Dimmers not being set to correct level by scene

[marksidell]

OK, this is a strange, new, problem. I'm running ISY software 4.5.4. The last several times I've created a scene containing a single KeypadLinc button and a single dimmable device, such as a LampLinc or a SwitchLinc, when I turn on the scene with the KeypadLinc button, the device goes to full brightness, even though in the scene I configure it to be dimmed. I've examined the scene settings, and the dim level is correct. I've also examined the device links tables, and they are correct. Finally, if I turn the scene On in the ISY admin console, the device goes to the correct level. So, it goes to full brightness incorrectly only when the scene is turned on from the KeypadLinc button.

 

I have many other scenes, containing multiple devices, that work fine.

 

Got any ideas?

[larryllix]

Maybe a multiple scene connection between the same two devices?

 

Right click on the end device in the Admin Console and select to show it's links.

Then click the compare option to have ISY's library compared with the device link list.

 

If incorrect, r.click again and do a restore.

[stusviews]

Select each device in the scene and check up on individual On-levels.

[larryllix]

Make sure you are viewing the scene levels in the scene folder and not the device local levels, found underneath, and attached, to the scene.

[marksidell]

Thank to all for the suggestions. I examined the settings for a simple scene, in which a KeypadLinc button is the controller and a SwitchLinc dimmer is the responder. (Actually they're both controllers of the scene, but I don't think that should matter.)

 

Looking at the scene in the ISY admin console, I confirmed that the SwitchLinc On Level is configured to be 35%. This is the setting for the scene, not the device's current level or local control level.

 

Next, I looked at the device links tables. Both tables correctly match the ISY settings. However, if I'm interpreting the tables correctly, it looks like the SwitchLinc entry that corresponds to the command from the KeypadLinc for the scene has a level of FF. Here are the entries for the two devices:

 

KeypadLinc 2B.9D.A0: E2 05 3D.AF.07 01 00 05

 

SwitchLinc 3D.AF.07: A2 05 2B.9D.A0 FF 1F 01

 

So I guess the question is why is the level in the device link table set to FF when the admin console definitely shows the level for the scene to be 35%?

 

I'd believe this is due to operator error if it weren't for the fact that I'm having the same problem with two other scenes I recently created.

[larryllix]

Make the SwitchLinc a responder instead of a controller.

 

AFAICT, ISY has created a method  to accommodate three-way switching, by programming the local settings in a SwitchLinc, faking scene settings, because a SwitchLinc cannot activate an internal scene from it's own paddle. This pseudo scene method allows a SwitchLinc to appear to control itself in a three-way configuration with another SwitchLinc.

 

This may not work properly with a mix of device types, namely a KPL button.

 

As a responder the scene fakery technique should not work from the SwitchLinc paddle, but should work from the KPL and ISY. Local level settings should satisfy the paddle operations.

[marksidell]

Ah, so the fact that both devices were controllers was indeed the problem. Thanks for the explanation! I was able to fake the three-way by creating two scenes, one controlled by the KPL and the other controlled by the SwitchLinc.

[stusviews]

I have several "mixed" 3-way virtual configurations. Only one scene is needed. Selecting just the scene is inadequate. You need to adjust the On-level of the responders for each controller separately

[marksidell]

Cool. I wasn't aware you could set per-controller responder levels in a single scene. I won't be home until Monday, but will try it out then.

[jtara92101]

Cool. I wasn't aware you could set per-controller responder levels in a single scene. I won't be home until Monday, but will try it out then.

 

That's not exactly how it works, though.

 

Every controller in a scene has it's own set of attributes for controlling the scene. In reality (just learned this from another post - correct me if I am wrong) ISY creates a "phantom" or "hidden" scene for each controller. The phantom scene contains everything in the scene except for it's OWN responder.

 

(Below I will use an example from my own setup - the Office Main scene, which is controlled by Office Keypad).

 

If you look at the attributes which you click on each controller within the scene, you will see all of the responders in the scene, as well as e.g. "Office Keypad [Applied Locally]" in red.

 

You'll also see there is a button to "Copy Scene Attributes From (e.g.) Office Main" 

 

The levels set by each controller can be changed independently. They will NOT automatically follow the scene attributes - you have to use the Copy button if you want them to match.

 

So, really, the only time the scene attributes are used directly would be e.g. when you activate the scene from a program. ISY does some hocus-pocus that internally makes n+1 scenes from each scene, where n is the number of controllers.

 

If you are befuddled by ramp rates or on levels that seem to "sometimes" not match what you expect, it is probably because you failed to use the "Copy Scene Attributes" buttons for each controller after you change attributes for a scene.

[stusviews]

jtara92101,

 

You concept is correct, but there are no phantom scenes. Each controller in a scene can set each responder in the scene individually. It's all visible, nothing is hidden.

[jtara92101]

jtara92101,

 

You concept is correct, but there are no phantom scenes. Each controller in a scene can set each responder in the scene individually. It's all visible, nothing is hidden.

 

Ah, I was paraphrasing a recent post by somebody else. I may have misunderstood it, or it may have been wrong.

 

I found a useful description of insteon groups/scenes.

 

http://insteonsoftware.com/Groups-Scenes-Overview.php

 

Each responder has a table with entries that have:

 

group #

controller ID

ramp rate

on level

 

So, for each COMBINATION of group and controller, each controlled device stores unique settings.

 

"scene" really is a synthetic concept.

 

The controller just broadcasts basically "I am controller x, wanting to activate group y"