Water heater recommendation

[Jimbo.Automates]

I need to buy a new hot water heater for our lake house. My insteon leak sensor let me know it has a small le... Currently I have an insteon 30 amp load control to turn it on and off but since I need to buy a new one I thought I would look for one remote control capability. I found the Rheem and this article claims it has an open api http://www.networkworld.com/article/2602908/internet-of-things/home-automations-next-big-opportunity-controlling-the-water-heater.html

But searching around I can not find any documentation and the Vera forum has a thread but didn't sound like it was all working.

 

Any other recommendations? And don't say go tankless because I don't want to do any plumbing changes.

 

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[Teken]

I think it really comes down to budget, name brand preference, product availability, and user reviews of the product. The makers warranty and what is covered vs actual warranty experiences from end users.

 

If this HWT is for the long term I would look for the most efficient units available. If given a choice for side vs top mounted pressure relief valve choose a side mounted unit.

 

Since this is going to be a new install consider buying a leak pan to contain the water and funnel it to some drain source. In terms of *Smart HWT* I would opt to go the third party route because you can always replace the add on. But replacing the main board on a smart HWT will no doubt cost you an arm and leg and some things I really don't believe should have lots of electronics with in.

 

As an aside if you are indeed interested in more energy management, temperature control, temperature awareness, leak detection, scheduled events, and remote capability you may consider Aquanta.

 

I've been a Alpha / Beta tester for the team for more than two years now and the product is finally public ready for sale. 

[Jimbo.Automates]

Thanks Taken, yes of course I am researching everything you mention, and was just asking if anyone here had a recommendation. I did look at the Aquanta but saw it was still only pre-order after 2 years of development, but good to know that you recommend it.

 

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[Teken]

Thanks Taken, yes of course I am researching everything you mention, and was just asking if anyone here had a recommendation. I did look at the Aquanta but saw it was still only pre-order after 2 years of development, but good to know that you recommend it.

 

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Yes, its been a long haul in terms of development for the Aquanta team. I've gone through a few test units but each time its made the final product even better. I believe once the team has finalized all of the basics of the system they will begin working on the open API to allow more third party integration.

 

I believe they have successfully integrated with Nest and this is part of their portal integration. With respect to recommendations I believe this is very much like any appliance from washer, dryer, fridge, etc. There always seems to be a hit and miss with different known brands.

 

This is why I spent so much time reading product reviews along with taking on Governments Energy Star and Consumer Guides for even more insight.

 

In my case I could have opted to save quite a bit by purchasing on line but in the end waited for the regular sales events at Home Depot, Sears, Lowes, etc.

 

This let me have local support and product return with out issue - It also let me take advantage of Home Depots reasonable extended warranty program. I normally avoid extended warranty's but in this case the HD was solid and had great value and didn't try to shaft you in the end.

 

With anything to do with a HWT no matter what anyone ever tells you if you so much as see a exterior dent on the card board box don't accept it. It doesn't matter how well insulated the HWT is in the box the entire thing is just one large glass vessel. It doesn't take much to damage it and this ultimately will cause a leak.

 

Other considerations is if you're able to purchase anode / cathodes, TSTAT, etc at a local  / e-tailer. Because in the long run this will save you tons of money instead of being locked by some so called plumber contractor who only has access to something so basic and easy to replace.

 

I purchased a Bradford White unit when the home was built new. The first unit sprung a leak at the top somewhere after year 2-3? The companies warranty wasn't worth the paper its written on. At the end I was still able to get them to replace the unit but after much raised voice and threat of suite.

 

The current unit has been working just fine even though the first unit came dented. I told the guys to not even take it off the truck as I wouldn't accept it. Upon the second arrival I stood there watching them unravel the case and they knew if I so much saw a dent on the box it wasn't going to be accepted.

 

So far the new one has been purring along with out issue  . . .

