Adjust Local On Level

[zerop]

I do exactly what you want to do but I do it with my closet lights.  What you want to do has to be done using a scene.

 

All you need to do is add your device "Master Bathroom Light" to its own scene as a controller (call the scene "Master Light Adjust" just as an example) then adjust the scene based on the time of day.  Make sure when you select the scene to adjust, don't adjust the scene "Master Light Adjust" but instead adjust/select the actual device itself "Master Bathroom Light" as that is the controller.

 

 

Example:

 

New Program - [iD 0456][Parent 0001]

 

If

        From    Sunrise

        To      11:00:00PM (same day)

 

Then

        In Scene 'Master Bathroom Light' Set 'Master Bathroom Light' 100% (On Level)

 

Else

        In Scene 'Master Bathroom Light' Set 'Master Bathroom Light' 40% (On Level)

 

 

 

 

DO NOT DO THIS:

 

New Program - [iD 0456][Parent 0001]

 

If

        From    Sunrise

        To      11:00:00PM (same day)

 

Then

        In Scene 'Master Light Adjust' Set 'Master Bathroom Light' 100% (On Level)

 

Else

        In Scene 'Master Light Adjust' Set 'Master Bathroom Light' 40% (On Level)

Edited December 5, 2016 by zerop

[stusviews]

 

I do exactly what you want to do but I do it with my closet lights.  What you want to do has to be done using a scene.

 

All you need to do is add your device "Master Bathroom Light" to its own scene as a controller (call the scene "Master Light Adjust" just as an example) then adjust the scene based on the time of day.  Make sure when you select the scene to adjust, don't adjust the scene "Master Light Adjust" but instead adjust/select the actual device itself "Master Bathroom Light" as that is the controller.

 

 

Example:

 

New Program - [iD 0456][Parent 0001]

 

If

        From    Sunrise

        To      11:00:00PM (same day)

 

Then

        In Scene 'Master Bathroom Light' Set 'Master Bathroom Light' 100% (On Level)

 

Else

        In Scene 'Master Bathroom Light' Set 'Master Bathroom Light' 40% (On Level)

 

 

That's precisely the concept I posted in #9

[larryllix]

He is operating the dimmer from the built in paddle in the SwitchLinc and the two devices cannot be divorced.

 

Scenes are not going to do it very well, without bright flashes with the light going on full brightness first and then a program delay to activate a scene to dim the light. In the middle of the night that is unforgivable. on the eyes.

 

Thinking back there is a better way that I have used for this.

 

 Set the local level to say..20% (for night usage) and create a program that overrides, and beats,  the 20% with a fast On during the day time

The level can be set in the admin console with the device's webpage page.

 

If

...SwitchLinc is switched On

...And

...from 7:00 AM

...to 11:00 PM (same day)

 

Then

...set SwitchLinc 'Fast On'

Else

...--

[G W]

He is operating the dimmer from the built in paddle in the SwitchLinc and the two devices cannot be divorced.

 

Scenes are not going to do it very well, without bright flashes with the light going on full brightness first and then a program delay to activate a scene to dim the light. In the middle of the night that is unforgivable. on the eyes.

 

Thinking back there is a better way that I have used for this.

 

Set the local level to say..20% (for night usage) and create a program that overrides, and beats, the 20% with a fast On during the day time

The level can be set in the admin console with the device's webpage page.

 

If

...SwitchLinc is switched On

...And

...from 7:00 AM

...to 11:00 PM (same day)

 

Then

...set SwitchLinc 'Fast On'

Else

...--

And that's what I suggested in post #3.

 

It sure take you guys a long time to catch up.

 

Gary Funk (Joke removed at the request of one user)

[larryllix]

I'm at v4.5.4.  The pulldown that larryllix is trying to show me definitely is not there.

My apologies!

 

I went to v5.0.x as soon as it came out over a year ago, and I would have  (and did) swear those options were there in V4 and earlier.

 

Sorry I wasted your time with a solution that wasn't going to work for you.

[zerop]

That's precisely the concept I posted in #9

 

Yes, I saw you posted that but I thought the OP needed a bit more detail than what you provided on how to create the program.

 

Edit to add:  On second review of your suggested program in post # 9, it is also incorrect.  You are adjusting the scene not the device in the scene.

 

For yours to work the way the OP wants it should be like this:

 

 

KT Ceiling

If

        From    Sunrise

        To       1:00:00AM (next day)

 

Then

        In Scene 'KT / Scenes / KT Light' 'KT / Devices / KT Ceiling 50' Set 'KT / Devices / KT Ceiling 50' 50% (On Level)

 

Else

        In Scene 'KT / Scenes / KT Light' 'KT / Devices / KT Ceiling 50' Set 'KT / Devices / KT Ceiling 50' 10% (On Level)

Edited December 5, 2016 by zerop

[zerop]

He is operating the dimmer from the built in paddle in the SwitchLinc and the two devices cannot be divorced.

