oleggold Posted October 29, 2016 Posted October 29, 2016 I have high-end Delta Lighting LED lights 0-10v dimmable installed. I have a problem controlling these lights with the Insteon Ballast Dimmer 2475DA2. I don't really understand what do I need to do to configure this correctly (I am pretty sure that the wiring is correct). What I get is that lights come on about 50% if I click On and 100% if I click Fast On. I cannot find a way to dim the lights. Could someone please help? Thank you very much! P.S. I attached the screen capture which shows the options dialog , but I am not sure what needs to be done.
Teken Posted October 29, 2016 Posted October 29, 2016 As Stu noted its important to know what controls the ballast load. If its a relay on-off device you will simply have on-off levels defined as you have up top. If however you have a Insteon dimmer switch attached you can dim the ballast as expected. Having said this I am a little surprised the product can't natively dim by itself? Based on the screen capture would this device not behave like a micro relay / dimmer module? As it has direct control of the load so would expect any switch if held down to allow dim control?!?!
jtara92101 Posted October 29, 2016 Posted October 29, 2016 (edited) What controls the ballast device is in the post title - Insteon 2475DA2. http://cache.insteon.com/documentation/2475da2-en.pdf I have one, haven't deployed it yet. I would suggest disabling all that "Group" stuff. That is for controlling the ballast from switches connected to the 2 inputs. Do you have switches connected to the 2 inputs? That setup allows you to set the on/off level for the switch inputs on pins 3-4. Hardwire port triggering Group 1: triggers when switch between Pin 3 & 4 is closed Group 2: triggers when switch between Pin 3 & 4 is opened Group 3: triggers when switch between Pin 2 & 4 is closed Group 4: triggers when switch between Pin 2 & 4 is opened If you have not connected anything to the switch inputs, the only way you can control it is by adding to a scene. Then you can control the scene from the ISY console, or add a controller to the scene. Edited October 29, 2016 by jtara92101
jtara92101 Posted October 29, 2016 Posted October 29, 2016 (edited) As Stu noted its important to know what controls the ballast load. If its a relay on-off device you will simply have on-off levels defined as you have up top. If however you have a Insteon dimmer switch attached you can dim the ballast as expected. Having said this I am a little surprised the product can't natively dim by itself? Based on the screen capture would this device not behave like a micro relay / dimmer module? As it has direct control of the load so would expect any switch if held down to allow dim control?!?! The product can natively dim by itself, assuming by "the product" you mean the actual ballast. In normal use, it would be connected to a special low-voltage 0-10V dimmer switch that provides a reference voltage from 0-10V. The Insteon2475DA2 is meant to replace the special low-voltage 0-10V dimmer switch. Think of a 2475DA2 as similar to a mini or micro-dimmer. But instead of dimming a 120V line, it provides a 0-10V reference voltage to use as you please. "Ballast dimmer" is a bit of misnomer. It is a programmable source of a 0-10V reference voltage, plus 2 inputs, and 2 relays. For all it cares, you could connect it to a huge analog meter, and mark positions on the meter with "Yes", "No", "Cloudy", and "Ask Ms. Clio". It has no buttons. It does have two inputs that can connect to two buttons or contacts of your own, if you choose to do so. We went through all this a while back on some LED posts. One can purchase LED strip ballasts that are controlled by a 0-10V control signal. They can dim to 1% or better. There is an odd limitation on local control via the switch inputs. You can only program the levels to 32 steps. But apparently if you put in a scene or use a program you can get 256 steps. (Oddly states 256 states "with software"). Edited October 29, 2016 by jtara92101
stusviews Posted October 29, 2016 Posted October 29, 2016 The On Level Volts appears to be set to half the maximum which would explain the 50% that your getting. Have you tried changing the On Level Volts to the maximum?
Teken Posted October 30, 2016 Posted October 30, 2016 But to clarify if the OP has a standard none Insteon switch can he make the device fade dim? I don't believe a standard switch would allow this? Anyone? ========================= The highest calling in life is to serve ones country faithfully - Teach others what can be. Do what is right and not what is popular.
oleggold Posted October 30, 2016 Author Posted October 30, 2016 (edited) I am using 2477D (load capped) to control the ballast and/or ISY Admin Console Scene. Edited October 30, 2016 by oleggold
oleggold Posted October 30, 2016 Author Posted October 30, 2016 What are you using to control the ballast? As Stu noted its important to know what controls the ballast load. If its a relay on-off device you will simply have on-off levels defined as you have up top. If however you have a Insteon dimmer switch attached you can dim the ballast as expected. Having said this I am a little surprised the product can't natively dim by itself? Based on the screen capture would this device not behave like a micro relay / dimmer module? As it has direct control of the load so would expect any switch if held down to allow dim control?!?! What controls the ballast device is in the post title - Insteon 2475DA2. http://cache.insteon.com/documentation/2475da2-en.pdf I have one, haven't deployed it yet. I would suggest disabling all that "Group" stuff. That is for controlling the ballast from switches connected to the 2 inputs. Do you have switches connected to the 2 inputs? That setup allows you to set the on/off level for the switch inputs on pins 3-4. If you have not connected anything to the switch inputs, the only way you can control it is by adding to a scene. Then you can control the scene from the ISY console, or add a controller to the scene. But to clarify if the OP has a standard none Insteon switch can he make the device fade dim? I don't believe a standard switch would allow this? Anyone? ========================= The highest calling in life is to serve ones country faithfully - Teach others what can be. Do what is right and not what is popular. I am using 2477D (load capped) to control the ballast and/or ISY Admin Console Scene.
