bcdavis75 Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 Hi all. I've got 40 some odd dimmers installed in a new house using an ISY for control. Everything works fine except for two dimmers. These dimmers (when in a dimmed state) will flash the load up to 100% in an irregular strobe like fashion. This tends to happen when there's traffic being created on the insteon network--touch another nearby dimmer, for example. Interestingly, these dimmers are located in an area of the house where there are no TV's or other high draw electrical components. It is highly annoying behavior as you can imagine. I have a ticket open with Smarhome support. I have also tried factory reset. No luck. All bulbs are LED. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian H Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 What model are the Insteon devices flashing and are they a recent hardware revision? Some of the earlier SwitchLinc Dimmers had an issue with power line signals flashing the loads. What type of load is on the dimmers? Incandescent, 120 volt Halogen, LED? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcdavis75 Posted July 20, 2016 Author Share Posted July 20, 2016 All bulbs are LEDs. I'll post back with exact model numbers. I'm at work at the moment. Can I get that info from the ISY interface? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G W Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 All bulbs are LEDs. I'll post back with exact model numbers. I'm at work at the moment. Can I get that info from the ISY interface? Yes. You can get the device and the firmware. Best regards, Gary Funk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulbates Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 Are these controlled by scenes? The same scene(s)? If so, try factory resetting without reconfiguring the scene. See if the problem continues Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcdavis75 Posted July 20, 2016 Author Share Posted July 20, 2016 No. These are fresh installs. I haven't added them to scenes yet. largely becasue I wanted to figure this issue out first. Are these controlled by scenes? The same scene(s)? If so, try factory resetting without reconfiguring the scene. See if the problem continues Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stusviews Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 Does the problem continue if you use incandescent bulbs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghaynes27 Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 I would swap with different bulbs and see if the issue still happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcdavis75 Posted July 20, 2016 Author Share Posted July 20, 2016 I would swap with different bulbs and see if the issue still happens. Thought about that... problem is these bulbs are located over a large stairwell. I'd need a scaffold just to reach them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghaynes27 Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 Swing by your Lowes or HD and get one of these for ~$20. Easy to use for tall ceilings. Changed all my lights in my great room (18 foot ceiling) in just a few minutes. http://www.homedepot.com/p/Bayco-11-ft-Pole-Light-Bulb-Changer-Kit-with-Attachments-CE-600SDLB12/100354521 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stusviews Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 Swap the dimmer with one that you know works well. If the problem follows the location, then the load is the culprit otherwise the dimmer is suspect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcdavis75 Posted July 21, 2016 Author Share Posted July 21, 2016 What model are the Insteon devices flashing and are they a recent hardware revision? Some of the earlier SwitchLinc Dimmers had an issue with power line signals flashing the loads. What type of load is on the dimmers? Incandescent, 120 volt Halogen, LED? One of the problem devices is: (2334-2) keypad Linc Dimmer v.43. Coincidentally (or not), all 3 of the devices I'm having issues with are 6 button keypads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian H Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 I checked the Insteon Users reported information web page and didn't see any reported problems with the 2334-2 v.43 devices. http://www.madreporite.com/insteon/Insteon_device_list.htm Could be how the drivers in the LED bulbs are reacting to the dimmer circuit in the KPL. Trying different LED bulbs may give more clues. Though you indicated they are in a hard to reach location. Did you have a chance to try swapping a working one for one of the problem ones? As Stu had suggested. I have seen reports of some LED bulbs pulsing on power line noise or automation power line signals and a standard wall dimmer. So some combinations maybe an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcdavis75 Posted July 21, 2016 Author Share Posted July 21, 2016 I checked the Insteon Users reported information web page and didn't see any reported problems with the 2334-2 v.43 devices. http://www.madreporite.com/insteon/Insteon_device_list.htm Could be how the drivers in the LED bulbs are reacting to the dimmer circuit in the KPL. Trying different LED bulbs may give more clues. Though you indicated they are in a hard to reach location. Did you have a chance to try swapping a working one for one of the problem ones? As Stu had suggested. I have seen reports of some LED bulbs pulsing on power line noise or automation power line signals and a standard wall dimmer. So some combinations maybe an issue. I order a couple new keypads becasue I need them anyway. I'll swap one into that location and report back. In other news, my 3rd problem child appears to have died completely. In this case (I'll call it Keypad 3), whenever I plugged something into the wall below the keypad (like a vacuum), the lights would come. My mother in law really found this amusing. Anyway, yesterday, that keypad began flashing the lights and then appears to fail completely. It makes a buzzing sound and all the leds are lit in a dimmed state. The switch is completely unresponsive even after resetting it. I'll replace that one two and report back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulbates Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 Yes, mine completely occupies my allotted space in the peanut gallery. There simply isn't room left My mother in law really found this amusing..... Some serious commentary though. It seems odd to have this many different insteon problems. This could indicate electrical system problems. Its remotely possible that hot an neutral are wired backwards in some circuits or in some places. I had this happen... I found this a circuit in one part of my home that was a newer addition. It had never mattered before, but I lost 2 keypads in one spot before I figured it out... the buzzing, clicking, etc. They make plug in testers, you could plug it into the outlet under the keypad. