Mis-behaving dimmers

[Teken]

I do have a dual band lamp linc. I'll try that tomorrow but how to you perform the beacon test?

Ensure you unplug everything in the garage and remove all the bulbs in the zone.

 

Best to leave the garage door open so you can see what's happening!

[stusviews]

Curious to get peoples opinion on the attached.  I took down on of the outdoor light installed recently.  It looks like it's wired directly to the neutral.  Does that strike anyone as odd and/or problematic?  I disconnected it however, that has not solved my issues.  

 

Every electric device (except standard switches) requires being wired directly to the neutral.

[bcdavis75]

If you have a plugin dual band device install it in the garage and perform the 4 tap beacon test. If the test passes going both directions leave that dual band device in place. Next try to control it via the Admin console.

 

If it operates you had a break in the coupling / bridging in that zone. If the test prove negative and you can't control the switch remove all of the loads (bulbs). Along with unplugging every single device in that circuit.

 

Once that is done confirm you can operate those switches via the admin console.

 

Glad the extension cord test proved the switch was fine. You can repurpose it elsewhere in the home.

 

 

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Thanks teken.  So I used a pair of range extenders for the 4 tap test and based on their behavior, it seems the garage devices are on the very edge of the range.  The dimmers in the garage would blink gree... but then stop for a while.  Also, sometime 1 dimmer would be blinking green but the one right next to it would not.

 

I WAS able to mitigate the problem by moving the range extended from the house into a weather proof box under my deck.  This cut about 20 ft off the distance.  This seems to have improved communication although I'm still getting the occasional error.  

 

I'm going to remove the loads and everything plugged into the garage as you suggested and see what effect that has.

[Teken]

Awesome!! Please do circle back with the group a to what you find. You may find the problems are a combination of coupling, noise, and RF barriers like walls / metal JB's.

 

If the problem is found to be a plugged in device causing the issue a filter linc is all you need in most cases.

 

As an aside most issues are Insteon noise suckers opposed to noise makers.

 

 

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[bcdavis75]

MIGHT be onto something.  I have 3 garage door motors in that garage.  Plugging and unplugging one in particular seems to have a noticeable effect on communication.  That would be weird.  All 3 openers are less then a year old and weren't causing problems before....  but so far, it seems to be disruptive.

 

So a Filterlinc is in order? 

[Teken]

First thing I would check is the type of bulb in use. If it's anything other than a standard issue incandescent bulb. Yank it out and check again. If nothing improves or changes it's more likely the GDO and a filter linc is your solution.

 

 

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[bcdavis75]

Pulled the bulbs (Ecosmart LEDs).  No effect.  Once the opener is plugged back in, I start getting communication errors.  So it appears to be the opener!

 

Just the be sure, this is what I should get correct? http://www.smarthome.com/filterlinc-10-amp-plug-in-noise-filter.html

 

I'm going to unplug the GDO once more and wire the loads back onto the dimmers and make sure things seem stable.  Knock on wood though, may have found the culprit.

[bcdavis75]

Ugh.  Well... apparently another thing that causes problem is wiring the dimmers back into the load.  Every 5th or so attempt from the console is generating a communication errors  (note I have removed the Range extender so I'm trying to everything to work over wire).  I'm beginning to think there are some compound problems in that garage.  I think I will still try the filterLinc.

 

Is there a way to make the ISY increase the number of communication attempts for certain devices before throwing up up it's hands?

[Teken]

Pulled the bulbs (Ecosmart LEDs).  No effect.  Once the opener is plugged back in, I start getting communication errors.  So it appears to be the opener!

 

Just the be sure, this is what I should get correct? http://www.smarthome.com/filterlinc-10-amp-plug-in-noise-filter.html

 

I'm going to unplug the GDO once more and wire the loads back onto the dimmers and make sure things seem stable.  Knock on wood though, may have found the culprit.

 

That is the correct device: http://www.smarthome.com/filterlinc-10-amp-plug-in-noise-filter.html

 

INFORMATION ONLY: If you have a old school analog AM / FM radio that has a tuning dial one thing you can do is to select the AM band. At that point move the dial to a open channel where you can hear the back ground hiss. There are two tests you can perform and this is more for insight and diagnostics.

 

Apply power to the GDO so its at rest.

 

You should not hear anything on the AM radio . . .

