Insteon motion detector II

[barrygordon]

I just picked up an Insteon model II motion detector, device product # 2844-222.  When I try and add this to mu UDI Controller it can not do it and comes up with the message "Can not determine Insteon Engine".  If I look in the device type list for a 2844-222 it is not there.  What do I need to do to be able to use this Insteon Device with my system?

[G W]

It doesn't work with the ISY. There are several discussions here about why.

 

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[Brian H]

It does not work. In any released or Beta firmware version of  4

Along with the Alert Module and Siren Module.

 

I have seen reports it definitely will be in a Firmware Version 5. It maybe in an Alpha version of 5 now.

[GlowingHair]

According to this post, there is limited support in a release candidate.

[stusviews]

I was able to add the new MS to 4.6.2. In fact, I was able to add the MS to 4.6.1.

[barrygordon]

Stu,  I am using 4.5.1.  I will try 4.6.2 tomorrow.  Since you can add it, does it work properly?

[stusviews]

Can't say for sure. I used a Hub to set the light sensitivity and On duration before I upgraded the ISY to a version that accepted the MS. Removing links doesn't change those settings. I did not factory reset the MS. Give me a couple of days--I'll play with another (new) MS and report the result.

[Brian H]

My earlier post was not totally correct. I still don't believe it is completely supported with 4 but may have some support.

 

I now remember seeing limited support being mentioned for 4.6.2. With a HUB used to set some of the options.

[barrygordon]

I upgraded to 4.6.2 and tried to add the 2844.222 motion sensor II.  Same problem, attempt to add fails with message  "Can not determine Insteon Engine".  I also noticed that the 2844-222 does not appear in the device type drop down list.

 

Any assistance greatly appreciated

 

As a minor aside I find that after I do a firmware upgrade the UDI is extremely slow until I do a forced reboot by dropping and restoring power to the UDI. Is this now normal?

[barrygordon]

Cockpit error!  I forgot that battery operated devices like this sensor need to be in setup mode so the ISY can discover them or update them.

 

It seems to be working now.

[ES1400]

This thread seems to be the latest on the 2844 motion detector issue. My question is how much of functionality were you able to use with 4.6.2 and the 2844?

I have many of the 2842 and apparently they are no longer available, so Its time to try the new 2844 motion detectors and based of the what I read on this forum it will a long time before I switch to 5.x.x.

I assume the basic motion detection must be working, but what about the

other functions?  Does it have a Heart Beat function or Low battery status?

 

Anyway, i would like to hear about what is actually working and your over all opinions of the device and 4.6.2

 

 

Thanks in advance

ES1400

[stusviews]

4.6.2

The Dusk.Dawn node appears, but the status is always blank. There's also a Low Battery mode, but I'm using USB power, so I haven't tried that mode.

 

Below are the options that appear to the ISY. Others have posted not being able to set any option. Again, I haven't had a need to as I used an Insteon Hub to set the options I wanted. I'll test on another 2842-222 and post back--today

[ES1400]

Thanks for the obersvation, sounds very barebones to me. Now that the 2842 has gone obsolete maybe the UDI and Insteon customer base can bring on the presser to get mess fixed.

 

Es1400

[Techman]

Take a look at this thread regarding UDI's support for the new motion sensor.

 

http://forum.universal-devices.com/topic/22196-whats-up-with-new-insteon-motion-sensor-ii/

[stusviews]

Using the ISY only, I was unable to change any settings except that I could enable and disable sending an On only.

[stusviews]

Some hours later, the Timeout kicked in. In particular, I--no, the ISY successfully changed the default  from 30 seconds to 2 minutes. (I previously used a Hub-on a different 2844.222.)

 

I'm testing the other options. Anyone else playing with the 2844-222 sensor and running 4.6.1 or 4.6.2?

[ES1400]

Despite all the issues I ordered one of the 2844 today and I'm running 4.6.2 on a ISY so to can understand the current limitations. I don't see ver 5.x.x for me anytime soon.

I'll share anything I find different from the postings here.

 

ES1400

[stusviews]

With a last update to 4.x.x on the horizon or under it, anything you find different or not different matters

[ES1400]

Having had some time to try the Insteon 2844-222 motion detector with UDI ISY at version 4.6.2, this what I found:

 

The only way to change the 2844-222 motion detector options is to use an Insteon hub, however, the insteon hub only writes setting to the motion detector so it is assume the values are written correctly and are not verifiable.

 

The ISY 4.6.2 identified the 2844-222 device as a 2842-222 and this is only by entering the insteon address could this device be installed, none of the ISY device search options could identify or install the 2844 device. Once 2844 is installed as a 2842 none of the ISY motion detector options are functional in setting or verifying. Setting the dusk dawn setting using the insteon hub may work in controlling the 2844 threshold for internal detection but setting is not verifiable or settable by the ISY at this time. Using the ISY to query the low voltage status will reset the status to OFF however I suspect the actual 2844 status was never read. The motion detected status is readable and works as expected.

 

The 2844-222 can be installed using ISY 4.6.2 by entering the insteon address and either using the default settings (factory reset) that came with the 2844 or by setting the options with the insteon hub. Then the 2844 will be identified as if it were a 2842 and is usable to report detected motion only.