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcdavis75 Posted July 21, 2016 Author Share Posted July 21, 2016 Yes, mine completely occupies my allotted space in the peanut gallery. There simply isn't room left Some serious commentary though. It seems odd to have this many different insteon problems. This could indicate electrical system problems. Its remotely possible that hot an neutral are wired backwards in some circuits or in some places. I had this happen... I found this a circuit in one part of my home that was a newer addition. It had never mattered before, but I lost 2 keypads in one spot before I figured it out... the buzzing, clicking, etc. They make plug in testers, you could plug it into the outlet under the keypad. Paul This should be easy to test though. If I pull the outlet and the dead switch, I can just test the neutral with a volt meter. If it's hot, then I've got a problem right? I'll try that this evening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stusviews Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 Plugging something into an outlet should never affect ans Insteon device (unless the device is controlling the outlet). You should always test outlets using the proper tool, such as this one. A voltmeter requires at least three separate tests to perform the same function. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcdavis75 Posted July 21, 2016 Author Share Posted July 21, 2016 Thanks Stu. Just bought it on Amazon... Couple things. I spoke with a support person at Smarthome and she asserted that a high wattage nearby appliance plugged in nearby can sometimes generate line noise that would explain the behavior. And further, I would need a Filterlinc to correct it. I'm guessing you find that dubious? Second, can you explain what you mean by "a voltmeter requires 3 separate tests to perform the same function"? Plugging something into an outlet should never affect ans Insteon device (unless the device is controlling the outlet). You should always test outlets using the proper tool, such as this one. A voltmeter requires at least three separate tests to perform the same function. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G W Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 Thanks Stu. Just bought it on Amazon... Couple things. I spoke with a support person at Smarthome and she asserted that a high wattage nearby appliance plugged in nearby can sometimes generate line noise that would explain the behavior. And further, I would need a Filterlinc to correct it. I'm guessing you find that dubious? Second, can you explain what you mean by "a voltmeter requires 3 separate tests to perform the same function"? Line to ReturnLine to Ground Return to Ground Best regards, Gary Funk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stusviews Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 Voltage between line and neutral, voltage between line and ground, voltage between neutral and ground. And, yes, I find that dubious. Although a filter may be required, plugging in a device should not cause a device to change from an Off state to an On state. The plugged in device can affect the operation of the device (e.g., won't turn on or won't turn off). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcdavis75 Posted July 21, 2016 Author Share Posted July 21, 2016 Voltage between line and neutral, voltage between line and ground, voltage between neutral and ground. And, yes, I find that dubious. Although a filter may be required, plugging in a device should not cause a device to change from an Off state to an On state. The plugged in device can affect the operation of the device (e.g., won't turn on or won't turn off). Interesting. I'll report back what the socket test says once it arrives. As for testing the wires where the switch died--Can I assum I want to see the following? Line to Return: 110v (return means Nuetral correct?) Line to Ground: 110v (I think this would be the box itself?) Return to Ground: 0v? And the load wire is not an issue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stusviews Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 That's correct. The line voltage may vary somewhat, usually between 108 and 122, nominally 115. Another check is the resistance between neutral and ground. And, yes, if you have metal boxes and metal sheathed cable such as BX or flex (Greenfied in some locations), then the box is ground. BTW, another common term for the neutral is the "common." Edit: the load is not an issue when testing the wiring, but the load may affect the operation of the device. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcdavis75 Posted July 21, 2016 Author Share Posted July 21, 2016 Thanks Stu! And what the desired resistance between neutral and ground? I'm going to need an Ohm meter for this correct? That's correct. The line voltage may vary somewhat, usually between 108 and 122, nominally 115. Another check is the resistance between neutral and ground. And, yes, if you have metal boxes and metal sheathed cable such as BX or flex (Greenfied in some locations), then the box is ground. BTW, another common term for the neutral is the "common." Edit: the load is not an issue when testing the wiring, but the load may affect the operation of the device. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stusviews Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 The resistance should be at or close to zero, but use the outlet tester which finds any wiring error. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulbates Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 They are relatively cheap, you can pick them up at most hardware stores. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.