Any H.A.M operators on here? Need Help

[Teken]

You are set for a post-nuclear scenario! Given an EMP-protected repeater, and your portable kept in a Faraday Cage until needed.

 

Otherwise, you need a license!

 

I thought you were Canadian? If not, /CFTC/FCC/s

 

The current entry-level U.S. license is the Technician License. (There used to be a Novice License, which is what I started with.)  Simple 35-question test, and gives all privileges on all amateur bands > 30mHz and even some HF. The test is nothing like what the Technician license once was.

 

There is no longer a morse code requirement. This is good if you want to get an Extra license, as getting to 25WPM requires a lot of practice.

 

Canadian's follow very similar radio licenses for HAM etc we pretty much mimic what our brothers do in the FCC. Regardless, again my intent is to ensure our team and family have field proven communications when needed. I can not simply hope and rely on cell towers or other forms of communications.

 

When the HAM community has a field proven record for offering COMM's when natural disasters hit. Many if not all States / Provinces have a tight community of volunteers which ensure the towers and comms are 100% at all times. My goal is to be able to extend my current range of 40 miles to extend all over the province when needed.

 

Right now I have two personal repeaters live and working at home and at a friends location. This pretty much covers my normal travels but want to be able to use other repeaters for longer distances for fail over.

[jtara92101]

 This project is being undertaken to ensure I have fail over communications method for the team and family

 

 

Unfortunately, the Amateur service does not support this type of usage. Commercial use is verbotten, whether in direct contact or via non-radio relay. Many repeaters have a "phone patch", typically requiring a club membership to use. You could phone home or to anyone with non-commercial type traffic. ("I am delayed, I won't be home for another hour.")

 

BTW, the Technician test will likely focus MAINLY on regulatory questions such as this! They can't go into much technical depth in 35 questions. The technical questions will be VERY basic.

[jtara92101]

Right now I have two personal repeaters live and working at home and at a friends location.

 

 

Oh, oh, oh. I hope they are on commercial frequencies. Unfamiliar with the details, but I know that commercial FM has been greatly liberalized, and much/most now doesn't require a license, or maybe just a simple registration. Don't do this on ham frequencies without a license! Every user will have to have a license.

 

If your only neighbors have antlers, though, I guess the CFTC won't come a-calling any time soon. 

 

I wonder if there are shared commercial repeaters? I would guess so. But obviously only in locations with the population density to support them.

 

I think you have the radios too close to each other, and you're listening on the wrong frequency. It would be normal to hear some clicks and whatnot if they are close and the receiver tuned to the wrong frequency. Remember this discussion about Insteon and Z-wave in the same electrical box? This one is more tangibly demonstrated.

 

Do you literally mean morse code? With a tone? And that is actual morse code? That would be REALLY strange!

 

Oh. LOL. I think you are hearing the repeater ID. Do repeaters still have to ID with morse code? I think not, but I suppose they do anyway, just because it's cool. If you hear the morse code, then you (or somebody else) has keyed the repeater. The morse code will be the call-sign of the repeater. Maybe you can transcribe the dots and dashes and post them.

 

Why you don't hear a voice I don't know. Maybe you need to turn up the mic.

[Teken]

At the moment I am at a standstill so will need to wait for those in the know to reply back from the HAM club(s). One thing I have done the best that I could was to ensure none of these repeaters were digital. As of this writing I am going down the long list and trying all the repeaters in the *Repeater Book* to see if its a matter that my transmission power (signal) isn't strong enough.

 

As most transceivers (receivers) are more sensitive to pick up the signal but the TX isn't powerful enough to be received by the repeater. Then again that doesn't seem likely given I can hear everyone talking right now like its some kind of chat room.

 

None of this is very technical or overly complicated it just seems to me there is a missing piece in this puzzle or data isn't correct based on the *Repeater Book*.

 

I dunno . . .

[jtara92101]

This is all line-of-sight or very nearly so. Repeaters (or good ones) are typically on mountain tops, tall buildings, etc. Here in San Diego they are on Palomar Mountain, etc.

 

Pick one nearby and in clear line-of-sight.

