Any H.A.M operators on here? Need Help

[jtara92101]

 

 

 

If you key your HT and you hear the repeater ID then its hearing you.  As far as passing your audio I honestly cant come up with anything new to try.

 

 

 

 

It's been many, many years since I have talked on a ham repeater. But I recall this to be a VERY common occurrence. There's enough signal for the PL tone to be recognized, but not enough for voices to be heard (at least not clearly). The signal strength might drift in and out, but when you have a narrow filter/PLL listening only for the PL tone, then it doesn't take much to trigger it.

 

This will usually elicit comments telling the station keying the repeater that they are too weak to be heard - surprised Teken hasn't noticed these responses.

 

Of course, the other reason for repeated keying of the mic are unlicensed idiots repeatedly keying the mic without saying anything. This will elicit comments, too. Teken has no such reluctance to speak, though.

 

I suppose after 40 years or so of repeaters, perhaps everybody has calmed-down and just accept that people will get on the repeater and monkey-around, and the best response is usually just to ignore it, as usually it is just kids and they are LOOKING to get a response and get people riled-up. So, you might hear some less-obvious responses, like "Hey, Ralph, see me up 100..."

 

Yes, an external antenna on the HT is likely to get better results.

 

Something tells me the boys (and girls) in Winnipeg should get ready and get their club jackets and vests and patches and hats cleaned and pressed, and bust out the DF gear. (Boy, do these guys love to get dressed up and look all "official"...) They've got a live one, LOL!

 

Teken, if you ever do find a swap-and-shop or club meeting up there, don't be surprised if you see a bunch that look a lot like motorcycle outlaws. They're the gung-hos that like to show the Federales how to find a transmitter! Make note of their faces, you will see them again!

[mwester]

I looked through the four pages -- I really did try.  So please excuse me if this has already been mentioned as the potential problem.

 

(Gary Funk -- can you please help Teken keep his rants "short and to the point"!!!?)    Good Grief Teken!

 

 

Given a transmitter on the input frequency in close proximity* to a receiver on the output frequency, one reason you may hear nothing from the receiver is due to "desense".  The problem is that the nearby transmitter is close enough in frequency to get a lot of RF energy into the front end of the receiver, even though the receiver is not tuned to that precise frequency.  The receiver's front end deals with this by reducing its gain (automatic gain control) -- which, of course, has the side effect of making the receiver unable to hear the repeater's output anymore.  As soon as the transmitter stops, the receiver's automatic gain control adjusts, just in time to hear the repeater's end-of-transmission "beep" and squelch tail.

 

*Proximity is a relative thing -- the more powerful the transmitter, and the worse the quality of the receiver's front end is, and the closer to transmit and receive frequencies are to one another, the more distance you'll require between the two in order to avoid this problem.  When I lived in one of the Chicago suburbs, the local fire department's transmitter would deafen every receiver I had, despite a full city block of distance and the significant frequency difference between the PD/FD frequencies and the 2-mtr ham radio band.  I used something very much like this to solve the problem... still have it stored in the attic... http://www.ebay.com/itm/VHF-Tunable-Filter-Cavity-90-150Mhz-Lo-Pwr-FM-Broadcast-Aircraft-Ham-250W-/291773598636

[jtara92101]

We did cover desense. Teken actually separated his two transceivers and watched and listened to one of them via remote camera!

 

(I would have used a cohort and cell phones to coordinate. But Teken needs to maintain his McGyver skills! )

[G W]

And he tried VHF. I will guess he has at least 1 watt output so he should get darn good range. I'm at a loss as to the problem.

 

Best regards,

Gary Funk

[Teken]

Thanks everyone for their input and that goes to everyone regardless of the banter. Because valid points have been made and I take that feedback seriously and sincerely. 

 

Regardless, today's plan is to drive around and see if the two locations I need to have reception is (can) be heard. Since these two locations are well outside of my geo graphic (reception) area smartphone tech will be used to help communicate to the other team members in the field.

 

Its been awhile since I had to climb a tree but here goes nothing . . .

[larryllix]

Do you not have access to the repeater site?

It should be an easy diagnostic to see if you are keying the repeater sensing and opening squelch in the transmitter. Then you know it is just a reception problem.

