kck Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 So I have had an ISY/Insteon system running in my home for number of years successfully. Now we are about to buy a vacation home in the desert that I am interested in at least partially automating. I could, of course, just go with what I know and use Insteon stuff everywhere but the long term trendline would seem to be toward zwave product and the multi-vendor ecosystem there should produce more competition/innovation in the long run. So what do folks here think are the pros/cons for making a decision now on this. Are the zwave products now the right was to invest in things? (I'll still get an ISY controller either way.) Experience or general opinions welcomed! Thanks. Link to comment
larryllix Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 I was going to mention a boathouse but "Desert"....LOL I will mention an outbuilding may work better with Insteon and it's long distance powerline capabilities over Zwave. I have no Zwave or experience with it but repeaters needed may be a a factor for some distance. Link to comment
Teken Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 I think if you so equip the ISY Series Controller with Z-Wave the world is your oyster and can select hardware that meets your specific needs. Z-Wave is the clear winner in terms of locks and TSTAT's at the moment. Personally, I haven't seen any Z-Wave products that meet my needs for light switches or KPL's. Currently there isn't very many Z-Wave devices that offer instant status and for me that's a no starter. Query / Polling to know the current live status of a device is so 1980. Link to comment
kck Posted June 15, 2016 Author Share Posted June 15, 2016 Teken, What do you mean by instant status. Do you mean that if you flip the zwave switch the ISY won't know that until the next time it asks that switch??? That would seem to make no sense. Link to comment
larryllix Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 Teken, What do you mean by instant status. Do you mean that if you flip the zwave switch the ISY won't know that until the next time it asks that switch??? That would seem to make no sense. 1980s. Isn't that brand dependent also? Link to comment
Teken Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 Teken, What do you mean by instant status. Do you mean that if you flip the zwave switch the ISY won't know that until the next time it asks that switch??? That would seem to make no sense. https://www.zwaveoutlet.com/pages/instant-status-vs-polling Link to comment
larryllix Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 https://www.zwaveoutlet.com/pages/instant-status-vs-polling Wow! Let's have a standard we all agree on but everybody has to pay us to use it. Link to comment
MWareman Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 Wow! Let's have a standard we all agree on but everybody has to pay us to use it.The patent has expired - and Homeseer was (I believe) the first to sell a device with instant status post-patent. I'm sure more will follow. Link to comment
Teken Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 The patent has expired - and Homeseer was (I believe) the first to sell a device with instant status post-patent. I'm sure more will follow. I agree lots of the other manufactures will be pushing to release updated devices to have instant status. This would offer lots of people the opportunity to pick up older units on fire sale (IF) and when they start to arrive on the market. Regardless of the instant status to date there haven't been very many KPL styled switches from any maker that beats out the Insteon equivalent. Besides that most if not all Z-Wave devices from the majority of vendors have some of the worst look and feel for their hardware. If I wanted that 1970 X-10 look I would just go out and buy some X-10 devices in the first place! As much as I bash on Smartlabs for other areas, the one area I will never bash them on is their look and feel for their current product offerings. The Z-Wave camp has lots of catching up to do in the aesthetics . . . Link to comment
bpwwer Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 I've been remodeling a vacation cabin for the past 3 years and so far I've only installed Insteon there. But then I don't have access to the internet and thus haven't yet installed a router or ISY. One advantage for me has been that I have spare Insteon devices so I can quickly grab those and install as needed at our cabin. Also, with Insteon, I don't need a controller so I can install a couple of switches and link them up easily. I do agree with Teken, once you have the ISY you don't really have to chose, pick the device that works best for the need, whether it's Insteon or Zwave. I have both at my primary residence and they work fine together. Although, I'm about 95% Insteon. Link to comment
MWareman Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 I agree lots of the other manufactures will be pushing to release updated devices to have instant status. This would offer lots of people the opportunity to pick up older units on fire sale (IF) and when they start to arrive on the market. Regardless of the instant status to date there haven't been very many KPL styled switches from any maker that beats out the Insteon equivalent. Besides that most if not all Z-Wave devices from the majority of vendors have some of the worst look and feel for their hardware. If I wanted that 1970 X-10 look I would just go out and buy some X-10 devices in the first place! As much as I bash on Smartlabs for other areas, the one area I will never bash them on is their look and feel for their current product offerings. The Z-Wave camp has lots of catching up to do in the aesthetics . . . Yep - fully agree. The Homeseer device is the very first zwave switch that both supported instant status, and (IMO) looked good enough to put on my wall... Link to comment
larryllix Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 The patent has expired - and Homeseer was (I believe) the first to sell a device with instant status post-patent. I'm sure more will follow.That move (not the expiry) probably did the most damage to the Zwave industry, and themselves, than any other developement using the protocol. Many pick on that aspect of Insteon but Zwave may have been much further out in front if not for that greed. An expression comes to mind something about nose and face. Link to comment
Teken Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 Yep - fully agree. The Homeseer device is the very first zwave switch that both supported instant status, and (IMO) looked good enough to put on my wall... 1465702801872.jpg How do you find the tactile feel of the switch? I ask because some of the other brands I have played around with had a odd squishy / very hard touch action. Link to comment
MWareman Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 It's a lot stiffer that Smarthome switches - a more solid click. I actually quite like it. Link to comment