 

DO download 5-0 Radio (iPhone) or similar app on Android. You will find out then which repeaters are commonly active in your area. (Hint, with 5-0 Radio "expand area"). volunteers tune radios to repeaters (or police, or fire, or...) and then send the audio out on the Internet.

[Teken]

Oh, oh, oh. I hope they are on commercial frequencies. Unfamiliar with the details, but I know that commercial FM has been greatly liberalized, and much/most now doesn't require a license, or maybe just a simple registration. Don't do this on ham frequencies without a license! Every user will have to have a license.

 

If your only neighbors have antlers, though, I guess the CFTC won't come a-calling any time soon. 

 

I wonder if there are shared commercial repeaters? I would guess so. But obviously only in locations with the population density to support them.

 

I think you have the radios too close to each other, and you're listening on the wrong frequency. It would be normal to hear some clicks and whatnot if they are close and the receiver tuned to the wrong frequency. Remember this discussion about Insteon and Z-wave in the same electrical box? This one is more tangibly demonstrated.

 

Do you literally mean morse code? With a tone? And that is actual morse code? That would be REALLY strange!

 

Oh. LOL. I think you are hearing the repeater ID. Do repeaters still have to ID with morse code? I think not, but I suppose they do anyway, just because it's cool. If you hear the morse code, then you (or somebody else) has keyed the repeater. The morse code will be the call-sign of the repeater. Maybe you can transcribe the dots and dashes and post them.

 

Why you don't hear a voice I don't know. Maybe you need to turn up the mic.

 

No, I am not TXing on any restricted frequencies even though I can RX / TX on a huge range from air band to marine etc. Since I am not a professional HAM operator my lay person observation is its some kind of code. It does really sound like morse code so don't know how to prove it otherwise.

 

As noted early on both radios are extremely feature rich as they offer true dual transmit, dual receive, dual standby. Meaning I can in fact talk and listen on two different frequencies. But that is a moot point because all I am doing is sending a quick blip and I instantly see and hear the that same blip.

 

I also see and hear the morse code when the PTT is pressed - I have separated the two radios early on but that didn't make a difference as I watched and listened over the IP cameras.

[jtara92101]

I also see and hear the morse code when the PTT is pressed - I have separated the two radios early on but that didn't make a difference as I watched and listened over the IP cameras.

 

Then you keyed the repeater! That is the morse-code repeater ID. It will be the callsign.

 

Dunno why you wouldn't hear a voice.

 

"Jake, can you get our your DF gear again? Some durn fool lid keeps keying the repeater!"

[Teken]

This is all line-of-sight or very nearly so. Repeaters (or good ones) are typically on mountain tops, tall buildings, etc. Here in San Diego they are on Palomar Mountain, etc.

 

Pick one nearby and in clear line-of-sight.

 

DO download 5-0 Radio (iPhone) or similar app on Android. You will find out then which repeaters are commonly active in your area. (Hint, with 5-0 Radio "expand area"). volunteers tune radios to repeaters (or police, or fire, or...) and then send the audio out on the Internet.

 

Right now I am going down the list and trying to connect with the closest repeaters in my area. The site indicates if its live and on but have no clue if the website is truly accurate.

 

If I can't get this working setting up another personal repeater will have to be deployed for the fringe areas. This is probably what should have happen instead of relying on someone else. I should know better than to rely on others because it rarely if ever turns out as you expect.

 

*If its to be - its up to me* . . .

[Teken]

Then you keyed the repeater! That is the morse-code repeater ID. It will be the callsign.

 

Dunno why you wouldn't hear a voice.

 

"Jake, can you get our your DF gear again? Some durn fool lid keeps keying the repeater!"

 

One thing I am going to try is based on Interwebs it says some repeaters use the ID and must also be sent? I don't know if that is true but I will program both radio's with the RF call sign and see. As I understand it its like caller ID but for analog

[larryllix]

D.O.C. in Canada is a complaint based operation. As long as you aren't clobbering somebody else, nobody will complain and you will not hear anything.