[G W]

You could get some high power 6m rigs and not worry about it.

 

I bought 4, 22 element 2m antennas and placed them on a 12' by 12' mount and placed that on 15' tower and got really good range with only 5 watts.

 

You could do the same. Grin.

 

Best regards,

Gary Funk

[Teken]

Do you not have access to the repeater site?

It should be an easy diagnostic to see if you are keying the repeater sensing and opening squelch in the transmitter. Then you know it is just a reception problem.

 

Hello Larry,

 

I honestly can't say if access is the correct term here because on the face of it all of the relevant data has been entered. I can in fact hear other people on the different repeaters crystal clear. I also can *immediately* see and hear the key tone when I TX and the other hand held shows that action instantly.

 

As others mentioned perhaps its a just enough to key up the tower but the voice signal isn't strong enough from my end to be received and transmitted back to me.

 

When I get closer to the two new sites and climb one of the tree's I will at least know more than I do now. I should be there in about two hours along with the other team members. After the tree climb its back to my friends place to make some adjustments for better reception on SSB because some of the stations we have been able to lock into have offered great information.

 

Unfortunately, for some of us walking around in mud, bog, and swamp after a fresh rain storm isn't something I am looking forward to!

[larryllix]

I was referring to physical accees to the repeater site to see the flashin' lights.

 

We always had Radio guys to do the antenna work but the repeater usually has lots of indicators, just for this stuff. Sometimes we had to modify the repeater logic as they were built by analogue radio guys. LOL

 

 

 

.....Schmidtt Trigger signing off!

[Teken]

I was referring to physical accees to the repeater site to see the flashin' lights.

 

We always had Radio guys to do the antenna work but the repeater usually has lots of indicators, just for this stuff. Sometimes we had to modify the repeater logic as they were built by analogue radio guys. LOL

 

 

 

.....Schmidtt Trigger signing off!

 

LOL, no I will not have access to *See* anything as many of these sites are on tall buildings and other distant site which clearly I won't be driving to. All of this is important but I am not going to make this a life long project to resolve this if it doesn't work.

 

One thing after doing some Googlefu I totally forgot that many of the towers can be used for voice transmissions like a actual phone call. This normally requires a specific code to connect / disconnect which needs the DTFM on the keypad to access. Based on some of the readings this may be what is stopping me from connecting completely as this same numeric ID is also used to access the repeater towers.

[larryllix]

Yeah we eventually tuned off the tone activated squelch release as it would be sent through to the receieving logic boards and confuse the modems.

 

No tones made it a lot easier to just plug in a mic and talk. A clear voise and RST was worth a thousand test meters.

 

You are flying in the dark somewhat. Ever try TX on the other freq to see if it triggers the original freq. back?

[G W]

Teken, exactly how far away are these repeaters you are trying to hit?

 

Many repeaters have automated phone-patch capabilities built in. There is nothing magic about this. One just transmits a DTMF code to activate it, listen to ensure there is a dial-tone, then transmit the phone number with DTMF. then there is a code to end tbe call.

 

Best regards,

Gary Funk

[Teken]

Yeah we eventually tuned off the tone activated squelch release as it would be sent through to the receieving logic boards and confuse the modems.

 

No tones made it a lot easier to just plug in a mic and talk. A clear voise and RST was worth a thousand test meters.

 

You are flying in the dark somewhat. Ever try TX on the other freq to see if it triggers the original freq. back?

 

Yes, I tried that long ago in case the information was inaccurate on the various web sites. Doing so obviously didn't get the reply chatter I was when using the correct TX vs RX frequency. I bet dollars to donuts its the DTFM code at this point after reading a few RF forums which makes sense because its the only way they could limit and lock out random people from using the towers.

[larryllix]

ahhhh They use a DTFM password to engage.

So it gets the TX radio hot but doesn't get the passowrd and gives up and you hear the click.

 

 

"Teken creates his own packette radio"

[Teken]

Teken, exactly how far away are these repeaters you are trying to hit?

 

Many repeaters have automated phone-patch capabilities built in. There is nothing magic about this. One just transmits a DTMF code to activate it, listen to ensure there is a dial-tone, then transmit the phone number with DTMF. then there is a code to end tbe call.

