Insteon A19 lights only intermittently working with ISY-944

[mclowejr]

Hello all,

 

I've searched the forum and haven't found a similar issue so I thought I'd ask because I'm flat stumped.  I have an ISY-944 that I've had for some time.  I have 15 of the Insteon LED A19 bulbs and a few switches.  The switches still operate fine but the LED lights are frequently not responding to commands to turn on or off.  The ISY is indicating it is receiving errors communicating with only a couple of the lights.  When I give a command to turn on, generally the ISY will say the lights have turned on but they remain off.  Sometimes they do respond and come on.  It's the same problem when I try to turn them off. 

 

When the ISY says they've turned on, then I query the light it will reset and give the correct off indication.  The switches still work so I don't think it's a PLM issue (but could be wrong).  I did have to replace my PLM about 6 months ago (first one bit the dust).  After that I was able to get all scenes and devices to work properly.

 

I discovered the problem when trying to get the Amazon Echo to control my scenes.  I noticed Alexa would say okay when told to turn them on but they wouldn't come on.  While investigating further I realized the lights aren't responding reliably to the admin control either.

 

Any ideas?  Are all my lights going bad at the same time?  The lights are about 4 years old now.  I do have a couple lights that I think actually have gone bad but to have the other 12 all die at the same time seems too coincidental.

 

Additional info:

firmware and UI both 4.5.4.

 

Thanks for any help or suggestions you may have.

[stusviews]

What else is on the same circuit as the problematic bulbs? Is it always the same bulbs that give the problem? Do you have any bulbs that always respond correctly?

[larryllix]

I would start by screwing out one Insteon bulb, at a time, an test other bulbs from ISY.

 

When done screw that bulb back in to keep the power supplies warm. This could be a capacitor or other component going bad from the heat.

 

Move to the next bulb and do the same. If the problem ever goes away you may have cooled off a bulb and you will have to start again another time.

 

Along this same vein of reasoning, do the bulbs do this when just turned on and cooler?

 

Failing that try other components on the same electrical circuit and work your way through the house looking for noise makers.

[mclowejr]

Sometimes it's all the bulbs that don't respond, sometimes it's just a few (and not always the same ones).  This problem happens from the very first time I try to turn them on (after they've been off all night and are nice and cool). 

 

I will have to try unscrewing bulbs.  How long should I leave them out before screwing them back in to test?

 

Also, the bulbs are the only ones on that circuit.  The bulbs are on my outside wall (under a waterproof sconce with bottom open).

 

Thanks!

[stusviews]

Ensure that the bulb is lit before unscrewing it.

[Teken]

On the base of the bulb can you offer what it says is the hardware revision and production date along with what the ISY Series Controller indicates as the firmware for the LED bulb hardware.

 

Assuming the little white sticker didn't fall off its affixed to the outer base of the housing just before the screw down. 

[mclowejr]

Thank you for your help.  I tried removing bulb by bulb with no change.  It still seems to be very intermittent on whether the bulbs respond to an on or off command.  On the bulb I found the following info:

 

Model 2672-222

IC: 5202A-26722

 

A smaller sticker simply says R2.1

 

I appreciate the efforts.  Any ideas? 

[stusviews]

Do any of the problematic bulbs behave when powered from an different circuit. A lamp will allow you to try different circuits.

[mclowejr]

I will try moving the bulb to a different circuit and see if the problem continues with that lamp.  Some additional info.  I noticed tonight that a couple of my bulbs stop responding and will start randomly flashing.  I have had 3 bulbs now fully stop responding and are always off.  I will try them in a different circuit to see if they have gone bad.  Does anyone know the operating life of these bulbs?  The LED light part should last years but I'm not sure about the circuitry.  Perhaps I have many bulbs going out at the same time causing my problem.  I have 15 of the Insteon bulbs on my perimeter wall circuit. 

 

If they are indeed going bad, does anyone have a recommendation on a different setup?  I chose the Insteons because I do not have a dedicated switch for this circuit and am using the Insteon ISY controllable feature as my switch. 

 

Thank you again.

[stusviews]

Having 15 LED bulbs on one circuit can be problematic due to the high current start up requires. It's best the stagger starting, easily accomplished with a program. That doesn't address your current situation.