smithlevenson Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 My Insteon stuff works better than my Z-Wave locks. I am using the ISY with the Z-wave antenna and it is not reaching a lock that is about 20' away. The registration process is marginally more complicated but probably only an issue if you were doing a whole house at once. I haven't attempted adding them to any outside (of ISY) programming. With the ISY you also can't add them to scenes and have to use a program to control them if you want them to be a part of a scene. I am sure there are other programs that have a more integrated approach, but with your skills it won't be an issue either way. Tekken, I love my Insteon thermostats but couldn't find a single lock I liked that was Insteon. Plus I have been told that the Z-wave protocol is more secure than Insteon. Link to comment
stusviews Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 An Aeon Gen 5 Siren solved all my Schlage Z-Wave lock problems. the first lock was aslo about 20' away from the ISY. Interestingly, the lock was reliable when the door was left open, only a couple of feet closer to the ISY. The siren/repeater worked even plugged in further away from the ISY than the lock was (i.e., lock between the ISY and siren). Link to comment
Teken Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 My Insteon stuff works better than my Z-Wave locks. I am using the ISY with the Z-wave antenna and it is not reaching a lock that is about 20' away. The registration process is marginally more complicated but probably only an issue if you were doing a whole house at once. I haven't attempted adding them to any outside (of ISY) programming. With the ISY you also can't add them to scenes and have to use a program to control them if you want them to be a part of a scene. I am sure there are other programs that have a more integrated approach, but with your skills it won't be an issue either way. Tekken, I love my Insteon thermostats but couldn't find a single lock I liked that was Insteon. Plus I have been told that the Z-wave protocol is more secure than Insteon. Those using the latest Z-Wave 5 Plus that support AES-128 bit encryption certainly have more security in place. My hopes are Smartlabs that makes Insteon will update their hardware to mirror the very same. The benefits of Z-Wave Plus using the 500 series chip set are outlined here: http://aeotec.com/z-wave-500-series-module-chip Link to comment
lilyoyo1 Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 I use a combination of both and that's what I recommend. Use insteon where zwave is weak and vice versa. I prefer insteon switches and keypads. When it comes to zwave, I use fibaro sensors, Yale locks, and Cooper outlets (outside of places I need both outlets controlled). Link to comment
ahwman Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 Yep - fully agree. The Homeseer device is the very first zwave switch that both supported instant status, and (IMO) looked good enough to put on my wall... 1465702801872.jpg Would you please include the model number of this switch and the best place to purchase it? Thanks so much! Chuck Link to comment
MWareman Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 Would you please include the model number of this switch and the best place to purchase it? Thanks so much! Chuck They only make one... I got mine from Amazon, though I cannot attest that it's the best place to get it from... https://www.amazon.com/HomeSeer-HS-WS100-Z-Wave-Scene-Capable-Switch/dp/B01DFSAAJ4/ref=sr_1_3 Michael. Link to comment
ahwman Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 They only make one... I got mine from Amazon, though I cannot attest that it's the best place to get it from...https://www.amazon.com/HomeSeer-HS-WS100-Z-Wave-Scene-Capable-Switch/dp/B01DFSAAJ4/ref=sr_1_3 Michael. Thanks Michael, I was actually looking for a dimmer and found the following http://store.homeseer.com/store/x-P2156.aspx for $49.95. I assume this is the same switch in a dimable configuration? One more question, does the ISY support all of the functions of this switch as I'm fully Insteon and about to take the plunge into Zwave... Thanks so much for your help, Chuck Link to comment
MWareman Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 Sorry, I thought I had linked the dimmer... This is the right one (though not currently available from Amazon).. https://www.amazon.com/HomeSeer-HS-WD100-Z-Wave-Scene-Capable-Dimmer/dp/B01DFRWZNE ISY does not get the double and tripple tap events, nor does it support 'central scene'. ISY does get instant status from the dimmer though. Also note that ISYs scene integration between zwave and Insteon is currently incomplete. I have not added mine to any scenes yet, so cannot say how they work in that regard. Link to comment
ahwman Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 Sorry, I thought I had linked the dimmer... This is the right one (though not currently available from Amazon).. https://www.amazon.com/HomeSeer-HS-WD100-Z-Wave-Scene-Capable-Dimmer/dp/B01DFRWZNE ISY does not get the double and tripple tap events, nor does it support 'central scene'. ISY does get instant status from the dimmer though. Also note that ISYs scene integration between zwave and Insteon is currently incomplete. I have not added mine to any scenes yet, so cannot say how they work in that regard. That's great information. I certainly hope you don't mind me picking your brain... Does your gut tell you that eventually the ISY will support these currently missing features? Overall, would you say you're happy with this switch in comparison to the Insteon counterpart? Thanks again for your help... Link to comment
MWareman Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 I happy with it as is in its current install point. I generally buy for the features it has now, rather than promised or implied features. I wouldn't count on getting the additional features anytime soon. If you need to deal with double-taps and native scene integration stick with Insteon for the time being (it's a fast-on and is a separate event). I think the taps on it are built around central-scene support, and I think that's a Sigma 500 series feature. My suspicion is that it's not possible without an ISY hardware refresh. Link to comment
ahwman Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 I happy with it as is in its current install point. I generally buy for the features it has now, rather than promised or implied features. I wouldn't count on getting the additional features anytime soon. If you need to deal with double-taps and native scene integration stick with Insteon for the time being (it's a fast-on and is a separate event). I think the taps on it are built around central-scene support, and I think that's a Sigma 500 series feature. My suspicion is that it's not possible without an ISY hardware refresh. That's great advice Michael. Thanks again for all of your valuable information and taking the time out to share with me. Have a blessed weekend, Chuck Link to comment
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.