Newfiestang50 Posted November 17, 2017 Author Share Posted November 17, 2017 You can, but eventually the PLM will stop working all together. Things will be un-predictable until its replaced Paul Ya not worth the effort, got to re-link all the battery operated devices....guess I'm done until my new PLM shows up in a week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulbates Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 Ya not worth the effort, got to re-link all the battery operated devices....guess I'm done until my new PLM shows up in a week. Yes, this is the kind of event that sends people packing to zwave. My "insurance policy" is to get a second PLM and have it waiting. Not sure if your supplier periodically lowers pricing, amazon will take it down to ~$30 once a year or so. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newfiestang50 Posted November 17, 2017 Author Share Posted November 17, 2017 Yes, this is the kind of event that sends people packing to zwave. My "insurance policy" is to get a second PLM and have it waiting. Not sure if your supplier periodically lowers pricing, amazon will take it down to ~$30 once a year or so. Paul I've never seen aartech lower any prices for this stuff.....and Amazon.com wont ship it to Canada....so $136 later its in the mail. Cant say I'm really unpressed with the fact I have to buy one of these every 2 or 3 years, may have went with something else had I know that....oh well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teken Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 I've never seen aartech lower any prices for this stuff.....and Amazon.com wont ship it to Canada....so $136 later its in the mail. Cant say I'm really unpressed with the fact I have to buy one of these every 2 or 3 years, may have went with something else had I know that....oh well. Just to clarify that point Amazon.com does in fact ship to Canada. But this depends highly upon what the product is or who is the selling vendor. One major pain point with Amazon.com is there are times *Literally* they will have the exact same Insteon hardware for sale. It will indeed ship to Canada today then next day, week, month, this exact same product won't be eligible to be shipped to Canada! It makes not f^cken sense in the least to me . . . Also, keep in mind simply going to Amazon.com does not mean the product is carried and shipped by Amazon. Lastly, Amazon also provides a central drop ship service which enables small to large companies to use their massive distribution center as the main shipper for their wares. Also, AARTECH is currently the only Canadian vendor who consistently carries all of the Insteon hardware even if its jacked up in price. They always have these crazy stupid promo's that make no sense and comes off as a scam. I think the famous ones are *Hey spend $500.00 with us and we will give you $2.00 discount* You got to be mental to think that is a bargain or remotely even a deal!! If someone was already committed to buying XXX dollars that measly $2.00 promo discount would be just a afterthought and bonus. But it certainly doesn't compell me in the least to do business with them. Regardless in the end a person needs to have a few things set up when buying via American websites. That is having an American CC, American bank account, and then paying those purchases in USD. Otherwise the exchange and duties makes the savings very low. It doesn't negate the fact if you're a keen shopper you can make out like a freaking bandit! I know because Amazon.com has rained a few golden eggs for me over the last two years! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newfiestang50 Posted November 18, 2017 Author Share Posted November 18, 2017 Just to clarify that point Amazon.com does in fact ship to Canada. But this depends highly upon what the product is or who is the selling vendor. One major pain point with Amazon.com is there are times *Literally* they will have the exact same Insteon hardware for sale. It will indeed ship to Canada today then next day, week, month, this exact same product won't be eligible to be shipped to Canada! It makes not f^cken sense in the least to me . . . Also, keep in mind simply going to Amazon.com does not mean the product is carried and shipped by Amazon. Lastly, Amazon also provides a central drop ship service which enables small to large companies to use their massive distribution center as the main shipper for their wares. Also, AARTECH is currently the only Canadian vendor who consistently carries all of the Insteon hardware even if its jacked up in price. They always have these crazy stupid promo's that make no sense and comes off as a scam. I think the famous ones are *Hey spend $500.00 with us and we will give you $2.00 discount* You got to be mental to think that is a bargain or remotely even a deal!! If someone was already committed to buying XXX dollars that measly $2.00 promo discount would be just a afterthought and bonus. But it certainly doesn't compell me in the least to do business with them. Regardless in the end a person needs to have a few things set up when buying via American websites. That is having an American CC, American bank account, and then paying those purchases in USD. Otherwise