 

Now, engage the GDO (Open) the garage door and listen to see if noise is (injected) picked up from GDO to the radio. You may be very surprised to see and learn the GDO is emitting RFI / EMI into the air and power line. Some of the newer GDO's with digital signaling randomly generate noise when it publishes the temperature to the smart key pad. 

 

The most common issue people see is a lack of RF remote control range and 99% of the time its due to the bulbs in use.  

[Teken]

Ugh.  Well... apparently another thing that causes problem is wiring the dimmers back into the load.  Every 5th or so attempt from the console is generating a communication errors  (note I have removed the Range extender so I'm trying to everything to work over wire).  I'm beginning to think there are some compound problems in that garage.  I think I will still try the filterLinc.

 

Is there a way to make the ISY increase the number of communication attempts for certain devices before throwing up up it's hands?

 

The Insteon topology has a hard 3 max send to ensure there isn't a broadcast storm. Having said this, some newer devices allow a person to define one parameter which pertains to signaling. If the hardware you have has this option you will see it ~ Off the top of my head I don't recall what its called.

[larryllix]

Ugh.  Well... apparently another thing that causes problem is wiring the dimmers back into the load.  Every 5th or so attempt from the console is generating a communication errors  (note I have removed the Range extender so I'm trying to everything to work over wire).  I'm beginning to think there are some compound problems in that garage.  I think I will still try the filterLinc.

 

Is there a way to make the ISY increase the number of communication attempts for certain devices before throwing up up it's hands?

Yes.

Right click on any device in the device tree. Select   Advanced | PLM Communications.

You can set the number of retires from 0 to 9  times.

[stusviews]

Yes.

Right click on any device in the device tree. Select   Advanced | PLM Communications.

You can set the number of retires from 0 to 9  times.

 

Not all devices allow that.

[bcdavis75]

And despair is setting in... Last night when attempting to update some scenes elsewhere in the house, other devices stated complaining.  I have a farly crucial Keypad linc in the master bedroom I cannot communicate with at all.  Other devices are becoming intermittent.

 

I'm getting a headache.

[larryllix]

Time to start the breaker elimination/addition routine.

 

See post #12

[bcdavis75]

...

 

Time to start the breaker elimination/addition routine.

 

See post #12

 

 

Was afraid of that.   

 

Quick question first.  The new misbehaving unit is a 2486D.  I can't locate this one on smarthome.  I'm guessing it's old.  Does anyone know if it's dual band?

[Brian H]

No it is not.

It is the older power line only Insteon  KeypadLinc Dimmer.

That still allowed an optional X10 primary address to also be added.

[bcdavis75]

Do failing units sometimes cause line noise in the system?

 

No it is not.

It is the older power line only Insteon  KeypadLinc Dimmer.

That still allowed an optional X10 primary address to also be added.

[paulbates]

It can happen, in my experience it can be a continual transmission of garbage that slows / blocks others.  I have one switchlinc that I leave set to "blink on transmitt/traffic" so I can see if something is doing that.

 

 

Typically it might be associated with some chirping or high pitched noise from the device. If you have a list of suspect devices that are switchlincs/keypads, start pulling their airgaps out one at a time and see if you can get control back

 

Paul

[bcdavis75]

It can happen, in my experience it can be a continual transmission of garbage that slows / blocks others.  I have one switchlinc that I leave set to "blink on transmitt/traffic" so I can see if something is doing that.

 

 

Typically it might be associated with some chirping or high pitched noise from the device. If you have a list of suspect devices that are switchlincs/keypads, start pulling their airgaps out one at a time and see if you can get control back

 

Paul

Paul.  You bring up question I've always wondered about... how do you turn off "blink on transmitt/traffic"?

 

 

I can't do the full breaker test today but when I can, I'll report back if I can nail down the culprit.Thanks everyone.

[Teken]

Depending upon model, year, production date. You can see random things like flashing buttons, hissing, buzzing, strobing load, constant Insteon traffic, etc.

 

 

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[paulbates]

Paul.  You bring up question I've always wondered about... how do you turn off "blink on transmitt/traffic"?

 

 

I can't do the full breaker test today but when I can, I'll report back if I can nail down the culprit.Thanks everyone.

 

In the admin console, it will be under options for the device in question. It blinks the LED under the keypad or on the side of the switchlinc.

 

Paul

[Teken]

Blink on traffic is done via the admin console in the options tab. This assumes the hardware had this feature.

 

Some hardware had beep on press, blink on traffic, blink on error, reduces hops, toggle RF / Powerline, lock programming, etc

 

 

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