 

I maintained many radios for a MAN SCADA system for years without any tickets or licenses.  Mind you this was a commercial operation and we owned exclusive usage the two 411.xxxx & 416.xxx frequencies.

 

We did employ the D.O.C. for a few weeks to find somebody talking on our frequencies once. Found a bad transmitter that was in dire need of a tune-up in a city 100 km away.

[G W]

Are you using VHF or UHF?

 

Short and to the point.

Best regards,

Gary Funk

[Techman]

One thing I am going to try is based on Interwebs it says some repeaters use the ID and must also be sent? I don't know if that is true but I will program both radio's with the RF call sign and see. As I understand it its like caller ID but for analog

 

They're referring to a PL tone. Some repeaters are programmed to only respond to a signal that also sends a PL tone along with audio.

 

Here's an article  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuous_Tone-Coded_Squelch_System

[Teken]

What is the repeater offset?

 

What is the repeater frequency?

 

Is the repeater using a PL, if so what is the PL frequency?

 

What equipment are you using?

 

All of this information was indicated up above but for clarity sake here is another example:

 

Offset +5

Frequency: 443.5000+ plus Input Freq: 448.5000 Tone In/Out: 127.3 / 127.3

 

I am using two Wouxun hand held transceivers which are KG-UV8E this is a tri band radio. The other is model KG-UV9D Plus which is a dual band radio but can also receive on 7 different bands.

 

Thanks for any insight you may be able to offer. 

[Teken]

Are you using VHF or UHF?

 

Short and to the point.

Best regards,

Gary Funk

 

I am using both to no avail . . .

[giesen]

I am using both to no avail . . .

 

I'm guessing you're trying to hit up VE4VJ in Winnipeg? (https://www.repeaterbook.com/repeaters/details.php?ID=55&state_id=CA03). Without a license, you should not being keying up any repeaters, not even for a test. And setting this up for an emergency is no excuse, as that's the time when repeaters and repeater networks are needed the most, and having non-licensed users trying to use it for personal use while EmComm is trying to happen is just stupid. Add to that the fact even if you were licensed, you should generally become a member (in this case the Manitoba Repeater Society) to use the repeater.

[jtara92101]

All of this information was indicated up above but for clarity sake here is another example:

 

Offset +5

Frequency: 443.5000+ plus Input Freq: 448.5000 Tone In/Out: 127.3 / 127.3

 

 

You need to transmit on 448.5 mHz with a PL tone of 127.3 Hz

 

You will listen to the repeater on 443.5 mHz. The receive PL tone is optional. Don't program it for now. All the PL receive tone will do for you is to squelch signals that do not send the corresponding PL tone.

 

If you key-up (I don't know why they call it "key up", because it really is "key down"! But this might be some way-back legacy thing where spring-operated morse code keys worked in the opposite direction than we are used to...) the repeater with the proper PL tone, then you will hear the ID.

 

The morse code is a legacy thing. U.S. used to require repeaters (actually, "unattended stations") to identify themselves periodically. Doesn't HAVE to be Morse Code. Could be a voice, but that was never popular. Don't think this is required any more, but is conventional.

 

Oft chance the issue is with deviation. If your transceiver has a setting for FM deviation, if the deviation is too low for the receiver mode, then it would result in severely reduced volume.

 

Have you been using your radios on commercial frequencies? This might help! 

 

http://arsrepeaters.com/No_HAM_Narrowband_FM.php

 

If the repeater uses a wideband mode (say, 15hHz) and your transmitter is set to 2.5kHz, your voice is going to very, very weak. You need to match the receiver deviation.

[Dr Pepper]

If this is intended for family and friends to stay in communication in a disaster etc you may want to explore another route.  Here in NY we have a bunch of GMRS repeaters with some linked covering very large areas. 

 

GMRS in the states requires a lic but there is no test you just pay a fee and get a 5 year lic for you and your family.  GMRS repeaters operate almost identical to a HAM radio repeater.

 

If you want info on GMRS check out one of our local repeaters online forum at http://www.shtfli.com/shtfliforum/index.php 

 

While I am a lic Ham I also use GMRS quite often. 

