Many comm issues with devices

[andrew77]

Hi guys;

 

I don't know where to start.

 

I thought I had to replace my PLM so I did.

 

I was still getting faults etc so i bought another PLM (not a big deal as I was able to return the first replacement)

 

I'm getting issues all over the place but let me be specific.

 

I have very simple scenes triggered by KPL buttons that won't trigger.

 

I have a KPL button set as non toggle off that stays lit (the LED) no matter what I do.

 

I don't know what to do right now.

I've tried deleting the devices that seem to cause problems and re add them to the ISY but the issues remain.

 

I've reset the devices and re added them still problematic.

 

I'd blame the device but it happens on different devices (with different issues)

 

I've not had any comm issues or noise for years. Solid as a rock.

 

Now that I've replaced the PLM I'm getting issues popping up everywhere it seems.

 

Any thoughts would be great.

 

I've had a few threads trying to figure out whats going on with a certain program but I think this is bigger than this.

 

It may also just be me but it seems the ISY is slow to program (write) 

That could be my frustration but I thought I'd mention it

 

Drew

[Teken]

1. Confirm proper coupling / bridging of the Insteon network via the 4 tap beacon test outlined in the full users manual for any Insteon device.

 

2. Air gap all the devices in the home or turn off all the breakers in the home for at least 10 seconds.

 

3. Perform a *Restore Device* one by one and report back.

 

4. Unplug all electronic devices in the home and issue the scene command. What are the results? If fine plug in one single item and see the results.

 

Nothing wrong?

 

Continue adding one more electronic device until you see an issue. Keep in mind steps 1 & 2 should be done first while you conduct the scene test while plugging in electronic gear. 

[stusviews]

Create a scene that has only the button as a member. Create a program that has the button press as a trigger (If) and turns off the scene as an action (Then). Place a 2 second wait before the action. Here's a snippet of a program:

If
        Control 'DR / Devices / DR Side Door Light / DR Side Door B Dine Out' is switched Off
 
Then
        Wait  2 seconds
        Set Scene 'Dine Out Buttons' Off
 
Else
   - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')
 
 

[andrew77]

Hi guys;

 

I'll try that tomorrow. Its getting late and I'm tired of running up and down stairs.

Although it is helping with my girlish figure.

 

Since I posted the above I tried making a different KPL button the all off non toggle off trigger ( on a different KPL) and it works.

And now the original All off KPL button on the original KPL works too.

I'm not sure I understand that at all.

 

I also have a program where I press a SWL off when it is off and it should turn on three lights.

Sometimes it only turns on one or two. 

Other times I press it again and again and it finally triggers the program properly.

 

Again, I haven't had comm issues for years (in fact since I had an old PC that was the problem)

 

I've put in a few LED lights but that doesn't seem to be it (the LED lights are in the off position anyway)

 

That's the only difference except a new PLM.

[andrew77]

So I've done more testing and it seems I'm having comm issues with one KPL mainly. To test this I want to switch two KPLs

 

Is there an easy way to do this?

 

Drew

[Teken]

So I've done more testing and it seems I'm having comm issues with one KPL mainly. To test this I want to switch two KPLs

 

Is there an easy way to do this?

 

Drew

 

Sure, if your intent is to *Literally* replace one with the other than all you need to do is add the new hardware into the controller. Once its there you can use the *Replace With* option by right mouse clicking.

 

Please follow and read the pop ups and don't do anything until the system closes the Admin Console.

[andrew77]

I'm hoping to switch two existing KPLs.

[Teken]

I'm hoping to switch two existing KPLs.

 

Meaning (A) KPL is in the wall and you have ( B ) standing by to replace (A)?

[andrew77]

I don't have an extra KPL that isn't in use right now (they're all wired into the wall)

 

What I'm hoping to do is take the KPL I use in my Office and switch it with the KPL from Upstairs to further trouble shoot the upstairs KPL that seems to be failing

[Teken]

I don't have an extra KPL that isn't in use right now (they're all wired into the wall)

 

What I'm hoping to do is take the KPL I use in my Office and switch it with the KPL from Upstairs to further trouble shoot the upstairs KPL that seems to be failing

 

Well, it can certainly be done but any programs / scenes will need to be removed before doing so. Otherwise you will be in a world of hurt later on.

[andrew77]

I thought so.

So theres no easy way to switch two KPLs in use.

Save for maybe factory resetting one of them and then use the Replace with function to at least save reprogramming one of the KPLs?

[Teken]

I thought so.

So theres no easy way to switch two KPLs in use.

Save for maybe factory resetting one of them and then use the Replace with function to at least save reprogramming one of the KPLs?

 

No, you can simply use the *Restore Device* if you hard reset the KPL. But before you go that route please do some easy things like air gap the device for 10 seconds. Next replace the load with a standard incandescent bulb and see if what ever problem you see is gone.

 

Simple and takes under 60 seconds . . . 

[andrew77]

I've tried Air gapping.

 

I'll try replacing the load with a different bulb.

It has a regular incandescent bulb in it now though.

Would that matter?

[Teken]

I've tried Air gapping.

 

I'll try replacing the load with a different bulb.

It has a regular incandescent bulb in it now though.

Would that matter?

 

Hello Drew,

 

Can we define what exactly is the problem you see and observe? If the load indeed has a standard incandescent bulb I don't see that being the issue unless its defective. But give it a shot but I would encourage you to perform the 4 tap beacon test as outlined in the full users manual to confirm proper coupling / bridging.

