First issue (didn't take long)....

[thbrewst]

I 'think' I am connected to the ISY and have the PLM all set-up correctly.  When I try to add a device nothing happens.  I have tried both using the 'set' button as well as inputing the address directly into the console.  I have tried to add both the PLM and LampLinc dimmer that I have.

 

What am I missing?

[Teken]

I 'think' I am connected to the ISY and have the PLM all set-up correctly.  When I try to add a device nothing happens.  I have tried both using the 'set' button as well as inputing the address directly into the console.  I have tried to add both the PLM and LampLinc dimmer that I have.

 

What am I missing?

 

1. You don't add the 2413S PLM into the controller.

2. Plug the lamplinc into the same outlet as the 2413S PLM and try again and report back success / failure.

[larryllix]

I 'think' I am connected to the ISY and have the PLM all set-up correctly.  When I try to add a device nothing happens.  I have tried both using the 'set' button as well as inputing the address directly into the console.  I have tried to add both the PLM and LampLinc dimmer that I have.

 

What am I missing?

PLM means PowerLine Modem. It's the interface that lets your ISY talk and listen to Insteon signals. Plug and play for ISY.

[thbrewst]

1. You don't add the 2413S PLM into the controller.

2. Plug the lamplinc into the same outlet as the 2413S PLM and try again and report back success / failure.

 

1) No worries, the Insteon Hub was aware of it so I was not sure, hence trying the lamplinc.

 

2) I did this and it did work, that one laplinc is connected.  Does that mean I am out of phase?

 

 

Thanks for the guidance.

[larryllix]

1) No worries, the Insteon Hub was aware of it so I was not sure, hence trying the lamplinc.

 

2) I did this and it did work, that one laplinc is connected.  Does that mean I am out of phase?

 

 

Thanks for the guidance.

It may mean you were connected to the other phase of your house service but it does mean the signal was just not getting there well enough for some reason.

 

That needs to be sleuthed down to determine how to rectify it.

[apostolakisl]

1) No worries, the Insteon Hub was aware of it so I was not sure, hence trying the lamplinc.

 

2) I did this and it did work, that one laplinc is connected.  Does that mean I am out of phase?

 

 

Thanks for the guidance.

 

I assume you have a dual band lamplinc and dual band plm since they haven't sold the single band versions of either of those in years.  Thus, phase shouldn't matter since they would talk via radio.

 

Radio works for a pretty descent distance.  It depends on what might be in the way (walls) but you should get at least 50 feet on the radio.

 

If you plug in more dual band devices, the signal will get repeated and passed along from device to device and also injected into the power lines and repeated along that way.  The dual band devices will take care of your phase issues since all it takes is one radio device plugged into each phase to pass between them.

[thbrewst]

A quick background...I had an Insteon Hub set-up at our previous house.  It died within month of us moving so I kept all of the switches, etc. and planned to move to ISY after the move.  So while I am not new to this process, I am new to ISY and still pretty new to our house.

 

I have the ISY in the finished basement storage room next to the router.  The ISY is plugged into a power strip, but the PLM is plugged directly into the wall socket.  When I first tried to link the Lamplinc it was plugged into a socket in the room directly outside the storage room, no more than 15 feet away from the PLM, just regular walls between the 2.  Per the previous statements the link did not work.  When I moved the Lamplinc to the same outlet as the PLM the link was successfully created.  So I went and go another Lamplinc and plugged it into the same socket as the first attempt (15 feet away).  Again it did not connect. Then I had to go to work so I stopped ;>

 

I did the factory reset procedure on both the Lamplincs when I connected them since they were used in my previous set-up.  That seemed to work OK.  

 

From a network perspective we typically connect to the house network via wifi, the ISY is hardwired to the wireless router, when I am trying to connect to the ISY I am also hard wired to the router as I assume that it will not bridge wifi to hard wire (I have not tried it yet).

 

Let me know if there are other bits of info that could be helpful or if there are other things I should try (once I get home).

I assume you have a dual band lamplinc and dual band plm since they haven't sold the single band versions of either of those in years.  Thus, phase shouldn't matter since they would talk via radio.

 

Radio works for a pretty descent distance.  It depends on what might be in the way (walls) but you should get at least 50 feet on the radio.

 

If you plug in more dual band devices, the signal will get repeated and passed along from device to device and also injected into the power lines and repeated along that way.  The dual band devices will take care of your phase issues since all it takes is one radio device plugged into each phase to pass between them.