the exchange and duties makes the savings very low. It doesn't negate the fact if you're a keen shopper you can make out like a freaking bandit! I know because Amazon.com has rained a few golden eggs for me over the last two years! Yes agree 100%...I should have clarified a little. I purchase many things from amazon.com when i cant find it on the canadian site. As for the american bank account and CC, I still would have to transfer $CDN over to $US at some point and the bank still gets you on this. I just purchased an expensive 5th wheel RV in the US for the 3rd time and its still amazes me what the banks charge to change over currency. Still its alot cheaper to purchase an item such as an RV south of the boarder, even with our crappy CDN $$, like over $20K cheaper on a $CDN85000 unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teken Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 Yes agree 100%...I should have clarified a little. I purchase many things from amazon.com when i cant find it on the canadian site. As for the american bank account and CC, I still would have to transfer $CDN over to $US at some point and the bank still gets you on this. I just purchased an expensive 5th wheel RV in the US for the 3rd time and its still amazes me what the banks charge to change over currency. Still its alot cheaper to purchase an item such as an RV south of the boarder, even with our crappy CDN $$, like over $20K cheaper on a $CDN85000 unit. I should have offered a little more clarification on the above. You would need to set up an American (USD) account and have a American USD Credit Card issued by the Canadian merchant bank. Ideally, you would have purchased your American dollars at or above par like I did many moons ago. With existing USD on tap you simply pay off the American CC via the American bank account. No exchange or hassle . . . The best part of having an American high interest savings account is the monthly interest is paid out in USD. If we assume the worst case scenario of only $1.00 USD per month that's $12.00 per year. On paper it doesn't sound like a lot and in the big picture it really isn't. But if you buy lot of those $0.01 ~ $0.99 cent auctions on eBay you can really make out like a bandit. Obviously this assumes the type of hardware you're looking for are being listed for those penny auctions. Don't ever discount used, NOS, and refurbished products because there is always one diamond in the rough! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bretta Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 My programs have been getting erratic over the last couple of weeks. Today, no ISY connection to anything at all. Found this thread. Replaced PLM with a second one I have for an I/O board that is not yet in service. Fixed. My PLM date code is 8th week 2014, so I got 4 years, 17 weeks, minus it's shelf time. It works hard, with 300 links, but even so, it's a true reflection of Smart Labs lack of quality and concern. One of many cheap and poorly designed products in the Insteon range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian H Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 Glad you found the problem. The failed 2413 PLM {Rev 2 2443 Access Points also} club seems to keep getting larger. If you didn't see it. There is an 18 page thread here on the failures and repairs we have done. https://forum.universal-devices.com/topic/13866-repair-of-2413s-plm-when-the-power-supply-fails/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAnderson01 Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 The title for this thread is close to my issue so posting here. Over the last three days, insteon control was becoming increasingly flaky. I monitored with event viewer for long periods of time. What I was observing was when issuing a device command to come on or off, the transmit signal was logged but the return status was dicey. This was becoming worse with time. Having had to replace several previous PLM's, I quickly ordered a replacement that arrived this day. Just in time as return status from all devices ceased as of last night. Unfortunately, after install of the new PLM, no joy. The table is correct in the new PLM. Reading random ISY device links shows the correct PLM address. It keeps trying to write to the devices to update for new PLM but no response from any devices so everything ends up with exclamations. Also tried a different known-good ethernet cable from PLM to ISY. It appears that the ISY can no longer "hear" (receive). Other functions such as communication with Elk and Zigbee communication with Power Meter working OK and show good on Mobilinc. Now to the question: Anyone experience this failure mode and is my ISY down for the count? Please understand the basics have been covered and am long time owner/user of the ISY. First post because have always been able to troubleshoot and resolve previous issues. Firmware is 4.7.5. Generally keep firmware updated. Dane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kclenden Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 3 hours ago, DAnderson01 said: It appears that the ISY can no longer "hear" (receive). The ISY only hears from the PLM. The PLM hears from all the Insteon devices and then passes it on to the ISY. Since you can display the PLM Links table, that implies the ISY is hearing from the PLM just fine. Your problem would seem to be with the PLM hearing from all the Insteon devices. 