daved Posted January 9, 2017 Posted January 9, 2017 I just purchased an Insteon wireless thermostat 2441ZTH and want it to control devices based on the external temperature. I have the thermostat set to display the external temperature using the probe and it is linked to the ISY 994, but the current state or the external temperature do not show. Any help will be appreciated. Thanks
larryllix Posted January 9, 2017 Posted January 9, 2017 I just purchased an Insteon wireless thermostat 2441ZTH and want it to control devices based on the external temperature. I have the thermostat set to display the external temperature using the probe and it is linked to the ISY 994, but the current state or the external temperature do not show. Any help will be appreciated. Thanks As for any totally event triggered device, a few degrees of change must be encountered before any temperature updates will be sent. OTOH, humidity updates on a timed clock cycle. These devices should have engineered into them, an override default clock time that reports regardless. In my cold cellar I can go days with a temperature reading on ISY, and even longer for my basement, where the temperatures are controlled by a higher grade of thermostat. Use your hot breath or a hair dryer gently on the stat sensor until a few degrees of change are seen on the stat face. Then look again. If you are running v5.x you can grab the latest temperature chnage and store it into a variable and "init to" of the same variable. Now make programs that only use the variable copy. Upon power boot-up, when ISY doesn't know anything yet, the "init to" value will get copied into the variable and you will never know the difference.
daved Posted January 9, 2017 Author Posted January 9, 2017 Thanks for the info, but changing the temp on the wireless thermostat does nothing to make it show on the thermostat main screen. It doesn't look like there is even a place on that screen to show the external temp. Only current state and that doesn't show anything.
larryllix Posted January 9, 2017 Posted January 9, 2017 (edited) Thanks for the info, but changing the temp on the wireless thermostat does nothing to make it show on the thermostat main screen. It doesn't look like there is even a place on that screen to show the external temp. Only current state and that doesn't show anything. Maybe you haven't switched the logic in the 2441ZTH to external, yet. One of the mode's selections shows I or E, meaning Internal or External temperature, to be displayed on the main screen. See the manual. It's been a while now so I can remember exactly where it was, but it's in the cryptic code setup modes of the 2441ZTH. Edited January 9, 2017 by larryllix
stusviews Posted January 10, 2017 Posted January 10, 2017 (edited) IIRC, you can change the display to the external probe, but the ISY recognizes only the internal sensor. You'll need to disable the internal sensor by soldering the probe's wires in place of the internal sensor. Edited January 10, 2017 by stusviews
Brian H Posted January 10, 2017 Posted January 10, 2017 There is a thread here on how the external probe was connected where the original internal probe is normally connected. So the external probe information is sent to the ISY controller. http://forum.universal-devices.com/topic/9152-how-to-monitor-water-temp-via-isy-and-catch-more-fish/?hl=2441zth
larryllix Posted January 10, 2017 Posted January 10, 2017 (edited) There is a thread here on how the external probe was connected where the original internal probe is normally connected. So the external probe information is sent to the ISY controller. http://forum.universal-devices.com/topic/9152-how-to-monitor-water-temp-via-isy-and-catch-more-fish/?hl=2441zth Oh yeah, I forgot that part. Thanks Brian. The external temperature is sent to ISY (one or the other) but ISY has no reception code to use the external source values and it is only to integer Celsius temperatures (1.8 degrees F) Edited January 10, 2017 by larryllix
Dr Pepper Posted March 12, 2017 Posted March 12, 2017 I cannot get the temp to show in the ISY GUI or in Mobilinc. That is for the internal temp sensor not the ext. Does anyone have that working? I want to be able to view the temp for the wireless T-Stat on my phone and also use certain thresholds to act as triggers.
stusviews Posted March 12, 2017 Posted March 12, 2017 All my Insteon thermostats, both wired and wireless, show the displayed temperature when I select the thermostat in the Admin Console. Have you tried a factory reset-more than once? Did you try deleting and re-adding the 'stat? Just taking a couple of stabs at the problem.
Brian H Posted March 12, 2017 Posted March 12, 2017 Is the 2441ZTH running on an optional DC wall wart or battery? On battery it is in power saving mode and a Query will not work unless woken up. Though it should send temperature changes when detected. Not sure how much of a temperature change is needed for it to send an update.
Dr Pepper Posted March 12, 2017 Posted March 12, 2017 Is the 2441ZTH running on an optional DC wall wart or battery? On battery it is in power saving mode and a Query will not work unless woken up. Though it should send temperature changes when detected. Not sure how much of a temperature change is needed for it to send an update. Its on DC power not battery and a query does not bring the temp back only humidity and set points etc.