 

I haven't seen any trend that indicates that the Insteon bulbs have a short life. Delete a bulb that stopped responding. Try adding it back using a lamp. Ensure that the lamp switch is off, screw in a bulb and apply power using the lamp switch. Any success?

[mclowejr]

Update.  I brought several bulbs in and tried them in a lamp.  I have a few bulbs that seem to consistently respond and they did so in the lamp as well.  I have some bulbs that will not illuminate at all and they would not in the lamp.  I have 2-3 that will turn on but will flash randomly.  They continued this behavior in the lamp as well.  I also noticed in my admin console that several of the lights had their ramp rates changed to 9 minutes (those that were not responding properly) and one had its on level set to 0% (a bulb that was not responding).  Correcting these settings did not correct the bulb behavior.  It seems the bulbs continue to fail to work properly even on a different circuit. 

 

One of my bulbs that was flashing randomly seems to have stopped flashing after it was on for about 5 minutes.  That bulb (in a lamp circuit, not its original wall sconce) now seems to be responding appropriately to commands.

 

Any other thoughts?  Again, I am very appreciative of your help.  I certainly would have no idea where to go with this.

[Teken]

The next step is to delete one of the problem bulbs. Once done add it back and report back if it operated as expected. If it doesn't it could be bad.

 

 

=========================

 

The highest calling in life is to serve ones country faithfully - Teach others what can be. Do what is right and not what is popular.

[stusviews]

The LED bulbs do have a two year warranty.

[Teken]

The LED bulbs do have a two year warranty.

Bulbs are 4 years old now. ☹️

[stusviews]

Oops, I missed that

[larryllix]

Update.  I brought several bulbs in and tried them in a lamp.  I have a few bulbs that seem to consistently respond and they did so in the lamp as well.  I have some bulbs that will not illuminate at all and they would not in the lamp.  I have 2-3 that will turn on but will flash randomly.  They continued this behavior in the lamp as well.  I also noticed in my admin console that several of the lights had their ramp rates changed to 9 minutes (those that were not responding properly) and one had its on level set to 0% (a bulb that was not responding).  Correcting these settings did not correct the bulb behavior.  It seems the bulbs continue to fail to work properly even on a different circuit. 

 

One of my bulbs that was flashing randomly seems to have stopped flashing after it was on for about 5 minutes.  That bulb (in a lamp circuit, not its original wall sconce) now seems to be responding appropriately to commands.

 

Any other thoughts?  Again, I am very appreciative of your help.  I certainly would have no idea where to go with this.

That sounds like components in the bulbs are basically done. Probably PS capacitors.

After some sit on charge and warm up some they work properly for a while again.

 

Time to replace is my guess. I have avoided Insteon smart bulbs as much as possible. I do have Hue bulbs and some MiLight bulbs though.

 

Just as the CFLs found out, the life of an electronic bulb is usually short by mounting it upside down from the ceiling. The electronics in the base are then subjected to lots of heat from the main element, in this case LED but they do get hot when the heat is not taken away. Thus the bulbs with all the huge heat sink fins all the way around. I don't know if this is a factor in your case.

[mclowejr]

So... I deleted the bulbs that were not responding properly and tried to add them back in.  3 bulbs that would not respond at all would not recognize and couldn't be added back.  The 3 that were responding so-so have now begun to behave once the 3 others were removed.  I now have 12 of 15 bulbs behaving properly.  Looks like the 3 bad bulbs may have been interfering with the others somehow.  Is this possible or do I still have a problem that will creep in again?  Looks like I just need to replace 3 bulbs.  That's much better than 15.

 

Also, Alexa (or Izzy) is now appropriately controlling all my scenes. 

 

Success thanks to the forum!

[G W]

It seems you have solved the issue.

 

I'm Gary Funk and I approved this message.

[stusviews]

Yes, it's entirely possible that one or more problem devices on a circuit can affect all devices on that circuit.

 

BTW, you don't need to invoke IZZY to control scenes, only Alexa. You do need IZZY to control locks and run the IF conditions for programs.

[mclowejr]

Thanks for the tip.  Alexa works better without having to talk to Izzy.  Seems they had a bit of a telephone game going on. 

 

Thank you to all for your help with this. I was completely stumped.