Phantom Devices and Battery Status

[heardc]

I am running 4.6.2 on an ISY994ZW and Zwave version 4.55.  I have 37 devices on the network, Yale deadbolts, Evolve and GE switches, Ecolink Motion Sensor and Door Sensors, 7 network module controlled cameras, a powerview shade from Hunter Douglas etc.  It runs really well with the exception of two things:

 

1) Phantom devices showing up all the time.  I am constantly logging in to the UI and deleting devices that show up in the list that should not be there.  Glass Break Detectors, Tamper Alarms, Power Meters, Motion Sensors, all associated with mostly the Aeotec smart switches and motion sensors.  They're all garbage.  I delete them and they show up again in a few days, not always associated with the same ZW addresses.

 

Can I stop this by selecting "Do not allow secure devices to be included..."?

 

2) Lack of Battery Status.  This constantly burns me because a dead sensor fails to report status, and my programs take action as a result of status being either "On" or "Off".  When the status is "--", nothing, it results in behavior I do not want.  Plus, I just want to know when the batteries are getting close to death anyway.  The solution is to wake up the sensor, then query the device and the batt status gets updated.  So the capability is there, just can't do it automatically. 

 

Is there a way to have the ISY always Query a device during every interaction or status change?

[asbril]

I believe that the phantom devices issue is well known and it has, somewhat, been addressed in 5.0.10. In Zwave, go to Options and then choose to freeze ISY nodes, and choose Yes.

The problem is, I think, that every time you restart the Administrative Console, this defaults to No.

 

Not being sure that I can delete these phantom devices, I put them in a separate folder, but I would love to delete them all together.

[Techman]

I am running 4.6.2 on an ISY994ZW and Zwave version 4.55.  I have 37 devices on the network, Yale deadbolts, Evolve and GE switches, Ecolink Motion Sensor and Door Sensors, 7 network module controlled cameras, a powerview shade from Hunter Douglas etc.  It runs really well with the exception of two things:

 

1) Phantom devices showing up all the time.  I am constantly logging in to the UI and deleting devices that show up in the list that should not be there.  Glass Break Detectors, Tamper Alarms, Power Meters, Motion Sensors, all associated with mostly the Aeotec smart switches and motion sensors.  They're all garbage.  I delete them and they show up again in a few days, not always associated with the same ZW addresses.

 

Can I stop this by selecting "Do not allow secure devices to be included..."?

 

2) Lack of Battery Status.  This constantly burns me because a dead sensor fails to report status, and my programs take action as a result of status being either "On" or "Off".  When the status is "--", nothing, it results in behavior I do not want.  Plus, I just want to know when the batteries are getting close to death anyway.  The solution is to wake up the sensor, then query the device and the batt status gets updated.  So the capability is there, just can't do it automatically. 

 

Is there a way to have the ISY always Query a device during every interaction or status change?

 

Create a new folder and then move the phantom devices into that folder.

 

There's no way to query a battery operated device. Which devices aren't reporting low battery?

[Teken]

I am running 4.6.2 on an ISY994ZW and Zwave version 4.55.  I have 37 devices on the network, Yale deadbolts, Evolve and GE switches, Ecolink Motion Sensor and Door Sensors, 7 network module controlled cameras, a powerview shade from Hunter Douglas etc.  It runs really well with the exception of two things:

 

1) Phantom devices showing up all the time.  I am constantly logging in to the UI and deleting devices that show up in the list that should not be there.  Glass Break Detectors, Tamper Alarms, Power Meters, Motion Sensors, all associated with mostly the Aeotec smart switches and motion sensors.  They're all garbage.  I delete them and they show up again in a few days, not always associated with the same ZW addresses.

 

Can I stop this by selecting "Do not allow secure devices to be included..."?

 

2) Lack of Battery Status.  This constantly burns me because a dead sensor fails to report status, and my programs take action as a result of status being either "On" or "Off".  When the status is "--", nothing, it results in behavior I do not want.  Plus, I just want to know when the batteries are getting close to death anyway.  The solution is to wake up the sensor, then query the device and the batt status gets updated.  So the capability is there, just can't do it automatically. 

 

Is there a way to have the ISY always Query a device during every interaction or status change?

 

This odd behavior has been seen on several different home automation controllers such as HS, Vera, and ISY Series Controller. Vendors are saying the devices are reporting in these phantom nodes and thus when they see it they are then listed. Honestly, if that is how the API is for Z-Wave that is such a fail in every way imaginable.

 

I have no clue how people can explain away X products has two nodes say open & close. Works for years than one day it reports back having hands, feet, eye balls, and a nose. No way it has glass break, tamper, motion, blah blah ~ yet they appear!

 

Bad API, Bad Topology, Bad Concept . . .

[KSchex]

I would like to know what the official technical UDI explanation is. Especially since I am slowly converting my high failure rate Insteon devices to Z Wave.

[asbril]

I would like to know what the official technical UDI explanation is. Especially since I am slowly converting my high failure rate Insteon devices to Z Wave.

The appearances of phantom devices on the Administrative Console is annoying but it has no effect on performance. I fully trust that  this will be resolved in one of the following updates. In the meantime, when they appear, just move them to a separate folder.  I actually am renaming my folder to 'phantom'......

[stusviews]

I followed Asbrid's advice and placed all the extraneous Z-Wave modes in a separate folder named ZW Xtra. In the event one or more modes becomes useful, I can easily find it and the name places it out of the way.

[Techman]

Regarding phantom devices, take a look at this thread  https://forum.universal-devices.com/topic/22492-aeotec-range-extender-6-extra-node-for-multilevel-switch/

[Teken]

Regarding phantom devices, take a look at this thread  https://forum.universal-devices.com/topic/22492-aeotec-range-extender-6-extra-node-for-multilevel-switch/

 

His reply doesn't even come close to addressing why something operates just fine for years and for example shows 2 nodes since day one of its deployment. Keeping in mind it operates just fine and only shows two nodes which directly reflect the operations of said device.

 

Then, like fairy dust five more nodes which have absolutely nothing to do with that piece of specific hardware shows up having sensors which it doesn't have, support, or will ever have.

 

This is a failed Z-Wave concept, API, and Topology.

 

If the solution is to simply suppress the nodes from ever appearing that is a work around but that is a band aid just like placing them into a folder. That's right up there with selling a person a brand new tire and they have a slow leak. The reply from the vendor to the customer is to simply keep adding air to the tire?!?! When the problem is the tire wasn't sealed properly, has a puncture, or has some kind of defect which prevents the tire from operating as expected.

 

ie. Bent rim

 

I hope to see the Z-Wave alliance iterate and fix this issue because it impacts every other smart controller on the market as I stated up above. This poor implementation of the Z-Wave protocol increases support calls and lowers customer satisfaction for all. 

[stusviews]

It's fine with me if in the future the nodes will fulfill a feature.

[larryllix]

Funny aside.

Years back with X10 I would find a light coming on in the middle of the night. I used a few house codes for my stuff.  When it persisted, annoying me  in a regular pattern of time and I could not determine a neighbour with the tech's to be involved in HA, I wrote loops to operate that particular House code on and off ever few seconds for a few days. It always disappeared off that house code after that  and never bothered me again.