Mis-behaving dimmers

[bcdavis75]

I'm stumped.  The problem seemed to begin after upgrading my ISY (yes i also upgraded the ui).  However, I cannot say conclusively that the upgrade is the cause.  Anyway, I have about 5 devices (mostly dimmers) that suddenly can't communicate with the ISY.  The malfunction is a different depending on the device but for purposes of getting the ball rolling, I'll start with the dimmer right next to my computer since it's easiest to troubleshoot.

 

The ISY says it cannot communicate with the device (error message attached). It worked fine until recently.  The odd thing is, if I turn the dimmer on and off physically, the ISY admin console properly reflects the change (and almost immiedietly). But If I attempt to change the state from the console, I get the communication error message and it does not change the state of the dimmer.

 

Event log is attached.  

 

 

 I have attempted air gapping the device.  No go.  I have rebooted the ISY and the PLM.  No go.

 

As always, any help if greatly appreciated.

[stusviews]

Which version did you update to? Do any of the devices show ! or 1011? Did you attempt File, Restore Devices?

[oberkc]

Before restoring your entire system "file>>restore devices", I would try restoring an individual troublesome device.  For your dimmer, right click, choose "restore device".  

 

How old is your PLM?

 

Is your PLM plugged into an outlet or circuit with lots of other gadgets and electronics?

 

What is the load on the dimmer?  Can you temporarily remove the load and see if that solves the problem?

[larryllix]

I would examine the links in the device and use the compare function to see if one link is destroyed. Then use the device restore to attempt to correct that. It's quite possible only one link was lost.

 

Every function takes it's own link between the device and the PLM.

[bcdavis75]

Which version did you update to? Do any of the devices show ! or 1011? Did you attempt File, Restore Devices?

Yes Stu the devices in question have mostly the !.   And I think one has the 1011.  I updated to the most recent stable version (4.62 I believe?).  I will double check this when I get home.

[bcdavis75]

I would examine the links in the device and use the compare function to see if one link is destroyed. Then use the device restore to attempt to correct that. It's quite possible only one link was lost.

 

Every function takes it's own link between the device and the PLM.

Hi Larry.  The ISY cannot read the links table for the devices in question so i can't even see if that's the issue.  This leads me to believe a device restore would not work--although I could certainly try it when i get home tonight.

[bcdavis75]

Before restoring your entire system "file>>restore devices", I would try restoring an individual troublesome device.  For your dimmer, right click, choose "restore device".  

 

How old is your PLM?

 

Is your PLM plugged into an outlet or circuit with lots of other gadgets and electronics?

 

What is the load on the dimmer?  Can you temporarily remove the load and see if that solves the problem?

PLM is 1 year old.  It is plugged directly into an outlet by itself... however, the outlet is in my AV room so yes, lots of electronics in there.  That said, the trouble started rather suddenly and nothing has change in that room.  I can definitely try physically moving the ISY and PLM elsewhere just to rule it out though.

[bcdavis75]

Before restoring your entire system "file>>restore devices", I would try restoring an individual troublesome device.  For your dimmer, right click, choose "restore device".  

 

How old is your PLM?

 

Is your PLM plugged into an outlet or circuit with lots of other gadgets and electronics?

 

What is the load on the dimmer?  Can you temporarily remove the load and see if that solves the problem?

Also yes, I could test removing the load.  I also have a spare dimmer I can wire in and test.  I can attempt both things this weekend.

[larryllix]

Hi Larry.  The ISY cannot read the links table for the devices in question so i can't even see if that's the issue.  This leads me to believe a device restore would not work--although I could certainly try it when i get home tonight.

hmmmmm... five devices...and you likely power cycled your PLM?

 

Beginning to sound a lot like Christmas PLM power supply capacitor(s) troubles.

[bcdavis75]

Just one other bit of context.  I have devices all over the house.  The communications problems appear to be effecting roughly 6-8 dimmers that are located on or near the back wall of my house and in the detached garage behind my house.  I bought a range extender and plugged it in the garage.  It had no effect on the issue.  

 

The dimmers in question--when physically switched--work but them the LED will flash red.

 

 

[bcdavis75]

hmmmmm... five devices...and you likely power cycled your PLM?

 

Beginning to sound a lot like Christmas PLM power supply capacitor(s) troubles.

Larry.  I initially thought that--especially since I've had to replace the PLM before.  However, this problem seems really localized (I just posted some more detail in a separate reply).  As if there's 5 or specific circuits causing a problem that are all pretty physically close to each other.  that made me think the issue is not with the PLM.

[larryllix]

Larry.  I initially thought that--especially since I've had to replace the PLM before.  However, this problem seems really localized (I just posted some more detail in a separate reply).  As if there's 5 or specific circuits causing a problem that are all pretty physically close to each other.  that made me think the issue is not with the PLM.

Good clues.

I would then try the unplugging sequence or maybe just shut off breakers, leaving only the PLM and one device circuit on. If things work, then start adding breakers back in... al la Stu style.

