MasterC Posted August 30, 2016 Posted August 30, 2016 I am in the middle of a new home build and I have removed all of my old Insteon devices (primarily switchlinc dimmers) from the previous house. The only thing I really did before I disconnected everything in the old house was remove all of the devices from the ISY. I never actually reset the Insteon devices or the ISY. My question and wonderabout here is what happens when my electrician wires in all of my existing ISY switchlinc dimmers in the new house? Will they still operate as a standard dimmer switch to the load that they are wired to, without having the ISY hooked in yet? I won't be able to get into the house and install the ISY until the possession date, but obviously I need to have functional light switches in the house. I think I will be fine, but I'd like some others on here to chime in with their thoughts. Thanks.
Teken Posted August 30, 2016 Posted August 30, 2016 Locally you will be fine but the electrician will be freaking out wondering why other parts of the home are turning on-off. This assumes he knows nothing about Insteon HA. ========================= The highest calling in life is to serve ones country faithfully - Teach others what can be. Do what is right and not what is popular.
MWareman Posted August 30, 2016 Posted August 30, 2016 You could always make a quick rig to attach power to each device in turn (safely!) and perform a reset on each device... That way you'll get rid of the now unneeded link records...
MasterC Posted August 30, 2016 Author Posted August 30, 2016 You could always make a quick rig to attach power to each device in turn (safely!) and perform a reset on each device... That way you'll get rid of the now unneeded link records...
MasterC Posted August 30, 2016 Author Posted August 30, 2016 This is an intriguing option. I'm fairly handy with electrical wiring. Any suggestions on how one would setup a temporary rig to get power to each switch?
stusviews Posted August 30, 2016 Posted August 30, 2016 All wired devices will function independently. Although the wire colors are obvious, the electrician needs to be aware that the devices require line and neutral. All devices will retain their links (scenes) if you do not factory reset each and every device.
giesen Posted August 30, 2016 Posted August 30, 2016 The other thing I would note (as I recently had my ISY unplugged for a couple of days) is that the switch will work, but the bottom LED will flash red if it can't contact one of the devices it's linked to... Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk
MWareman Posted August 30, 2016 Posted August 30, 2016 Extension cord and a couple of wire nuts?That's pretty much what I do, but I like living on the edge! Try an extension cord with an inline switch - so its easy to turn it off before switching devices!
stusviews Posted August 30, 2016 Posted August 30, 2016 I use a cut in half extension cord so often that I've added fully insulated alligator clips to banana plugs fastened to the wires. The banana plugs allow for different attachments (e.g., alligator clamps/crocodile clips). MWareman, thanks. An inline switch saves plugging the extension cord in and out.
Teken Posted August 30, 2016 Posted August 30, 2016 (edited) I use a hybrid method which is extremely quick, easy, and secure that is using Wago lever nuts. Edited August 30, 2016 by Teken
MWareman Posted August 30, 2016 Posted August 30, 2016 Seems we have all had to deal with temporarily supplying power to devices...
Teken Posted August 30, 2016 Posted August 30, 2016 Seems we have all had to deal with temporarily supplying power to devices... Yeah some of us had to do the twist nut method a few dozen times before grabbing a brain it wasn't very efficient
MasterC Posted August 31, 2016 Author Posted August 31, 2016 Wow....lots of responses! Teken - those lever nuts look ingenious. Now to find out where I can buy them (I'm in Canada).... If I get around to it one of these days I'll have to rig something up and reset them one by one (I only have 30 to do ) Really appreciate all of the responses. I seemed to have touched on a topic that a lot of people have encountered. The electrician who is wiring my house seems to know his stuff well. I'm not sure if he's done Insteon switches in the past but he's had a lot of experience with the Lutron products. I already made him aware of my proposed Insteon setup before the house was even wired.
Teken Posted August 31, 2016 Posted August 31, 2016 Wago lever nuts are more expensive than standard *Marretes* but really do speed up standard wiring. They are CEC / NEC approved and come in various sizes and capacities. Besides more expensive some of the different Wago connectors are larger than standard screw on connectors so box fill may pose an issue in some junction box's. As an aside I also reside in the 51st State (Canada). ========================= The highest calling in life is to serve ones country faithfully - Teach others what can be. Do what is right and not what is popular.
giesen Posted August 31, 2016 Posted August 31, 2016 I find box fill to be a serious issue with any insteon switches.. My favourite is the Ideal Can-Twist... They are one size fits all, have little wings so you can torque them good and tight and will take up to either 6 or 7 (can't remember off hand) 14 ga. conductors. Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk
jwbbucs Posted August 31, 2016 Posted August 31, 2016 I am in the middle of a new home build and I have removed all of my old Insteon devices (primarily switchlinc dimmers) from the previous house. The only thing I really did before I disconnected everything in the old house was remove all of the devices from the ISY. I never actually reset the Insteon devices or the ISY. My question and wonderabout here is what happens when my electrician wires in all of my existing ISY switchlinc dimmers in the new house? Will they still operate as a standard dimmer switch to the load that they are wired to, without having the ISY hooked in yet? I won't be able to get into the house and install the ISY until the possession date, but obviously I need to have functional light switches in the house. I think I will be fine, but I'd like some others on here to chime in with their thoughts. Thanks. I have this same upcoming issue. Currently I have all programming stemming from the ISY going out to all the switches (at least I think, still very new to all this). If the switches do get reset, once the ISY is installed, will the ISY re-write all logic to all of the devices when they connect? Not sure if I'm asking that question correctly or not. Thanks for any help here or any other tips you may have in preparing to move my "test home" setup into it's final location in about 9 months.
