webserver open for trivial things but if I want to control lights etc. then I could use a VPN connection to control a separate webpage that isn't accessible from the WAN - only from my LAN.  Is that right?

[bmercier]

You need to remove your port forward! You need to make the web page not accessible from the internet.

 

Benoit.

[MarkJames]

This is going to take some more thought than I've given it.  

 

I want my web page accessible from the web without having to use a VPN.  I just want my HA stuff behind some security.  

 

I'm gonna have to plan this out a bit and perhaps host my web page on one server and my HA on a different one.

 

Thanks Benoit,  you've given me much to think about.

 

mark