Question about phase coupling...

[ahwman]

Hello,

 

I've recently moved across country and am starting my Insteon network from scratch, argh... That said, I had approximately 50 Insteon dimmers, switches, etc. (most dual band) in my old home and didn't worry about coupling the electrical phases since so many devices overlapped between the two phases and everything seemed to work well for the most part. That said, I've installed two dual band Insteon devices in my new home (dual outlet and a LampLinc) which both happen to be on the same circuit along with the PLM. Neither device seems to be reachable which at first didn't throw me since I haven't coupled the phases, however after doing some thinking I'm not fully understanding why they wouldn't be able to communicate since all of the devices are on the same circuit and dual band to boot. Am I missing something?

 

Also, since I don't know when or if I will be installing more devices, what is my best and simplest option to couple the phases?

 

Thanks so much,

Chuck

[larryllix]

I use an old X10, passive phase coupler, very close to my distribution panel. My PLM is plugged into the same breaker circuit and also within a few feet of the panel.

 

Your dual band devices should be enough if placed in close proximity to your PLM.

Keep experimenting with a few close to your panel to bridge the phases and bridge the distances between the PLM and your central distribution panel.

 

There is a multiple tap test on plug-in devices that can identify signal reception and same or opposite phase on each unit.

[jtara92101]

Unclear exactly what you are saying.

 

You have only two devices installed, and neither one linked to the PLM? Because if you managed to link to the PLM, you were communicating with them at least once! So, they are just physically installed, but PLM/ISY doesn't see them?

 

Or you have some devices are installed, two of them are dual-band, and can't communicate with those two devices?

 

If your devices and the PLM are on the same phase, there is no need to couple the phases.

 

I set up new devices on a zip cord - just wire-nut the devices hot and neutral to the zip cord. Plug it in near the PLM. Saves a lot of trouble putting devices in a box and then having them not work.

 

Did you do a factory reset on the devices?

 

Did you factory reset the PLM after removing from old house? Did you reset the ISY to factory?

[stusviews]

How have you ensured that the devices, including the PLM are on the same circuit.? If you are certain that all three device are on the same leg of the split, single-phase electric supply, then there is no need to bridge the opposite legs.

 

It's always a good idea to factory reset, not just reset used Insteon devices when being reinstalled. The ISY and PLM, too. Also ensure that noting is connected/plugged in to the devices before adding them the to ISY.

[jtara92101]

FYI, if you plug-in ONE of your dual-band devices on the other phase from your PLM, that will bridge the phases, assuming you are using the 2513S dual-band PLM and within range. But from your description, your problem has nothing to do with bridging phases, since there is no need to bridge phases to get these to work.

[ahwman]

Unclear exactly what you are saying.

 

You have only two devices installed, and neither one linked to the PLM? Because if you managed to link to the PLM, you were communicating with them at least once! So, they are just physically installed, but PLM/ISY doesn't see them?

 

Or you have some devices are installed, two of them are dual-band, and can't communicate with those two devices?

 

If your devices and the PLM are on the same phase, there is no need to couple the phases.

 

I set up new devices on a zip cord - just wire-nut the devices hot and neutral to the zip cord. Plug it in near the PLM. Saves a lot of trouble putting devices in a box and then having them not work.

 

Did you do a factory reset on the devices?

 

Did you factory reset the PLM after removing from old house? Did you reset the ISY to factory?

Forgive me for not being more clear in my explanation of my set up. That said, I have only two dual band Insteon switches on the same leg of the electrical service as well as the PLM. I have not been able to get the PLM to recognize either device when put into pairing mode which seems odd since both devices were already paired with my existing PLM at my prior home. I did not reset anything which I suppose is my next step. The part that's throwing me is why I would need to reset anything since all of these devices were already paired and working together and were simply uninstalled/reinstalled in my new home...

 

Chuck

[ahwman]

How have you ensured that the devices, including the PLM are on the same circuit.? If you are certain that all three device are on the same leg of the split, single-phase electric supply, then there is no need to bridge the opposite legs.

 

It's always a good idea to factory reset, not just reset used Insteon devices when being reinstalled. The ISY and PLM, too. Also ensure that noting is connected/plugged in to the devices before adding them the to ISY.

My mistake, I meant to say that all of these devices are on the same leg of the electrical service...

 

Chuck

[kohai]

"Phase coupling" sounds like something from Star Trek.

 

(No need to thank me for this very helpful reply.)

[ahwman]

"Phase coupling" sounds like something from Star Trek.