 

Can you let me know what the exact model number is of this KPL? Also does this KPL have the diagnostic dual color LED in the set button?

[andrew77]

(2334-2) KeypadLinc Dimmer 8 Buttons v.44

 

​I believe the set button does flash green at times and I've seen it flash red.

Is that what you mean by diagnostic dual colour?

 

I've reviewed the KPL manual PDF and I'm unclear what the 4 tap test is.

 

If I right click on the KPL A button I do see a PLM Communication window.

Is that it?

[andrew77]

I'm sorry. I didn't answer all the questions.

 

It seems that scenes and programs are temperamental with this particular KPL.

 

The load works fine.

Some scenes are fine.

 

But an ALL OFF program doesn't work on it whereas it works fine on other KPLs.

Same goes for a Night Scene.

[Teken]

(2334-2) KeypadLinc Dimmer 8 Buttons v.44

 

​I believe the set button does flash green at times and I've seen it flash red.

Is that what you mean by diagnostic dual colour?

 

I've reviewed the KPL manual PDF and I'm unclear what the 4 tap test is.

 

If I right click on the KPL A button I do see a PLM Communication window.

Is that it?

 

Perfect, now all you need to do is remove the cover and use a pencil with the rubber eraser or something blunt like a pair of chop sticks.

 

Press the clear set button (very quickly) 4 times . . .

 

If you did this correctly it will beep and flash this will tell you that specific unit is *Sending* a beacon to all Insteon devices in range via RF. Go up stairs and let me know what color that KPL indicates if its green that means its wired to the opposite electrical leg as the other.

 

If it blinks red its on the same leg of the service panel . . .

 

Next, if you walk around and see other Insteon devices which are green this is good!

[andrew77]

I don't think all my instead devices are as new as that KPL.

 

Should they still flash red or green?

(I'm assuming no)

 

The test made the KPL set button stay solid green

It kept beeping until I pressed it again.

 

I ran around the house and no other set buttons were any colour and no flashing

except for a SWL downstairs where the up and down LEDs were flashing but not the set button

 

Is this helpful?

 

Should I try the PLM communication window I mentioned earlier? Or does that not apply here?

[Teken]

I don't think all my instead devices are as new as that KPL.

 

Should they still flash red or green?

(I'm assuming no)

 

The test made the KPL set button stay solid green

It kept beeping until I pressed it again.

 

I ran around the house and no other set buttons were any colour and no flashing

except for a SWL downstairs where the up and down LEDs were flashing but not the set button

 

Is this helpful?

 

Should I try the PLM communication window I mentioned earlier? Or does that not apply here?

 

Hello Drew,

 

As noted the 4 tap beacon test must be referenced to the full users manual for the hardware in place. As you will quickly notice different years of hardware will display a different method of same leg / opposite leg.

 

As you saw the newer KPL has and uses a dual color LED to indicate same leg / opposite leg. If the test KPL LED was solid green you didn't press the clear set button fast enough.

 

You will find this 4 tap beacon test will require quick fingers and patience and this is why I recommend using a rubber eraser or some dull tool to engage the clear set button.

 

Using your finger is a exercise in hair pulling and increased blood pressure! 

 

NOTE: Only newer Insteon devices will flash the *Set Button* other SWL hardware will blink the bottom LED pipe. Older KPL will blink the four grid buttons, and the Access Point (AP) will offer several different options so the manual must be used for reference.

[stusviews]

The 2334 KPL is dual-band and should respond to the 4-tap/beacon test which no longer appears in most Owner's Manuals. The trick is tapping the set button rapidly enough. I use a pocket screwdriver. You need to tap the button very rapidly exactly 4 times. No success? You were not quick enough.

[andrew77]

So I can't imagine pushing the button faster than I have.

 

Literally, 4 times in less than half a second. repeatedly 

 

Still solid green.

 

The KPL beeps constantly but solid green.

 

Theres no way anyone can do this faster.

 

Is there another test?

[stusviews]

The KPL beeps constantly but solid green.

 

If the KPL beeps constantly, then you have successfully placed it into beacon mode. Now do the same on any other dual-band device and observe the status of the LED on each device.

 

No blinking or unlit = the devices are not communicating via RF. They can still communicate via the power line.

Blinking red = the devices are communicating via RF and are on the same leg of the split, single-phase electric supply.

Blinking green= the devices are communicating via RF and are on opposite legs of the split, single-phase electric supply. Only one pair of devices are required to be communicating on opposite legs for bridging.coupling to occur. Anything beyond that increases range and reliability of the Insteon network

[andrew77]

Hi stusviews

 

Thanks for the testing background.

 

I'll try that this week (hopefully tomorrow)

 

Drew

[jtara92101]

For those that do not have split, single-phase wiring, I can confirm that the bridging and blinking signals work just the same when installed in a facility split across two phases of a three-phase feed.

 

No clue what you would see if you attempted to bridge a third phase! Fortunately, that's an uncommon situation. (Though possible in a similar situation to the fellow who recently posted who is building a duplex where his parents are moving in next door. In my building, you would encounter this situation if you had relatives move in to the condo next door, and wanted to share an Insteon installation...)

 

I'd suppose that blinking green would mean that the units are on different legs. It would take some plugging and unplugging to determine if you've covered all three.

[stusviews]

The recommendation for a 3-phase electric supply is to bridge all three phases.