Dr Pepper Posted March 12, 2017 Posted March 12, 2017 All my Insteon thermostats, both wired and wireless, show the displayed temperature when I select the thermostat in the Admin Console. Have you tried a factory reset-more than once? Did you try deleting and re-adding the 'stat? Just taking a couple of stabs at the problem. I only did a reset once. I will try and delete, reset, re-add etc again in a little bit. I messaged the seller who I bought it from used and he had never heard of an ISY. He also would not say what controller he was using or if it reported the temp.
larryllix Posted March 12, 2017 Posted March 12, 2017 I only did a reset once. I will try and delete, reset, re-add etc again in a little bit. I messaged the seller who I bought it from used and he had never heard of an ISY. He also would not say what controller he was using or if it reported the temp. Use some hot breath or a few seconds with a hairdryer to initiate a temperature change update. There is no other way except to wait for a temperature change of a few degrees. Query won't do it.
Dr Pepper Posted March 12, 2017 Posted March 12, 2017 Use some hot breath or a few seconds with a hairdryer to initiate a temperature change update. There is no other way except to wait for a temperature change of a few degrees. Query won't do it. Its been running 24 hours and never reported the temp. I was ice cold almost 39F here when I plugged it in and It went up to 71 since then. Humidity and setpoint etc update on a query. But its not reporting the temp.
Teken Posted March 12, 2017 Posted March 12, 2017 Its been running 24 hours and never reported the temp. I was ice cold almost 39F here when I plugged it in and It went up to 71 since then. Humidity and setpoint etc update on a query. But its not reporting the temp. Are you saying the environment where this battery operated TSTAT is below 39'F / 4'C? If so, its well outside of the operating temperature of the hardware device which is 39 ~ 104'F / 4 ~ 40'C. There have been several threads where people expected to use the external probe to measure freezing temperatures?!? Again, the TSTAT (Every Normal) TSTAT will not measure negative values or those outside of the standard 39 ~ 104'F range.
Dr Pepper Posted March 12, 2017 Posted March 12, 2017 Are you saying the environment where this battery operated TSTAT is below 39'F / 4'C? If so, its well outside of the operating temperature of the hardware device which is 39 ~ 104'F / 4 ~ 40'C. There have been several threads where people expected to use the external probe to measure freezing temperatures?!? Again, the TSTAT (Every Normal) TSTAT will not measure negative values or those outside of the standard 39 ~ 104'F range. No it was 39F when I plugged it in because it was below freezing outside and sitting in the mail truck for hours. Again its not displaying the temp in ISY or Mobilinc but everything else works fine.
Dr Pepper Posted March 12, 2017 Posted March 12, 2017 Ok got it. I had to remove and add 6 (maybe it was 7) times and finally its working. It updates every 60 seconds to the ISY. I swapped the sensors to the probe reports and its also working fine. Thank you all. PS The only thing I cannot get is for the backlight to stay on all of the time since its plugged in. Not the biggest feature to not have but would be nice.
Techman Posted March 12, 2017 Posted March 12, 2017 Ok got it. I had to remove and add 6 (maybe it was 7) times and finally its working. It updates every 60 seconds to the ISY. I swapped the sensors to the probe reports and its also working fine. Thank you all. PS The only thing I cannot get is for the backlight to stay on all of the time since its plugged in. Not the biggest feature to not have but would be nice. There's no option for the backlight to stay on. Probably done to save the batteries in the event you're not hooked up to a power supply.
Dr Pepper Posted March 12, 2017 Posted March 12, 2017 There's no option for the backlight to stay on. Probably done to save the batteries in the event you're not hooked up to a power supply. When I get time I will try and figure out how to hack that. I want to see if I can build it into the side of the canopy so I can see the temp at a glance. On to hacking a EZ Flora to control LED lighting (red, green, blue, white etc).
larryllix Posted March 12, 2017 Posted March 12, 2017 Are you saying the environment where this battery operated TSTAT is below 39'F / 4'C? If so, its well outside of the operating temperature of the hardware device which is 39 ~ 104'F / 4 ~ 40'C. There have been several threads where people expected to use the external probe to measure freezing temperatures?!? Again, the TSTAT (Every Normal) TSTAT will not measure negative values or those outside of the standard 39 ~ 104'F range. That's 0 to 127 degrees Celsius in 0.5C increments. 0 to 254 counts on the binary transmission scale, the capability of one byte of data. I ran tests on one of my 2441ZTH units and it sent temperatures to ISY down to about -2.5C but the temperatures were not interpreted by ISY correctly, as they are sent as two's complement negative numbers, which ISY doesn't interpret. At that coldest temperature the stat electronics failed and resumed later, when the stat was warmed up.