 

(No need to thank me for this very helpful reply.)

That's funny

[Techman]

Forgive me for not being more clear in my explanation of my set up. That said, I have only two dual band Insteon switches on the same leg of the electrical service as well as the PLM. I have not been able to get the PLM to recognize either device when put into pairing mode which seems odd since both devices were already paired with my existing PLM at my prior home. I did not reset anything which I suppose is my next step. The part that's throwing me is why I would need to reset anything since all of these devices were already paired and working together and were simply uninstalled/reinstalled in my new home...

 

Chuck

 

It's best to factory reset your Insteon devices including the PLM and then link them to the ISY.  Make sure that your ISY firmware and the Admin console are the same version

 

Your devices could have links left over from your previous system which could be problematic.

Be sure to eliminate or filter any powerline devices that could be interfering with the Insteon signals such as power supplies, UPS, etc.

[ahwman]

It's best to factory reset your Insteon devices including the PLM and then link them to the ISY.  Make sure that your ISY firmware and the Admin console are the same version

 

Your devices could have links left over from your previous system which could be problematic.

Be sure to eliminate or filter any powerline devices that could be interfering with the Insteon signals such as power supplies, UPS, etc.

I assume it's ok to restore the ISY backup after doing the reset? So if that's the case, I would do the following:

 

• Restore ISY from backup

• Restore modem (PLM)

• Reset Insteon devices

• Link devices to PLM/ISY

 

Is this correct?

 

Thanks again,

Chuck

[larryllix]

I assume it's ok to restore the ISY backup after doing the reset? So if that's the case, I would do the following:

 

• Restore ISY from backup

• Restore modem (PLM)

• Reset Insteon devices

• Link devices to PLM/ISY

 

Is this correct?

 

Thanks again,

Chuck

I don't think factory resetting your ISY was intended in the message but that may help also.

 

I would try everything but first. If you have a fairly baron ISY it would be easy to recover with a restore.

 

Make good backups first.

[Techman]

I assume it's ok to restore the ISY backup after doing the reset? So if that's the case, I would do the following:

 

• Restore ISY from backup

• Restore modem (PLM)

• Reset Insteon devices

• Link devices to PLM/ISY

 

Is this correct?

 

Thanks again,

Chuck

Hi Chuck,

 

I'm assuming that your current install does not contain exactly the same devices that were in your previous install.

 

Restoring the ISY would restore all the devices that were installed the last time you did a back up. If the backup was done at the previous house then you should either delete all the devices from the ISY or factory reset the ISY and start with a fresh install, but not a restore ISY.

 

Are you able to access the ISY using the admin console?  Is your ISY firmware and the UI the same version?

[larryllix]

<snipped>

 

Are you able to access the ISY using the admin console?  Is your ISY firmware and the UI the same version?

This is important!

[stusviews]

As Techman indicated, the ISY will attempt to re-establish each and every link from the previous installation. Either reinstall every device first or delete all devices, reset them and start anew.

[ahwman]

Success. Thanks for the help folks. Resetting the ISY wasn't necessary as I simply deleted all of the devices in it and started from scratch. The only bummer is that I realized that I left the magnetic key for my outletlinc dimmer on the lamp at my old house. So now I just get a blinking red light when I turn it on... I'm not sure what the point of that key is for other than to lose...

 

Chuck

[stusviews]

The key alone is available for a few dollars. The need for the key is safety. The code does not allow an outlet to be controlled by a dimmer in the event someone inadvertently plugs in a non-dimmable load such as a vacuum Doing so may cause the vacuum motor to overheat and cause a fire. An exception is when the outlet is designed to prevent that from happening. In the past, some outlets had a specially shaped plug and receptacle so that only that specific lamp would fit.

 

Insteon Labs overcame the restriction by designing a magnetic key that prevented anything from receiving power from the outlet unless the key was in place.

[ahwman]

The key alone is available for a few dollars. The need for the key is safety. The code does not allow an outlet to be controlled by a dimmer in the event someone inadvertently plugs in a non-dimmable load such as a vacuum Doing so may cause the vacuum motor to overheat and cause a fire. An exception is when the outlet is designed to prevent that from happening. In the past, some outlets had a specially shaped plug and receptacle so that only that specific lamp would fit.

 

Insteon Labs overcame the restriction by designing a magnetic key that prevented anything from receiving power from the outlet unless the key was in place.

Excellent explanation. Thanks so much for sharing as it does make sense after all...

 

Chuck