Insteon Thermostat Secret Reset button.

[apostolakisl]

Screwey thing today.  At our church, with 9 Insteon thermostats, the power did some weird stuff.  3-phase power, one leg died, one leg became 25vac, and one leg stayed at 120vac like normal.  Then, an hour or so later the power came back on normal.  I assume it was the 25vac leg that screwed with the thermostats.  About half of them were dead . . . sort of.  I was able to communicate with them using ISY, but the screen was blank and nothing would respond to button presses, plus they were not turning the units on even though I could set them from ISY.  I tried power cycling them . . .no change.  I tried pushing and holding the set button to do a factory reset . . . nothing.  Then, I just happened to find a button on the PCB inside the units.  I pushed and held for 5 seconds.  Yeah!!! That fixed them.  I have no idea if you need to hold for 5 seconds, but that was what I did and it worked.

 

So, if your thermostat becomes unresponsive, try opening it up and pushing the button.  The button did not erase the settings, though the clock did reset.  I did not have any programs on the thermostats locally, I use ISY exclusively to control them, so I can't say for certain if those would have reset, but the custom settings I had for heat pump mode and keypad lockout were not reset.

[Teken]

Does this internal button have any writing that says reset? Just to be clear this is a completely different button not related to the set / link button?

 

 

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[apostolakisl]

Does this internal button have any writing that says reset? Just to be clear this is a completely different button not related to the set / link button?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No, it is inside the unit, have to pull it out from the wiring harness pins, so the unit is not powered at the time.

 

It might say something on the PCB in micro print.  I didn't have any magnifiers to look at the time.

 

I did read the troubleshooting part of the instructions and they do mention the button as the solution to the unit powering on and showing an error code on the screen.  The say it is a failed boot.  That is the only mention of it I could find.  These units had no error code, the screen was blank and the regular buttons did nothing.  I guess pushing the button causes the firmware to reboot from scratch.  But the unit has no power at all when you press it since it is swung open so the pins are not plugged in.  Perhaps there are some capacitors that keep enough power going when power is off and hitting this button empties them forcing a from scratch reboot at next power up.

[Teken]

I agree this button could be attached to a capacitor for voltage dump. Several industrial appliances I have use such a off line button to complete a hard reset / boot to factory conditions.

 

 

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[smokegrub]

I have one of these stats and occasionally it stops displaying and will not send notifications. The remedy, I have found, is to reboot the device by cutting power to it for a minute or so. It takes a bit but eventually it displays correctly and sends notifications. Others are pleased with these stats; I am not. 

[apostolakisl]

I have one of these stats and occasionally it stops displaying and will not send notifications. The remedy, I have found, is to reboot the device by cutting power to it for a minute or so. It takes a bit but eventually it displays correctly and sends notifications. Others are pleased with these stats; I am not. 

I don't blame the stat for this issue.  I suppose they could have put some code in there to account for an under voltage situation, but how often does the power company decide to deilver 25 volts.  The power company is actually claiming that it is our fault.  I asked how it could be our fault when it affected to buildings on separate services.  I got silence on that one.

 

The only complaint I have at this point is that the state of the thermostat (cooling,heating,idle) is not a true state but rather a "control" command which can't be queried and for whatever reason fails.  I have never had a failure setting anything on the thermostats remotely.  Temp/cool/heat/off/fan all work every time.  But when the thermostat reports cycling on/off it sometimes fails to deliver to ISY which is quite anoying since I am logging hours in use.

 

Regarding your issues.  I would try hitting that reset button.  When you power cycle the unit, I don't believe you actually reboot the firmware.  I'm sure if your power cycle were like 3 days long it would, but on a quick power cycle the units appear to keeping running in the background.

[larryllix]

Checking the wireless 2441ZTH thermostat...  it does not have this button.

[apostolakisl]

Checking the wireless 2441ZTH thermostat...  it does not have this button.

Other than looking the same, I don't suspect much electrically about it is the same as the actual thermostats.  No 24vac and no actual switching of anything.  I assume you don't do your 7 day programs and stuff there but rather on the actual thermostat.  It is really a thermostat remote control, not so much a thermostat.

[larryllix]

Other than looking the same, I don't suspect much electrically about it is the same as the actual thermostats.  No 24vac and no actual switching of anything.  I assume you don't do your 7 day programs and stuff there but rather on the actual thermostat.  It is really a thermostat remote control, not so much a thermostat.

Both only act as temperature/humidity probes. The newer firmware unit is not controllable by ISY.

There are so many better ways to sense those quantities now but not via Insteon. Temperatures with only 1.0F resolution are not much use for good home comfort control.