 

While not having the 2844 options and statuses available to check is limiting, the fundamental objective of detecting motion using 2844 with ISY 4.6.2 is functional.  The new 2844 is a improvement over the older 2842 in size and appearance. Additionally the 2842 is no longer in available.

I hope UDI will back fill complete support for the new 2844 in to version 4 in the near future, waiting for a STABLE version 5 maybe unrealistic..

 

I hope this helps

 

ES1400

[barrygordon]

I agree completely with ES1400, especially his last comment:

 

"While not having the 2844 options and statuses available to check is limiting, the fundamental objective of detecting motion using 2844 with ISY 4.6.2 is functional.  The new 2844 is a improvement over the older 2842 in size and appearance. Additionally the 2842 is no longer in available.

I hope UDI will back fill complete support for the new 2844 in to version 4 in the near future, waiting for a STABLE version 5 maybe unrealistic..."

 

Since the 2842 is NO LONGER AVAILABLE it is extremely important to an active Insteon user using the ISY 994 that the 2844 be fully supported. 

[mwester]

This is a sad situation -- one where it seems there's simply no way for everyone to "win".

 

From where I sit/stand -- any engineering work spent on the 4.x.x branch by UDI merely delays the 5.x.x release date by that much (actually, usually by 1.5x the time spent, since most engineering organizations agree that significant productivity is lost with "context switching" engineers between new and old code branches).  I'd go further and state that since Smarthome/Smartlabs cannot provide specs for the new motion sensor, instead demanding/requiring UDI to REVERSE-ENGINEER (!) the product, the effort involved would be significant -- on either the 5.x or 4.x code branch.  Given that Insteon appears to be an HA technology in the twilight of its life, I'd prefer to see UDI invest that effort in testing and improving support for z-wave motion sensors.

 

A compromise, in my estimation, might be practical if we (the community) all contact Smarthome/Smartlabs and voice our anger that the API for the motion sensor is not released to UDI.  That's probably the single biggest obstacle, making any further engineering effort impractical.  Engineering is a discipline; exploration is merely hacking.  It's a shame that Smarthome/Smartlabs locked down their protocols, chipsets, and debugging devices so thoroughly, or perhaps one of us in the community could do the reverse engineering required.  Seems that Smarthome/Smartlabs has done everything in their power to ensure their own eventual demise. 

[Techman]

I agree completely with ES1400, especially his last comment:

 

"While not having the 2844 options and statuses available to check is limiting, the fundamental objective of detecting motion using 2844 with ISY 4.6.2 is functional.  The new 2844 is a improvement over the older 2842 in size and appearance. Additionally the 2842 is no longer in available.

I hope UDI will back fill complete support for the new 2844 in to version 4 in the near future, waiting for a STABLE version 5 maybe unrealistic..."

 

Since the 2842 is NO LONGER AVAILABLE it is extremely important to an active Insteon user using the ISY 994 that the 2844 be fully supported. 

 

The delay, and problem,  is not with UDI, it's Smartlabs. 

Smartlabs hasn't supplied UDI with the necessary documentation that UDI needs to incorporate the device into the ISY.

Smartlabs/Smarthome is in the middle of a transition to new ownership. We're all hopeful that once they get organized they'll be more responsive in working with developers and maybe even end users..

[stusviews]

The new MS is fully supported in the latest v.5+ Alpha release, so Smarlabs is no at fault at this time.. As has been stated, UDI added minimal support for the latest v.4, specifically 4.6.1 and 4.6.2. It's simply not cost effective to modify v.4 to fully support the MS.

 

UDI did put in the cost and time required for any support as a convenience with no financial return at all. Thanks for that

 

Like many others, I'd like to have full support, but I also understand the reasons to put all effort into the latest version.

[Techman]

The new MS is fully supported in the latest v.5+ Alpha release, so Smarlabs is no at fault at this time.. As has been stated, UDI added minimal support for the latest v.4, specifically 4.6.1 and 4.6.2. It's simply not cost effective to modify v.4 to fully support the MS.

 

UDI did put in the cost and time required for any support as a convenience with no financial return at all. Thanks for that

 

Like many others, I'd like to have full support, but I also understand the reasons to put all effort into the latest version.

 

Stu, no so according to Michel. Take a look at post #3  http://forum.universal-devices.com/topic/22196-whats-up-with-new-insteon-motion-sensor-ii/

[jblackst5000]

Hello,

I purchased a new Insteon Motion Sensor 11 about 4 months ago. It is my understanding that with the new v 4.6.2 update support has been added for this motion sensor. This is probably a stupid question but I am unable to link it to my ISY 994 using the Admin Control Panel. I pressed the set button on the motion sensor and then tried to add new Insteon Device. On all of my other Insteon Devices it came with an unique address. I can not find one on my Insteon Motion Sensor 11. The Model number is 2844-222. I also tried the "Start Linking" on the console and it did not find it. When I pressed the set button on the motion sensor it begins to blink so I think it is in linking mode.

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

 

Jim