 

If you stick with the Ham repeaters look into DMR systems.  Amazing quality.  You can get a Tytera MD-380 HT for about $100 (US $). 

[giesen]

If this is intended for family and friends to stay in communication in a disaster etc you may want to explore another route.  Here in NY we have a bunch of GMRS repeaters with some linked covering very large areas. 

 

GMRS in the states requires a lic but there is no test you just pay a fee and get a 5 year lic for you and your family.  GMRS repeaters operate almost identical to a HAM radio repeater.

 

If you want info on GMRS check out one of our local repeaters online forum at http://www.shtfli.com/shtfliforum/index.php 

 

While I am a lic Ham I also use GMRS quite often. 

 

If you stick with the Ham repeaters look into DMR systems.  Amazing quality.  You can get a Tytera MD-380 HT for about $100 (US $). 

 

GMRS repeaters are illegal in Canada, and non-type accepted radios (which those Wouxun radiios are) are also forbidden. Everything about what Teken is asking for is illegal.

[jtara92101]

D.O.C. in Canada is a complaint based operation. As long as you aren't clobbering somebody else, nobody will complain and you will not hear anything.

 

I maintained many radios for a MAN SCADA system for years without any tickets or licenses.  Mind you this was a commercial operation and we owned exclusive usage the two 411.xxxx & 416.xxx frequencies.

 

 

Those frequencies are in commercial bands. Presumably, those that don't require a license or require only a simple registration. I am unfamiliar with the details of current regulations, but I know that in the U.S. at least commercial VHF/UHF was significantly liberalized many years ago.

 

You cannot just transmit on any frequency providing you cause no interference. No country is allowed (by international convention) to permit that! Usage has to fit within a country's regulations, and the country's regulations have to fit within international conventions. Bands are allocated for specific usages, some licensed, some not.

 

So, for example, you CAN alter many routers to transmit on some additional channels. But you MAY not! (Extra bonus points for identifying the movie and actor for this quote: "You CAN, but you MAY NOT!"

[Teken]

You need to transmit on 448.5 mHz with a PL tone of 127.3 Hz

 

You will listen to the repeater on 443.5 mHz. The receive PL tone is optional. Don't program it for now. All the PL receive tone will do for you is to squelch signals that do not send the corresponding PL tone.

 

If you key-up (I don't know why they call it "key up", because it really is "key down"! But this might be some way-back legacy thing where spring-operated morse code keys worked in the opposite direction than we are used to...) the repeater with the proper PL tone, then you will hear the ID.

 

The morse code is a legacy thing. U.S. used to require repeaters (actually, "unattended stations") to identify themselves periodically. Doesn't HAVE to be Morse Code. Could be a voice, but that was never popular. Don't think this is required any more, but is conventional.

 

Oft chance the issue is with deviation. If your transceiver has a setting for FM deviation, if the deviation is too low for the receiver mode, then it would result in severely reduced volume.

 

Have you been using your radios on commercial frequencies? This might help!

 

http://arsrepeaters.com/No_HAM_Narrowband_FM.php

 

If the repeater uses a wideband mode (say, 15hHz) and your transmitter is set to 2.5kHz, your voice is going to very, very weak. You need to match the receiver deviation.

Understood and all of this was done as I noted up above. Still can not hear my voice at all just the click / morse code reply.

[giesen]

No, I am not TXing on any restricted frequencies even though I can RX / TX on a huge range from air band to marine etc. Since I am not a professional HAM operator my lay person observation is its some kind of code. It does really sound like morse code so don't know how to prove it otherwise.

 

If you are transmitting on an amateur radio band (which 443.5000 most certainly is) without a license then you are most certainly transmitting on a restricted frequency. And if you are operating two repeater sites on HAM bands without an Advanced Qualification license, even more so.

[Teken]

If this is intended for family and friends to stay in communication in a disaster etc you may want to explore another route. Here in NY we have a bunch of GMRS repeaters with some linked covering very large areas.

 

GMRS in the states requires a lic but there is no test you just pay a fee and get a 5 year lic for you and your family. GMRS repeaters operate almost identical to a HAM radio repeater.