[stusviews]

Yes Stu the devices in question have mostly the !.   And I think one has the 1011.  I updated to the most recent stable version (4.62 I believe?).  I will double check this when I get home.

 

On those devices, select Restore Device followed by Write Updates to Device. Any success. BTW, when the LED on a dimmer or switch blinks red after pressing it, that's an indication that it can't communicate with one or more linked responders.

[bcdavis75]

On those devices, select Restore Device followed by Write Updates to Device. Any success. BTW, when the LED on a dimmer or switch blinks red after pressing it, that's an indication that it can't communicate with one or more linked responders.

Does the PLM count as a responder?

[stusviews]

Not wrt/the red blink. The cause is a device in the same scene as the one that blinks red (the blinking device is a controller). It could also be a device that was in that scene and has subsequently been removed. In the latter case, write updates should fix it.

[oberkc]

That said, the trouble started rather suddenly and nothing has change in that room.​

 

Things wear out over time.  Perhaps you changed nothing, but maybe the electronics are getting a bit tired and causing comm problems.  You could try using an extension cord and plugging the PLM into another circuit.  If that solves your problems, then a filter or two might be the permanent answer.  

 

Sounds like you are familiar with problematic PLMs, so I will say nothing further on that.

[Teken]

Sounds like you are familiar with problematic PLMs, so I will say nothing further on that.

 

LOL . . . 

[bcdavis75]

And the plot thickens.  

 

One additional bit of context I had left out before.  A few days ago, an electrician installed 3 lights (2 on the outside of the house and 1 on the outside of the garage).  Only weird thing this that two of the lights are supposed to be controlled by switches somewhere... and they're not.  My builder is sending them back to figure it out.  All the wiring and juntion boxes were pre-existing.  They just added lights we forgot to instll.  No idea if any of that is part of the problem.

 

So a straight resotr of the dimmers in question failed.  However, I moved the iSY and PLM to a different room and that seemed to improve the issue with several of the dimmers.  I am left with a couople problematic circuits.  Specifically, they are a couple of 3 way circuits that go from the house to the garage.  It's so you can turn the garge inside or outside lights on/off.  

 

I pulled the dimmers out on the house side of the circuits and found.... well see for yourself (attached). 

 

The electricians that build the house installed most of my dimmers.  The one on the left if an easy fix.  I'll remove and cap one of the travellers.  But the one on the right?!?!  What the hell is that thing?  I don't recall giving that to them but I must have.  For moment, I'm going to swap it with a spare new dimmer.  But I'm very curious what the device is.  The yellow wire says "sense"

[stusviews]

That's an In-LineLinc with sense (2475S2). No longer made, it enabled a line voltage source such as a standard wired-in motion sensor to turn the device on/off.

[bcdavis75]

OK. calling it a night.  I swapped the inlinlinc with a new relay which seems to be behaving.  The other indoor dimmer I had to do a factory reset and re-add.  But that also appears to be behaving.  Niether control a load so the bar is low.  Unfortunately, the 2 dimmers in the garage I have not been able to reconnect too.  After doing factory resets on those, the ISY does not see them when I hold the set button.

 

Uhg.

 

Thanks for all the advice everyone.  Hopefully I can figure out a solution without replacing both dimmers.  And more thoughts are welcome.

[Teken]

Besides obvious line noise in the system. It's important to confirm proper coupling / bridging of the split single phase electrical system via the 4 tap beacon test outlined by the full users manual.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[bcdavis75]

Besides obvious line noise in the system. It's important to confirm proper coupling / bridging of the split single phase electrical system via the 4 tap beacon test outlined by the full users manual.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks Teken.  I did take that step.  Phase coupler appears to be working fine.

 

So i've got the two dimmers inside the house to respond consistently to the ISY (by replacing the old one and re-wiring both).  However, the two dimmers in the garage are still not behaving.  Again these work perfectly up until recently.  The garage is 65 feet from the house.  

 

I was able to factory reset and re-add them to the system but soon after, I began getting communication errors again.  Would range extenders be of any help?

 

I also order two new dimmers to test.  I'm beginning to thing that the dimmers were damaged--perhaps by the recent electrical work.

[Teken]

If you have a plugin dual band device install it in the garage and perform the 4 tap beacon test. If the test passes going both directions leave that dual band device in place. Next try to control it via the Admin console.

 

If it operates you had a break in the coupling / bridging in that zone. If the test prove negative and you can't control the switch remove all of the loads (bulbs). Along with unplugging every single device in that circuit.

 

Once that is done confirm you can operate those switches via the admin console.

 

Glad the extension cord test proved the switch was fine. You can repurpose it elsewhere in the home.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[bcdavis75]

I do have a dual band lamp linc.  I'll try that tomorrow but how to you perform the beacon test?

[bcdavis75]

Curious to get peoples opinion on the attached.  I took down on of the outdoor light installed recently.  It looks like it's wired directly to the neutral.  Does that strike anyone as odd and/or problematic?  I disconnected it however, that has not solved my issues.