 

Correct, the Lamplinc is dual band.

[Teken]

The first thing you need to do is hard reset every device to factory settings. Then add them to the controller while in that room ~ Trust me it will save the hair on your head.

 

Once every device has been added you can deploy them. Once in place confirm proper coupling / bridging via the 4 tap beacon test outlined in the full users manual.

 

For the easiest beacon test initiate it on the lamp linc as it does not have a 4 minute timer while in the beacon mode.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[thbrewst]

The first thing you need to do is hard reset every device to factory settings. Then add them to the controller while in that room ~ Trust me it will save the hair on your head.

 

Once every device has been added you can deploy them. Once in place confirm proper coupling / bridging via the 4 tap beacon test outlined in the full users manual.

 

For the easiest beacon test initiate it on the lamp linc as it does not have a 4 minute timer while in the beacon mode.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

OK.  I can do that for the lamplincs with no problem (I think I have 3), but it will be a huge pain to do that once I start the switches given they get wired into the wall.  Do you think my situation will improve after I get a few more devices connected and deployed?  Anecdotally I never had range issues with the Hub so I would have expected this to be the same (or better), but this is a new house so the wiring/interference could be different.  The interior wall construction is the same.

 

I will read up on the beacon test in the manual.  Thanks, and thanks again for the guidance.  

[Teken]

Take a old lamp cord and cut the end off. If you don't have any go to the dollar store and get one. It will be the best investment you ever made besides your house.

 

Ensure it's a 3 prong cable for more flexibility and use. You don't need the ground at all but for safety sake it should always be connected even when temporarily being hooked up. Being able to Wire and program at the bench saves tons of time during the deployments stage.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Teken]

For most folks the install is a one time affair. But I always suggest people go into this thinking maintenance will need to be performed.

 

Buy some Wago Nuts as they allow quick insertion and removal and saves your fingers from spinning the standard Marrettes.

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[larryllix]

OK. I can do that for the lamplincs with no problem (I think I have 3), but it will be a huge pain to do that once I start the switches given they get wired into the wall. Do you think my situation will improve after I get a few more devices connected and deployed? Anecdotally I never had range issues with the Hub so I would have expected this to be the same (or better), but this is a new house so the wiring/interference could be different. The interior wall construction is the same.

 

I will read up on the beacon test in the manual. Thanks, and thanks again for the guidance.

Switchlincs can be factory reset completely via the button at the bottom.

 

No need to even remove the cover.

 

Sent from my SGH-I257M using Tapatalk

[apostolakisl]

For most folks the install is a one time affair. But I always suggest people go into this thinking maintenance will need to be performed.

 

Buy some Wago Nuts as they allow quick insertion and removal and saves your fingers from spinning the standard Marrettes.

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

I have this same sort of thing.  But I use a wire with an on/off switch on the wire.  It makes it just a touch easier since you can easily turn the power off (don't have to pull the plug) for connecting/disconnecting.  Also, it is easier to do the factory reset.  You do not have to pull the hard disconnect, just switch the power off, push in the set button, then flip the power on while still holding the button in.  You can fly through a whole bunch of devices this way.  Then add them to ISY with the PLM right next to it.  It will go a bit faster since the com will be very strong.

 

Also, you appear to have a bad noise maker on your house wires.  The only reason that a device 15 feet away wouldn't work is that.  Wait. . . .reason two is that PLM radio is broken.  I have a dual band PLM that is actually not dual band . . . radio is dead.  

 

If you have a filterlinc, you can put the PLM and lamplinc right next to each other, but "hide" the lamplinc behind a filterlinc.  If the thing still won't link, then you have a bad radio. 

[Teken]

I have this same sort of thing. But I use a wire with an on/off switch on the wire. It makes it just a touch easier since you can easily turn the power off (don't have to pull the plug) for connecting/disconnecting. Also, it is easier to do the factory reset. You do not have to pull the hard disconnect, just switch the power off, push in the set button, then flip the power on while still holding the button in. You can fly through a whole bunch of devices this way. Then add them to ISY with the PLM right next to it. It will go a bit faster since the com will be very strong.

 

Also, you appear to have a bad noise maker on your house wires. The only reason that a device 15 feet away wouldn't work is that. Wait. . . .reason two is that PLM radio is broken. I have a dual band PLM that is actually not dual band . . . radio is dead.