 

Scenes are not going to do it very well, without bright flashes with the light going on full brightness first and then a program delay to activate a scene to dim the light. In the middle of the night that is unforgivable. on the eyes.

 

I don't have this problem at all.  I hit the paddle and all I get is the 20% on level that the scene is set for.  This switch is the only switch for the lights so it is obviously the load.  It works perfectly for me.

[zerop]

He is operating the dimmer from the built in paddle in the SwitchLinc and the two devices cannot be divorced.

 

Scenes are not going to do it very well, without bright flashes with the light going on full brightness first and then a program delay to activate a scene to dim the light. In the middle of the night that is unforgivable. on the eyes.

 

Also, I'm not sure I agree with you on this (unless I misunderstood what you are trying to say).  Say you have a 3-way light set-up in a scene.  Both paddle switches are set as controllers.  If you set each controller in the scene to an on level of 50% and hit the paddle on, on the switch that has the load, you don't get full lights (100%) then 50%.  Isn't this the whole idea to using scenes?  What the difference if you're using 1 switch or 2 in a 3-way set-up?  You should get the same results.

Edited December 5, 2016 by zerop

[larryllix]

I don't have this problem at all.  I hit the paddle and all I get is the 20% on level that the scene is set for.  This switch is the only switch for the lights so it is obviously the load.  It works perfectly for me.

Your program adjusts the levels in a scene only. The paddle only operates the dimmer using the local levels set elsewhere. They are different presets.

 

Are you using another program that activates the scene with the levels you changed?

 

This is not the technique Gary mentioned and I posted the program for. There are no scenes used.

[zerop]

Your program adjusts the levels in a scene only. The paddle only operates the dimmer using the local levels set elsewhere. They are different presets.

 

Are you using another program that activates the scene with the levels you changed?

 

This is not the technique Gary mentioned and I posted the program for. There are no scenes used.

 

The paddle doesn't operate only the dimmer using the local control it also operates the scene that the paddle is in.  It just happens to be the only device (itself) in the scene.  I have only one program.  The one that I posted above for the OP to use.

Edited December 5, 2016 by zerop

[carealtor]

Thank you everybody.  Especially zerop for walking me throught it step by step (post #26).  I got it working and it works perfectly.

 

I never dreamed this would stir up so much discussion!  I really had a hard time wrapping my head around zerop's solution, but it does work.

 

My apologies to those who offered the same solution, but then I didn't grasp it.

[larryllix]

Also, I'm not sure I agree with you on this (unless I misunderstood what you are trying to say).  Say you have a 3-way light set-up in a scene.  Both paddle switches are set as controllers.  If you set each controller in the scene to an on level of 50% and hit the paddle on, on the switch that has the load, you don't get full lights (100%) then 50%.  Isn't this the whole idea to using scenes?  What the difference if you're using 1 switch or 2 in a 3-way set-up?  You should get the same results.

1. You cannot have a SwitchLinc in a scene both as a controller and a responder. ISY won't allow you to place it in the scene once it has been entered as either type. It would never be required as the paddle always operates it's own dimmer circuitry and cannot be affected by outside influences, except for the local preset settings.

 

2. A scene created with only a controller doesn't control anything. Local switching is not a scene preset and the two are not related. Local controls have their own presets that are not affected by a separate scene's settings.

 

3 . As an experiment I have created a scene with only a controller. I have created a test program that changes the controller settings inside the scene. I ran the program Then, and also Else, changing the controller settings the scene, I have posted many threads explaining this technique to people, in the past. The local settings of the SwitchLinc were not affected in any way, and the SwitchLinc only responded with 100% brilliance each time, where the local setting was last left. The ramp speed was not affected either.

 

However, when I run the local preset program I normally use the local settings were changed and the paddle taps respond accordingly.

 

This technique works well for a scene with a separate controller like an MS and a SwitchLinc responder, but not for a scene with no responder on my v5.0.7. ISY.

http://forum.universal-devices.com/topic/17495-how-to-use-a-ms-with-lights/?hl=%2Bxathros+%2Btechnique

 

 

Here is my test program used to operate the scene with no responder.