 

If you want info on GMRS check out one of our local repeaters online forum at http://www.shtfli.com/shtfliforum/index.php

 

While I am a lic Ham I also use GMRS quite often.

 

If you stick with the Ham repeaters look into DMR systems. Amazing quality. You can get a Tytera MD-380 HT for about $100 (US $).

Unfortunately GMRS is not supported for repeaters here. Presently I have all common radio bands programmed to ensure these radios can listen and transmit when required.

 

This was done to ensure at least one radio was a multi purpose radio should any dedicated transceivers failed. Whether that be Marine, Air, CB, SSB, GMRS, FRS, Business, etc.

 

I appreciate the feedback though.

[Teken]

If you are transmitting on an amateur radio band (which 443.5000 most certainly is) without a license then you are most certainly transmitting on a restricted frequency. And if you are operating two repeater sites on HAM bands without an Advanced Qualification license, even more so.

Sure, I as noted clearly what my intent is and (was). Regardless, I still can't make a proper connection so at this point it's moot.

 

Regarding my two repeaters deployed I don't see how it would impact anyone given the frequency I selected and PL is NOT used by any other person in any area.

 

One would ask how do I know this? Because this frequency has been scanned for three years and nothing has ever been TX/RX'd.

 

Keeping in mind I purposely selected a out of band frequency not used by any HAM, Agency, Company etc.

 

I know lots of people get up in arms about people who are not licensed etc and understand the why. But it doesn't change what I hear all day long with people talking back and forth about random things.

 

Because they have a license its fine to talk about complete and utter B.S?!?

 

That is not my intent which has been made clear which some appear to be ignoring!

 

My goal is to have emergency comms when needed. Not talk to my wife, dog, cat about diapers, how's your day, to can you pick up some donuts which I hear every day.

 

So having a license will enable me to talk drivel as some would elude to?!?

[giesen]

Sure, I as noted clearly what my intent is and (was). Regardless, I still can't make a proper connection so at this point it's moot.

 

Regarding my two repeaters deployed I don't see how it would impact anyone given the frequency I selected and PL is NOT used by any other person in any area.

 

One would ask how do I know this? Because this frequency has been scanned for three years and nothing has ever been TX/RX'd.

 

Keeping in mind I purposely selected a out of band frequency not used by any HAM, Agency, Company etc.

 

I know lots of people get up in arms about people who are not licensed etc and understand the why. But it doesn't change what I hear all day long with people talking back and forth about random things.

 

Because they have a license its fine to talk about complete and utter B.S?!?

 

That is not my intent which has been made clear which some appear to be ignoring!

 

My goal is to have emergency comms when needed. Not talk to my wife, dog, cat about diapers, how's your day, to can you pick up some donuts which I hear every day.

 

So having a license will enable me to talk drivel as some would elude to?!?

 

 

Hams are limited in what they can talk about, "communications are limited to messages of a technical or personal nature". So yes, them getting a license entitles them to discuss drivel, as long as they don't engage in commercial activity, talk in code, and don't interfere with other operators or emergency communications.

 

Regardless of what your intentions are, what you are doing is illegal. Even for licenced amateurs, band plans are coordinated at the national and regional levels, so that uses are coordinated, repeaters don't stomp on other users, etc. You're not able to figure out how to key up a repeater but you expect us to believe you have the knowledge to operate two repeaters?

 

Even if you got your licence with advanced qualification, you must still coordinate your repeaters with the local repeater council, and to talk to your family your whole family must be licenced.

 

STOP what you are doing.

[Teken]

Setting up a repeater isn't rocket science. Please don't make it sound like it is because it isn't.

 

The fact I can't connect has no correlations to setting one up and using one successfully. If you can't offer any insight as to why or suggest a solution please don't reply or participate in this thread.

 

While your free to say having a radio license enables / allows dozens of people jam up the air waves about daily life vs someone who is preparing to use it in emergency situations which I hope to be rare.

 

It's clear to me having set up my own repeater was the correct plan because I won't have to worry about others jamming up my channel with horse sh^t.

 

 

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The highest calling in life is to serve ones country faithfully - Teach others what can be. Do what is right and not what is popular.