 

If you have a filterlinc, you can put the PLM and lamplinc right next to each other, but "hide" the lamplinc behind a filterlinc. If the thing still won't link, then you have a bad radio.

 

That is a genius idea using a leading switch to kill power!! Moving forward I will make a new cable set incorporating such a fantastic idea.

 

It's safe to say over the years your feedback has proven invaluable to me.

 

Thank You!

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[apostolakisl]

That is a genius idea using a leading switch to kill power!! Moving forward I will make a new cable set incorporating such a fantastic idea.

 

It's safe to say over the years your feedback has proven invaluable to me.

 

Thank You!

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Turns out I just happened to have that wire in my scrap wire box.  It drives my wife crazy, but I never throw away things like that.  If something dies, I look it over for any switches or wires or other random parts on it that might be useful in the future.  Then, when something needs fixin' or makin', and I can make or fix it without a trip to the HD, I point out to my wife how I just fixed xyz or built xyz and saved the 45 minute trip to HD!  She rolls her eyes.

[Teken]

Turns out I just happened to have that wire in my scrap wire box. It drives my wife crazy, but I never throw away things like that. If something dies, I look it over for any switches or wires or other random parts on it that might be useful in the future. Then, when something needs fixin' or makin', and I can make or fix it without a trip to the HD, I point out to my wife how I just fixed xyz or built xyz and saved the 45 minute trip to HD! She rolls her eyes.

I have been very fortunate my GF hasn't called me out on doing the same. I fear the whole pack rat syndrome is fast approaching in my home though. ☹️

 

More than eight years ago I told her to never throw away any cables. Had a box full of telephone cable sitting in the basement. With the advent of wireless phones there wasn't a need for 25,50,100 foot telephone cords!!

[thbrewst]

I have this same sort of thing.  But I use a wire with an on/off switch on the wire.  It makes it just a touch easier since you can easily turn the power off (don't have to pull the plug) for connecting/disconnecting.  Also, it is easier to do the factory reset.  You do not have to pull the hard disconnect, just switch the power off, push in the set button, then flip the power on while still holding the button in.  You can fly through a whole bunch of devices this way.  Then add them to ISY with the PLM right next to it.  It will go a bit faster since the com will be very strong.

 

Also, you appear to have a bad noise maker on your house wires.  The only reason that a device 15 feet away wouldn't work is that.  Wait. . . .reason two is that PLM radio is broken.  I have a dual band PLM that is actually not dual band . . . radio is dead.  

 

If you have a filterlinc, you can put the PLM and lamplinc right next to each other, but "hide" the lamplinc behind a filterlinc.  If the thing still won't link, then you have a bad radio. 

 

And if I don't have a filterlinc?   Is there another way to know if the PLM is bad?  It is brand new (came with the ISY).

[Teken]

And if I don't have a filterlinc?   Is there another way to know if the PLM is bad?  It is brand new (came with the ISY).

 

If the 2413S PLM is fairly new (Under 2 Years) there shouldn't be any concern. If you are curious there are at least three things you can check. Visually the green LED should be lit and flash when communications is present. Next, you can login to the Admin Console go to: Tools->Diagnostics->PLM Info Status. If its connected it will say so if it isn't there may be a problem with the cable or PLM.

 

Next, you can go to Tools->Diagnostics>Show PLM Link Table.

 

Run this after your entire network is included / added to the controller. If you go to the UDI WiKi there is a link calculator which *Generally* tells you how many links certain devices will require. You will need to run this link count while the home is asleep and quiet with no one moving around. If you say had 50 devices and the link count comes back like something stupid say 10 theres a problem.

 

I wouldn't jump ahead into that areas just yet . . .

[stusviews]

Use both ends of the cable you cut in half. Plug a lamp into the receptacle end to verify that the Insteon device is working.

 

BTW, the electric supply in homes is split, single-phase. The distribution transformer secondary has three wires, line A. line B and neutral. The voltage between the two line wires is 220/240VAC and 110/120VAC between each line wire and the neutral. The current flowing in each line wire is 180º out of phase with the other line wire, hence the term, phase-coupler.

[apostolakisl]

To check the PLM radio, 4 ways if you don't have a filter linc. OK, I'm sure there are more, but here I list 4. 

 

Also, just to be clear, I'm not referring to a bad PLM power supply (which is what the posts above refer to), I'm talking about a PLM that works except for the radio.  I have one that has a dead radio which I only discovered when I moved it to a new building where the only Insteon devices were thermostats (which are radio only).