 

Best regards,

Gary Funk

 

Garry,

 

This is correct but as I stated this information isn't listed and for good reason I suppose. I'm still waiting on two of the tower operators to reply back so right now I'm on a holding pattern. This might be a lost cause climbing a 65 foot tree this afternoon!

[Teken]

ahhhh They use a DTFM password to engage.

So it gets the TX radio hot but doesn't get the passowrd and gives up and you hear the click.

 

 

"Teken creates his own packette radio"

 

LOL, I don't plan on running my own pirate radio at all.

 

I just need to have fail over comms (IF) and when needed during emergencies. This was side hobby for lots of us in the past but since it was apparent the old school technology could really offer and help us in time of need. It evolved to being more than a hobby for many of us and was soon adopted as primary SOP for our preps.

[G W]

I don't understand why you need to climb a tree.

 

Best regards,

Gary Funk

[G W]

I'm not sure what kind of emergency you might be planning for but during emergency situations most HAM repeaters are locked down for local emergency operations and only a few are given access.

 

Best regards,

Gary Funk

[Teken]

I don't understand why you need to climb a tree.

 

Best regards,

Gary Funk

 

Because one location is surrounded by 25 - 65+ trees all around the property. Beside other obvious terrain issues which based on Google maps is not going to be helpful in accessing any form of RF. The *Plan* as red neck as it is will be to secure and mount a dual band antenna to the highest tree in that location.

 

This site will be the relay point which our hopes will bridge the two other sites between me and them. If successful it will increase our radius to 175 miles in all directions. No body is willing for good reason to spend thousands of dollars to purchase a tower, ship it in, install, etc.

 

It just makes sense at this point to climb a tree and mount a dual band antenna . . .

 

I know its pretty red neck but hey you have to adapt and move on . . .

[larryllix]

LOL, I don't plan on running my own pirate radio at all.

<snippage>

Not Pirate, packet (sorry about the french) radio. You know the pioneer of Cell phones, and this nonsense today?

 

@Gary. Teken has a narrow beam antenna mounted on a growing tree branch.

[Teken]

I'm not sure what kind of emergency you might be planning for but during emergency situations most HAM repeaters are locked down for local emergency operations and only a few are given access.

 

Best regards,

Gary Funk

 

Understood and more than likely may be true and hence why our back up plan will more than likely be to install a dedicated repeater at this remote site with all the solar and back up power.

[Teken]

Not Pirate, packet radio. You know the pioneer of Cell phones, and this nonsense today?

 

@Gary. Teken has a narrow beam antenna mounted on a growing tree branch.

 

The only thing I will have in about 1.3 hours is chaffing between my legs after climbing that tree. 

[G W]

Because one location is surrounded by 25 - 65+ trees all around the property. Beside other obvious terrain issues which based on Google maps is not going to be helpful in accessing any form of RF. The *Plan* as red neck as it is will be to secure and mount a dual band antenna to the highest tree in that location.

 

This site will be the relay point which our hopes will bridge the two other sites between me and them. If successful it will increase our radius to 175 miles in all directions. No body is willing for good reason to spend thousands of dollars to purchase a tower, ship it in, install, etc.

 

It just makes sense at this point to climb a tree and mount a dual band antenna . . .

 

I know its pretty red neck but hey you have to adapt and move on . . .

Ah, I understand. However, you should be able to hit a VHF repeater from the ground.

 

Best regards,

Gary Funk

[Teken]

Ah, I understand. However, you should be able to hit a VHF repeater from the ground.

 

Best regards,

Gary Funk

 

I would be very happy if we could but as I stated this location is heavily surrounded by tall trees and brush. It also isn't very high in terms of topographic location so it doesn't make line of site RF very good in all sense of the word.

[G W]

I would be very happy if we could but as I stated this location is heavily surrounded by tall trees and brush. It also isn't very high in terms of topographic location so it doesn't make line of site RF very good in all sense of the word.

On 2m that should not be a problem. I've hit 2m holes and valleys and ridiculous distances. With 200 watts and a good array, I've gotten 600 miles direct on 2m.

 

I remember sitting with my Dad in Oklahoma listening to him talk to a friend in Hawaii with only 80 watts on 2m. The best Christmas my Dad every had.

 

Best regards,

Gary Funk