[Scottmichaelj]

I have two 100G Brandford White 88k BTU units and love them. However when researching I found that the capacity number wasn't always the actual storage. They play this funny number game. for example they say the tank is 50G but they take "recovery time" into the calculation. So it might be 30G actual storage and when it starts to drain the incoming water starts to fill it back up. Some companies think this could give you 20G more based on the fill and heat BTU rates. The problem is this all depends on location. If you live somewhere cold the incoming water is very cold so to get it to your desired temp it might not keep up with water demand. What I did is calculated how many on demand gallons and use needed then bought based on it. For example dishwasher 5G, washing machine 5G and possibly one shower at 2.5G per minute per X minutes is a good place to start.

 

I also noticed some of these have self clean or "helping" solutions to stop sediment and help with rusting. Not sure if they help as I haven't had any long term so can't comment.

[larryllix]

<snippage>

Any other recommendations? And don't say go tankless because I don't want to do any plumbing changes.

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If you change the size you will most likely have to do plumbing changes

[Jimbo.Automates]

If you change the size you will most likely have to do plumbing changes

Can't really change the size because the space is limited. But minor changes are ok.

 

Thanks everyone, but after more research my choices are very limited in our little lake house ☺️

 

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[stusviews]

If you change the size you will most likely have to do plumbing changes

 

Plumbing changes are never required when changing the size of a water heater. The standard inlet and outlet on virtually all water heaters is 3/4" NPT. Only the exterior dimensions of the tank matters. You can install the biggest one that fits in the space available.

[larryllix]

Oh....I have never had an electric water heater, as I could not afford to heat the water that way.

 

I use a 200,000 BTU/Hr unit.

[Jimbo.Automates]

I wish gas was an option, but it's not. Don't even need a water heater when it's over 100° F. But it does get cold in the Arizona desert in the winter. And looks like I will have to do plumbing changes because side inlet outlets are in different places depending on model and brand.

 

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[larryllix]

Propane tankless mounted outside with no vent required.

 

This isn't an option here due to deep freezing. my Rinnai units had 100W heaters in them to protect against freezing. They were inside units needing proper venting, though. Now I have a Rheem tankless and it works much better.

 

Even a small electric tankless may work well for this purpose if you have the ampacity on your service. How many showers will be taken at a time? Forget all the remote control.

[Jimbo.Automates]

Not sure I'd want to mount it to the outside of the house, and have to deal with propane tanks... I'm not sure if the ampacity of my service would handle a tankless. I wanted remote control because we sometimes want hot water on arrival after the drive which tankless would solve so I'll look into it.

 

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[larryllix]

Venting from the inside can be very costly.

 

The Rinnai double walled venting cost me a lot more than the water heater so be sure to include that in your research. I had to build a tall snorkel to get over the 7-8 feet of snow that accumulates against that wall of my house....surprise!

 

The Rheem unit used single wall and was much cheaper to install but then self-installation has been outlawed here and was very hard to get items and/or advise.

 

Hauling propane is a PITA especially with a large BTU, it can suck a 20 lb propane tank dry in less than an hour. I did the calc once and it wasn't good unless you have propane truck delivery to a bigger tank.

 

The electric tankless may the best if you have the service capacity.

 

Be careful of non-chlorinated water sitting at medium temperatures. It can breed Legionella bacteria and has killed  a lot of people showering in it. (lung disease)

[Scottmichaelj]

I wish gas was an option, but it's not. Don't even need a water heater when it's over 100° F. But it does get cold in the Arizona desert in the winter. And looks like I will have to do plumbing changes because side inlet outlets are in different places depending on model and brand.

 

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PEX connections are really easy to do yourself and versitle. This may save you from ripping the walls apart and having to get too crazy. A good plumber might also suggest this to help you keep costs/time low.

 

Rheem makes a compact little guy with a good recovery rate. Since your in AZ my whole flow/rate of recovery senerio may not matter.

[larryllix]

Just don't use brass connections. There is currently a few class action suits again almost every PEX manufacturer for dezincified fittings, causing flooding due to fitting fatigue.

[Teken]

It should also be noted even though *Shark Bites* are approved connectors its not recommended for high pressure and hot water conditions.

 

The success rate varies with environment, install, distance, etc . . .

 

But if this HWT resides in the main floor, ceiling, you could be gambling with your home / cottage.

[mwester]

SPAM.