Ensuite Lights Level.adjust.scene method - [ID 014A][Parent 00FA][Not Enabled]

If
        From    Sunrise
        To      10:00:00PM (same day)
 
Then
        In Scene 'Master Bedroom / Ensuite Lights.scene' Set 'Master Bedroom / Ensuite Lights' 100% (On Level)
        In Scene 'Master Bedroom / Ensuite Lights.scene' Set 'Master Bedroom / Ensuite Lights' 0.5 Sec (Ramp Rate)
 
Else
        In Scene 'Master Bedroom / Ensuite Lights.scene' Set 'Master Bedroom / Ensuite Lights' 20% (On Level)
        In Scene 'Master Bedroom / Ensuite Lights.scene' Set 'Master Bedroom / Ensuite Lights' 4.5 Sec (Ramp Rate)
 

[stusviews]

The ISY does not have a provision for a device to be only a scene controller, if it's a controller, then it's also a responder. A device can be a scene responder only, however. It this different for version 5?

[carealtor]

 

1. You cannot have a SwitchLinc in a scene both as a controller and a responder. ISY won't allow you to place it in the scene once it has been entered as either type. It would never be required as the paddle always operates it's own dimmer circuitry and cannot be affected by outside influences, except for the local preset settings.

 

2. A scene created with only a controller doesn't control anything. Local switching is not a scene preset and the two are not related. Local controls have their own presets that are not affected by a separate scene's settings.

 

3 . As an experiment I have created a scene with only a controller. I have created a test program that changes the controller settings inside the scene. I ran the program Then, and also Else, changing the controller settings the scene, I have posted many threads explaining this technique to people, in the past. The local settings of the SwitchLinc were not affected in any way, and the SwitchLinc only responded with 100% brilliance each time, where the local setting was last left. The ramp speed was not affected either.

 

However, when I run the local preset program I normally use the local settings were changed and the paddle taps respond accordingly.

 

This technique works well for a scene with a separate controller like an MS and a SwitchLinc responder, but not for a scene with no responder on my v5.0.7. ISY.

http://forum.universal-devices.com/topic/17495-how-to-use-a-ms-with-lights/?hl=%2Bxathros+%2Btechnique

 

 

Here is my test program used to operate the scene with no responder.

Ensuite Lights Level.adjust.scene method - [ID 014A][Parent 00FA][Not Enabled]

If
        From    Sunrise
        To      10:00:00PM (same day)
 
Then
        In Scene 'Master Bedroom / Ensuite Lights.scene' Set 'Master Bedroom / Ensuite Lights' 100% (On Level)
        In Scene 'Master Bedroom / Ensuite Lights.scene' Set 'Master Bedroom / Ensuite Lights' 0.5 Sec (Ramp Rate)
 
Else
        In Scene 'Master Bedroom / Ensuite Lights.scene' Set 'Master Bedroom / Ensuite Lights' 20% (On Level)
        In Scene 'Master Bedroom / Ensuite Lights.scene' Set 'Master Bedroom / Ensuite Lights' 4.5 Sec (Ramp Rate)
 

 

In the "In Scene" dropdown there is a list with both devices (that are controllers) and scenes.  Despite the label "In Scene", you need to select the device in order for this to work

[larryllix]

The ISY does not have a provision for a device to be only a scene controller, if it's a controller, then it's also a responder. A device can be a scene responder only, however. It this different for version 5?

Nope. V5 hasn't changed the Insteon protocol.

 

My SwitchLinc paddles are not responders, only controllers.

Buttons on my plug-in devices are not responders and either are my KPL buttons.

Is this some shortcoming in the Insteon protocol you refer to?

 

ISY doesn't add devices to scenes with that style. At least not indicated. Does this show up in the devices links when you add then as a controller to a scene?

[larryllix]

In the "In Scene" dropdown there is a list with both devices (that are controllers) and scenes. Despite the label "In Scene", you need to select the device in order for this to work

Yup

http://forum.universal-devices.com/topic/17495-how-to-use-a-ms-with-lights/?hl=%2Bxathros+%2Btechnique

 

If this actually works there will be a lot of really happy people but it doesn't work in v5.0.7.

 

Anybody else test or use this technique?

Edited December 5, 2016 by larryllix

[stusviews]

The Insteon protocol allows a device in a scene to be either a controller only, a responder only or both a controller and a responder (if the device can be both). The ISY does not have that capability. In particular, if a device is a scene controller, then it's also a responder to that scene. But a device can be a scene responder without being a scene controller.

[larryllix]

The Insteon protocol allows a device in a scene to be either a controller only, a responder only or both a controller and a responder (if the device can be both). The ISY does not have that capability. In particular, if a device is a scene controller, then it's also a responder to that scene. But a device can be a scene responder without being a scene controller.