Teken Posted March 12, 2017 Posted March 12, 2017 That's 0 to 127 degrees Celsius in 0.5C increments. 0 to 254 counts on the binary transmission scale, the capability of one byte of data. I ran tests on one of my 2441ZTH units and it sent temperatures to ISY down to about -2.5C but the temperatures were not interpreted by ISY correctly, as they are sent as two's complement negative numbers, which ISY doesn't interpret. At that coldest temperature the stat electronics failed and resumed later, when the stat was warmed up. Not sure where you get 0 ~ 127'C from 39'F which is 3.88889'C (Rounded to 4'C) 104'F is 40'C. These are specifications offered by Smartlabs regarding this thermostat: http://www.smarthome.com/insteon-2441zth-wireless-thermostat.html In my personal experience residential thermostats will indicate out of band readings either in the following methods: - The lowest value is shown whether it be 39'F as noted by the OP. - Some may indicate a an error or null value. - Some may indicate a binary fault value of say FF I have never seen a residential thermostat having the ability to offer negative (-) value representation preceding the numeric value, ever. Regardless, the OP has clarified the above statement and after repeated resets is in good shape.
Dr Pepper Posted March 12, 2017 Posted March 12, 2017 Not sure where you get 0 ~ 127'C from 39'F which is 3.88889'C (Rounded to 4'C) 104'F is 40'C. These are specifications offered by Smartlabs regarding this thermostat: http://www.smarthome.com/insteon-2441zth-wireless-thermostat.html In my personal experience residential thermostats will indicate out of band readings either in the following methods: - The lowest value is shown whether it be 39'F as noted by the OP. - Some may indicate a an error or null value. - Some may indicate a binary fault value of say FF I have never seen a residential thermostat having the ability to offer negative (-) value representation preceding the numeric value, ever. Regardless, the OP has clarified the above statement and after repeated resets is in good shape. Not repeated resets. Repeated adding and removing the device. Typical poor SH Quality.
Teken Posted March 12, 2017 Posted March 12, 2017 Not repeated resets. Repeated adding and removing the device. Typical poor SH Quality. For the benefit of the forum members can you indicate the hardware production and revision of this TSTAT along with what the ISY Series Controller indicates is the firmware for this device is? As this will help others down the road for comparisons . . . Regarding the quality of the product - I would expect to see a few revisions in the near future for this product. Lastly, every consumer should offer direct feedback and rate the product to help improve said product here: http://www.smarthome.com/insteon-2441zth-wireless-thermostat.html#reviews Offering factual feedback along with how to do better is the only way to push the company to do better.
larryllix Posted March 13, 2017 Posted March 13, 2017 (edited) Not sure where you get 0 ~ 127'C from 39'F which is 3.88889'C (Rounded to 4'C) 104'F is 40'C. These are specifications offered by Smartlabs regarding this thermostat: http://www.smarthome.com/insteon-2441zth-wireless-thermostat.html In my personal experience residential thermostats will indicate out of band readings either in the following methods: - The lowest value is shown whether it be 39'F as noted by the OP. - Some may indicate a an error or null value. - Some may indicate a binary fault value of say FF I have never seen a residential thermostat having the ability to offer negative (-) value representation preceding the numeric value, ever. Regardless, the OP has clarified the above statement and after repeated resets is in good shape. The temperature range given in the spec. is a conservative range for the electronics. The range I posted is from actual testing, as mentioned in my post. Look at the data stream in the Admin Console events and it soon will become apparent the data values, 0-255 counts, are 0 - 127.5 degrees C. Each binary increment is 0.5C. For 22.5C reading you will see a 55 value in the data stream. For 15.0C, the data stream will read 30. Humidity reads one for one percent. BTW:When external is selected on the stat, the value sent is one degree C for each count so the resolution is only 1.0c instead of 0.5c for the internal selection. The negative values are interpretations using standard signed 8 bits values. A value of 254 eauates to -1.0 degree C. This was never intended to happen and ISY does not interpret it as such as the value would also represent 128.0C, which would be the correct interpretation. Also, accuracies are probably out to lunch at these points, outside the stated range allowance. Edited March 13, 2017 by larryllix
Dr Pepper Posted March 13, 2017 Posted March 13, 2017 For the benefit of the forum members can you indicate the hardware production and revision of this TSTAT along with what the ISY Series Controller indicates is the firmware for this device is? As this will help others down the road for comparisons . . . Regarding the quality of the product - I would expect to see a few revisions in the near future for this product. Lastly, every consumer should offer direct feedback and rate the product to help improve said product here: http://www.smarthome.com/insteon-2441zth-wireless-thermostat.html#reviews Offering factual feedback along with how to do better is the only way to push the company to do better. You seriously think SH cares about quality?
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