 

1) If you have a UPS, this is the easiest thing to do. Plug the PLM into an uninterupted power supply (UPS). Then pull the plug on the UPS so that it is running on battery (and thus the PLM is totally separate from the house wires). Now check to see if the PLM can communicate with any dual band or rf-only device.

 

2) use RF only devices. Insteon makes a number of those. thermostats, water detectors, and some other things. With only the PLM and the rf-only device powered on (in other words, unplug all your lamp lincs and pull the disconnect on any installed switchlincs, etc), see if the PLM will communicate.

 

3) Plug an extension cord into your neighbors house and plug the PLM/ISY into it, bringing the PLM/ISY close to your house. Then see if it will communicate with anything.

 

4) Find two outlets in your house that are on separate phase (yes I know Stu), Turn the circuit breakers off to all 240v devices. Plug PLM/ISY into an outlet on one phase, plug a dual band device into plug on other phase, remove all other insteon devices. See if they talk.  FYI, generally speaking, circuit breakers have every other breaker on the same phase.  That is why 240v breakers tap two adjacent spots, so they can bridge the two 120's and get 240.

[Teken]

To check the PLM radio, 4 ways if you don't have a filter linc. OK, I'm sure there are more, but here I list 4. 

 

1) If you have a UPS, this is the easiest thing to do. Plug the PLM into an uninterupted power supply (UPS). Then pull the plug on the UPS so that it is running on battery (and thus the PLM is totally separate from the house wires). Now check to see if the PLM can communicate with any dual band or rf-only device.

 

2) use RF only devices. Insteon makes a number of those. thermostats, water detectors, and some other things. With only the PLM and the rf-only device powered on (in other words, unplug all your lamp lincs and pull the disconnect on any installed switchlincs, etc), see if the PLM will communicate.

 

3) Plug an extension cord into your neighbors house and plug the PLM/ISY into it, bringing the PLM/ISY close to your house. Then see if it will communicate with anything.

 

4) Find two outlets in your house that are on separate phase (yes I know Stu), Turn the circuit breakers off to all 240v devices. Plug PLM/ISY into an outlet on one phase, plug a dual band device into plug on other phase, remove all other insteon devices. See if they talk.

 

LOL  . . . 

[apostolakisl]

Use both ends of the cable you cut in half. Plug a lamp into the receptacle end to verify that the Insteon device is working.

 

BTW, the electric supply in homes is split, single-phase. The distribution transformer secondary has three wires, line A. line B and neutral. The voltage between the two line wires is 220/240VAC and 110/120VAC between each line wire and the neutral. The current flowing in each line wire is 180º out of phase with the other line wire, hence the term, phase-coupler.

 

This is true, but it really is just a technicality.  Whether it is two phases of 120v 180 degree phase difference right out of the generator, or if it is a single phase that is split, the electricity looks the same at the point of use.

[larryllix]

This is true, but it really is just a technicality.  Whether it is two phases of 120v 180 degree phase difference right out of the generator, or if it is a single phase that is split, the electricity looks the same at the point of use.

Except where it is 120 degrees out of phase, as many homes have in certain areas. Then the voltage is typically designed to be 125//216Vac.

Electricity  is like a woman. Legs can have different phases , but I'll leave you thinking about what the rest of the expression might have been.

[apostolakisl]

Except where it is 120 degrees out of phase, as many homes have in certain areas. Then the voltage is typically designed to be 125//216Vac.

Electricity  is like a woman. Legs can have different phases , but I'll leave you thinking about what the rest of the expression might have been.

Curious.  I haven't heard of that.  Is that pulling from two phases on the utility pole?  Not sure why that even exists, seems like it would cost a lot more and add no benefit.

 

So here is one,  single phase to 3 phase transformers are becomming fairly common now.  I've got 4 of them in my house.  Is that 3 phase or 3 legged single phase?  

[stusviews]

Currently, in North America, electricity is either single-phase or 3-phase, except Philadelphia which still has 2-phase electricity. A single-phase to 3-phase converter output is truly 3-phase as the legs are, indeed, 120º apart with respect to each other.

 

One advantage of a 3-phase electric supply is the ease of which a motor can be reversed. Simply reverse any two legs. It's also less costly the make a 3-phase heavy duty motor and to distribute 3-phase power. And there are technical advantages that are too wordy to discuss here.