Here is a UDI wiki document explaining what you are describing.

https://wiki.universal-devices.com/index.php?title=ISY-99i/ISY-26_INSTEON:Working_With_Scenes_-_in-depth_tutorial#INSTEON_Devices_and_Local_Settings

 

It also explains that the controller/responder device does not respond with the settings from the scene but only from it's own local settings when it's local button/paddle is activated to cause the scene to be activated.

 

The SwitchLinc is described as a controller and responder also (as you stated) but it doesn't respond to scene activation.

 

The docs also mentions devices that are only controllers and not responders.

Edited December 5, 2016 by larryllix

[stusviews]

The SwitchLinc is described as a controller and responder also (as you stated) but it doesn't respond to scene activation.

 

Not so. For example, if you add two SwitchLincs as scene controllers, then both will respond if either SwitchLinc is turned on or off. But if you add one as a responder, then that one will not control the other one. It's not possible to add a SwitchLinc as a controller only.

 

OTOH, if I use any other software or the Hub, then I can make the SwitchLinc be a controller only. It will not respond to the other device.

[carealtor]

Yup

http://forum.universal-devices.com/topic/17495-how-to-use-a-ms-with-lights/?hl=%2Bxathros+%2Btechnique

 

If this actually works there will be a lot of really happy people but it doesn't work in v5.0.7.

 

Anybody else test or use this technique?

 

Well, I'm sorry, but I don't know what to tell you.  It sure looks to me like you selected a scene in your test program as evidenced by the ".scene" in the "In Scene" section of the action.  I have a device there.  The same device as in the "Set" portion of the action as I do in the "In Scene" portion of the action.  And it works.  You either have a scene selected or a different device that curiously has a name ending in ".scene".  I'm at v4.5.4.  I have no idea what v5 looks like.

[carealtor]

It does seem they have changed the menu selection with v5 somewhat.

 

However the basic technique remains the same. You have to use the "adjust scene" first menu.

Then instead of selecting a real scene in the second menu you select a controller device.

Then you can select the device to change the parameters for in the third menu.

 

I would like to see a screen shot of your program and selection menu, if you could.

 

Thanks!

 

[larryllix]

Well, I'm sorry, but I don't know what to tell you.  It sure looks to me like you selected a scene in your test program as evidenced by the ".scene" in the "In Scene" section of the action.  I have a device there.  The same device as in the "Set" portion of the action as I do in the "In Scene" portion of the action.  And it works.  You either have a scene selected or a different device that curiously has a name ending in ".scene".  I'm at v4.5.4.  I have no idea what v5 looks like.

Bingo! You hit the nail on the head. I was selcting my scene contrary to what I was tooting to everybody else a year ago Son of a b... I got caught on my own stuff. grrr...

 

 

At this point, totally embarrassed, I have to thank you, carealtor for being so stubburn and persisting with my education. I was always informed you could do this. Thanks!!!

 

A also have to thank zerop for posting the idea in the first place. I didn't know you could do this with one device in a scene. It totally does make sense, user wise but again I was misinformed a device couldn't do this. Thanks so much!

 

Stu. Thank you also for being so persistent in my education.

 

After all that I realise I don't need the technique with v5 as the On level and ramping are settable without scenes. probably doing the exact same codes behind the scenes, I would be sure.

 

I have to reread that UDI documentation again. I believe they are stating it incorrectly, supporting my original ideas.

[larryllix]

MasterBathroomNight.jpg

See my previous admission!

 

I am so glad this was workable in v4.x for you.

 

Yes I was using the scene, as you persisted and got caught doing the opposite of my own preachings from a year ago.

 

Sorry to have eaten your time on this. I goofed up twice here, badly.

 

I use this technique for dula device scenes but never one. With v5, I don't need it though.

[carealtor]

Bingo! You hit the nail on the head. I was selcting my scene contrary to what I was tooting to everybody else a year ago Son of a b... I got caught on my own stuff. grrr...

 

 

At this point, totally embarrassed, I have to thank you, carealtor for being so stubburn and persisting with my education. I was always informed you could do this. Thanks!!!

 

A also have to thank zerop for posting the idea in the first place. I didn't know you could do this with one device in a scene. It totally does make sense, user wise but again I was misinformed a device couldn't do this. Thanks so much!

 

Stu. Thank you also for being so persistent in my education.

 

After all that I realise I don't need the technique with v5 as the On level and ramping are settable without scenes. probably doing the exact same codes behind the scenes, I would be sure.

 

I have to reread that UDI documentation again. I believe they are stating it incorrectly, supporting my original ideas.

 

Lol.  Me? Stubburn?  I do believe my wife would agree with you on that.

[larryllix]

Lol.  Me? Stubburn?  I do believe my wife would agree with you on that.

Now I can delete a dozen test programs and a couple of test scenes.

 

Then we wonder how we get bad links in devices. LOL