jtara92101 Posted October 30, 2016 Posted October 30, 2016 I am using 2477D (load capped) to control the ballast and/or ISY Admin Console Scene. Did you trying disabling the "groups"? (dialog from your first post.) I don't have a ballast for it, but I'll dig it out, put a meter on the 0-10V and play with it a bit.
jtara92101 Posted October 30, 2016 Posted October 30, 2016 (edited) WFM (= "works for me") straight out of the box. Looks like you monkeyed with the options - min volts/max volts/on level volts. Out of the box, the 4 boxes ARE checked, but the on levels are all set to 10.59 volts, and Min Volts/Max Volts all set to 0.00. You get 5 "virtual devices". Kind of like a keypadlinc. So, I have x.x.x.x Ballast Dimmer, and then 4 (groupable) "virtual devices". x.x.x.x Ballast 3-4 Closed x.x.x.x Ballast 3-4 Open x.x.x.x Ballast 2-4 Closed x.x.x.x Ballast 2-4 Open These refer to the pins on the RJ-10 modular jack. They are for connecting to local control switches. I gather, then, if you were to short, say, pins 3-4, then the "group 1" min volts/max volts/on level/ramp rate will be applied. If pings 3-4 are OPEN, then the "group 2" min volts/max volts/on level/ramp rate will be applied. I guess this would happen only on a transition? Dunno what gets applied at power-on?! Anyway, with the default settings, works ALMOST as I would expect, with an interesting twist. Set the main device "on" it goes to 10V. Set the main device "off" it goes to 0V. Set the main device to 50% - it goes to 2.36V = NOT 5V. 75% gets your apx. 5V. Some kind of modified inverse-square? a guesstimate as to how to "average" fluorescent 0-10V ballast (what this thing was originally designed for) would respond to the control voltage, such that 2.36V would give you half-brightness? Anybody recognize the curve? (I've rounded these) 10%: 0.5V 25%: 0..9V 33%: 1.25V 50%: 2.4V 66%: 3.8V 75%: 4.9V 90%: 7.25V Edited October 30, 2016 by jtara92101
jtara92101 Posted October 30, 2016 Posted October 30, 2016 (edited) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/0-10_V_lighting_control Dimming devices may be designed to respond in various patterns to the intermediate voltages, giving output curves that are linear for: voltage output, actual light output, power output, or perceived light output. Per the attached chart, 50% of light source output, would need 75% of control voltage (7.5V) but the 2475DA2 at 50% is gonna give you 2.4V. But light source output != perceived brightness, so IDK LOL... Edited October 30, 2016 by jtara92101
oleggold Posted October 30, 2016 Author Posted October 30, 2016 (edited) WFM (= "works for me") straight out of the box. Looks like you monkeyed with the options - min volts/max volts/on level volts. Out of the box, the 4 boxes ARE checked, but the on levels are all set to 10.59 volts, and Min Volts/Max Volts all set to 0.00. You get 5 "virtual devices". Kind of like a keypadlinc. So, I have x.x.x.x Ballast Dimmer, and then 4 (groupable) "virtual devices". x.x.x.x Ballast 3-4 Closed x.x.x.x Ballast 3-4 Open x.x.x.x Ballast 2-4 Closed x.x.x.x Ballast 2-4 Open These refer to the pins on the RJ-10 modular jack. They are for connecting to local control switches. I gather, then, if you were to short, say, pins 3-4, then the "group 1" min volts/max volts/on level/ramp rate will be applied. If pings 3-4 are OPEN, then the "group 2" min volts/max volts/on level/ramp rate will be applied. I guess this would happen only on a transition? Dunno what gets applied at power-on?! Anyway, with the default settings, works ALMOST as I would expect, with an interesting twist. Set the main device "on" it goes to 10V. Set the main device "off" it goes to 0V. Set the main device to 50% - it goes to 2.36V = NOT 5V. 75% gets your apx. 5V. Some kind of modified inverse-square? a guesstimate as to how to "average" fluorescent 0-10V ballast (what this thing was originally designed for) would respond to the control voltage, such that 2.36V would give you half-brightness? Anybody recognize the curve? (I've rounded these) 10%: 0.5V 25%: 0..9V 33%: 1.25V 50%: 2.4V 66%: 3.8V 75%: 4.9V 90%: 7.25V Thank you very much for your response. I have two ballasts. I reset them to factory settings and measured the DC voltage on the control wires: First ballast: 0% 2.35v 10% 2.41 20% 2.44 30% 2.46 40% 2.51 50% 2.57 60% 2.65 70% 2.73 80% 2.86 90% 3.20 Second ballast for some reason does not change the control voltage -- it stays at 19.6v regardless of the current state values! I have no idea why I get the above numbers. Maybe the ballasts are bad (I had the contractor's electrician play with them before he gave up). Edited October 30, 2016 by oleggold
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