Teken Posted August 31, 2016 Posted August 31, 2016 If the 2413S PLM still holds the link record for the devices anything the ISY knows about can be turned on-off. Best practices are to hard reset all hardware following the full users manual for those specific devices. You would do the same for the ISY & 2413S PLM. Essentially you would be starting with a new slate. It should be noted you can export all of the programs from the ISY Series Controller by going to the root folder and right mouse click and select that option. Doing so before you factory reset the controller will at least give you something to follow and start with. Obviously you will need to change the programs to either have no conditions that point to a specific piece of hardware or remove that reference. A little bit of work in prep will save you tons of setup time later. Lastly, regardless of all the above make a good back up in case you need to revert back for what ever reason. Better to have and not need. Then to need and not have!! ========================= The highest calling in life is to serve ones country faithfully - Teach others what can be. Do what is right and not what is popular.
jwbbucs Posted August 31, 2016 Posted August 31, 2016 Ok, thanks. So any notion of just removing from the "test house" and plugging into the corresponding spot in the new house is not quite accurate. Good to know.
Teken Posted August 31, 2016 Posted August 31, 2016 (edited) Another alternative is to mark each device as to their future (final placement ) that way once the hardware is installed there's nothing to do. This of course requires lots of thought and planning because if the switch is in the wrong spot you will need to reprogram it anyways. All of this is work in the front end or the back end. From personal experience I prefer to do all the front end prep so it's just wire and go! ========================= The highest calling in life is to serve ones country faithfully - Teach others what can be. Do what is right and not what is popular. Edited August 31, 2016 by Teken
lilyoyo1 Posted September 1, 2016 Posted September 1, 2016 Another alternative is to mark each device as to their future (final placement ) that way once the hardware is installed there's nothing to do. This of course requires lots of thought and planning because if the switch is in the wrong spot you will need to reprogram it anyways. All of this is work in the front end or the back end. From personal experience I prefer to do all the front end prep so it's just wire and go! ========================= The highest calling in life is to serve ones country faithfully - Teach others what can be. Do what is right and not what is popular. That's what I did when I built my house. I labeled each box to where it was supposed to go and added it to the ISY. Then I set all the links for scenes and write the programs that I wanted. When the house was done, I simply hooked up the ISY, turned linking back on and let it set the scenes and programs. Saved me a hell of a lot of time that I didn't have when I moved.
jtara92101 Posted September 3, 2016 Posted September 3, 2016 (edited) Extension cord and a couple of wire nuts? That's what I did when I moved, because I didn't think to reset all the devices before the move (I completely reset the ISY, though). Plus I had some communication issues. Just an extension cord with the socket end cut off and stripped. Tin the wires with a soldering iron for durability! Work from an outlet near your ISY to avoid communication trouble - the ISY needs to do a LOT of back-and-forth when setting-up a scene. I program the device initially while plugged-in, then move it to it's final destination. (Of course, as you add more devices, you will be programming them at some distance, but at least the initial setup gets done with little chance of communication failure.) Tip: DOUBLE check that you have unplugged it before rewiring to a new device! I caught myself doing it live a couple of times (I had a HUGE box of devices to go through) - but didn't manage to zap myself, whew! BTW, love that Wago connectors, haven't tried them. Looks like they are meant to be reusable. I've been using the Ideal push-ins, which aren't quite "ideal". They are smaller than wire nuts and so help with box fill. And because they are transparent, you can verify correct installation and full contact. On the other hand, you NEED to be able to inspect, because they have a tendency to back-out as you are re-positioning in the box. At the same time, they are difficult to disassemble. (Please throw them in the trash if you do! You CAN remove the wires without destroying the connector, but it involves twisting the wire, easier said than done when you are using a 4-port connector and #12 wire!) I've had to replace ALL of the electrical outlets in my new place, because they are all insanely flakey, almost none will hold plugs, they arc and spark, some had broken metal straps (so these were QUALITY outlets, since they actually had metal straps!) Since they are all 20A outlets, and I've been getting "commercial grade" anyway, that means I've been enjoying the sanity of screw-down back-wiring. (No push-in outlet wiring.) (I don't think push-in is popular for 20A devices, or perhaps even not permitted by code any more? At least I haven't encountered them, but I have avoided the cheapie "residential" stuff, instead shopping carefully online for decent prices. Edited September 3, 2016 by jtara92101
stusviews Posted September 3, 2016 Posted September 3, 2016 1. I've never seen a standard duplex outlet that didn't have metal brackets. The bracket serves as ground when using (grounded) metal boxes. That alone doesn't mean they're quality. Did you make note of the brand? 2. All 20 ampere duplex receptacles have screws because they're meant for 12AWG which is rated for 20 amps. The maximum size wire for push-in connectors is 14AWG wire (15 amp rating). A problem with using 20 amp receptacles with 14AWG wire is that someone may inadvertently plug a heavy load into the outlet (e.g., a maintenance person).
giesen Posted September 4, 2016 Posted September 4, 2016 (edited) People actually use push-ins? I know up here the vast majority use the screw terminals, including ground screw, where the ground wire comes from panel to ground screw in box, then ground screw on receptacle... Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk Edited September 4, 2016 by giesen
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