[stusviews]

My Insteon 2441ZTH thermostat have all the functions of the wired thermostat including scheduling and programming. They're also fully ISY compatible including the same functions and programability as the wired thermostat. A glance at one indicates that it's version 0D.

 

 

edit: corrected typo-2441ZTH, not 2442ZTH

[apostolakisl]

My Insteon 2442ZTH thermostat have all the functions of the wired thermostat including scheduling and programming. They're also fully ISY compatible including the same functions and programability as the wired thermostat. A glance at one indicates that it's version 0D.

 

I don't see that model on their website.

 

I don't understand how programs can live on both a wireless extender thermostat and also on the actual thermostat.  That would make for all kinds of possible conflicts.  

 

But that wasn't the point, the wireless thermostats are going to be quite different simply by virtue of the fact that they don't have wired connections to your hvac.

[G W]

There are more like thermometers than thermostats.

 

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[stusviews]

I don't see that model on their website.

 

I don't understand how programs can live on both a wireless extender thermostat and also on the actual thermostat.  That would make for all kinds of possible conflicts.  

 

But that wasn't the point, the wireless thermostats are going to be quite different simply by virtue of the fact that they don't have wired connections to your hvac.

 

Yes, you can program/schedule the thermostat independently of the ISY as not every thermostat owner has an ISY. BTW, the incorrect  model number was a typo, now corrected. Thanks for noticing that

[Crashley]

I know this post thread is old, but I just discovered the secret reset button myself.I have two Insteon thermostats connected to separate HVAC systems and they were both dead (no readout). I turned them to OFF a while ago but never noticed if they were still displaying the temp. Anyway, I went to turn them back on and they were both blank (no readout). I checked power and they were receiving 24VAC. I then fiddled with the switch on the PCB and closed the unit and viola, they were working again. I'm surprised that the manual doesn't mention these switches, or what makes the unit go blank.

[Crashley]

Actually, the manual does mention the internal reset button but only says to use it if you get an error code. My display was completely blank and the unit would not respond to any of the front panel buttons.

[apostolakisl]

8 minutes ago, Crashley said:

I know this post thread is old, but I just discovered the secret reset button myself.I have two Insteon thermostats connected to separate HVAC systems and they were both dead (no readout). I turned them to OFF a while ago but never noticed if they were still displaying the temp. Anyway, I went to turn them back on and they were both blank (no readout). I checked power and they were receiving 24VAC. I then fiddled with the switch on the PCB and closed the unit and viola, they were working again. I'm surprised that the manual doesn't mention these switches, or what makes the unit go blank.

I have had to use the secret button a number of times, always after power fluctuations.  Most notably, an oversized load driving down the main street near our church hooked on an overhead power line and literally tore multiple telephone poles out of the ground while crossing and shorting the high voltage lines and did a weeks worth of damage.  The power when that happened went crazy for a few seconds before finally going out altogether.  That knocked 8/9 thermostats at the church.  Then we had a brown out another time on one leg of our 3 phase power that took out like 3 of them.  The power company tells us we are crazy and that there was no brown out, but I actually measured the voltage at the panel and it was about 30 volts on one leg, then it returned to normal, for no obvious reason.  Fortunately, the secret button fixed it each time.

 

EDIT:  Yes, I also found it in the manual as you listed, but it was pretty obscure, and like you the thermostat just went blank like it had died.  I'm not sure what the button does, by I suspect it is a full power dump, discharging all capacitors and stuff to allow for a completely fresh boot.

[Crashley]

You know what, we had a brownout just a few weeks ago. I noticed things flashing in the house and the incandescent lights were very dim when turned on. I'm sure that must have caused the thermostats to reset. Thanks for the insight.

[LFMc]

2 hours ago, apostolakisl said:

Yes, I also found it in the manual as you listed, but it was pretty obscure, and like you the thermostat just went blank like it had died.  I'm not sure what the button does, by I suspect it is a full power dump, discharging all capacitors and stuff to allow for a completely fresh boot.

The most probable answer to the issue is that most all electronics with CPUs want to be powered down and powered up instantly to achieve the logic state they were designed for, such as from a hard off/on switch. When you have a power brown out or a gentle power up (i.e. gradually increasing voltage), it can put CPUs into what seems to be a locked up state where they will not continue or possibly throw off an error code. Combine this with the ultra low power draw most have achieved these days is why you have to disconnect them from power for 30 seconds (or longer) to achieve a true zero starting voltage which allows the cpu and memory to properly reset. Thus the hidden momentary switch may simply ground out the DC power (as you said) to the memory and CPUs to ensure a clean start and a fast power up or it signals the reset leg on the CPU and memory chips to do a hard reset.