3 hours ago, DAnderson01 said: Over the last three days, insteon control was becoming increasingly flaky. I monitored with event viewer for long periods of time. What I was observing was when issuing a device command to come on or off, the transmit signal was logged but the return status was dicey. This was becoming worse with time This paints a picture that the electrical path from the PLM to Insteon devices has become unreliable. Have you recently plugged in any new devices that might be causing noise, or sucking signals? Or perhaps unplugged a device that was bridging the legs of your electrical system? 3 hours ago, DAnderson01 said: It keeps trying to write to the devices to update for new PLM but no response from any devices so everything ends up with exclamations. Depending on how many Insteon devices you have, completing all those writes could take some time. Are any of your Insteon devices mobile, like a plug-in module? If so, you might try plugging the PLM and one of the mobile devices into the same outlet. Then right-click on the mobile device and choose "Write Updates to Device" to see if that is successful. Listing the steps you went through when you replaced the PLM will also help others to brainstorm what might be going on. Likewise an Event Viewer log (Level 3) of your attempt to write updates to a device could be helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAnderson01 Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 kclenden: Point taken in first paragraph. Will try PLM with portable device; good check. Only change in system for long length in time is the addition of freezer in garage and was unplugged today for test purposes; no help. Passive bridge exists and hardwired in breaker box. Anyway, ALL devices not communicating before and after PLM change. Today, powered down several Insteaon devices at a time going through all devices.hoping to find a faulty device. No luck with that process. Installation of new PLM done by standard procedure. Yes write updates take some time but none successful at least as far as write backs is concerned. The system has been up and running for many years. I still have 5 Insteon Icon devices in play. Initially system was controlled directly by Elk but migrated to ISY at least 5 years ago. System has been stable for many years with occasional older device failures and replacements and occasional additions. No replacements or additions recently other than new PLM today. Will add more to this tomorrow after some other things to check. Solar panels for one but they have been on line for over a 1.5 years. Going to take panels offline anyway along with communication system. Checked with SunPower and Micro Inverters do not communicate anything on power line. Only by separate RS-485 multidrop. Still have to rule them out. As stated, trouble started 2 or 3 days ago and deteriorated rapidly but not total failure all at once. Have been powering down various items around the house but have not gotten around to everything. Will be checking phase bridge as well. More later. Dane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teken Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 kclenden: Point taken in first paragraph. Will try PLM with portable device; good check. Only change in system for long length in time is the addition of freezer in garage and was unplugged today for test purposes; no help. Passive bridge exists and hardwired in breaker box. Anyway, ALL devices not communicating before and after PLM change. Today, powered down several Insteaon devices at a time going through all devices.hoping to find a faulty device. No luck with that process. Installation of new PLM done by standard procedure. Yes write updates take some time but none successful at least as far as write backs is concerned. The system has been up and running for many years. I still have 5 Insteon Icon devices in play. Initially system was controlled directly by Elk but migrated to ISY at least 5 years ago. System has been stable for many years with occasional older device failures and replacements and occasional additions. No replacements or additions recently other than new PLM today. Will add more to this tomorrow after some other things to check. Solar panels for one but they have been on line for over a 1.5 years. Going to take panels offline anyway along with communication system. Checked with SunPower and Micro Inverters do not communicate anything on power line. Only by separate RS-485 multidrop. Still have to rule them out. As stated, trouble started 2 or 3 days ago and deteriorated rapidly but not total failure all at once. Have been powering down various items around the house but have not gotten around to everything. Will be checking phase bridge as well. More later. Dane Hi Dane,Once you have confirmed proper bridging / coupling via the 4 tap beacon test. Do a basic check by removing a battery device. Hard reset the same then bring it to the 2413S PLM.Attempt to add this single device - what happens?!? Lastly, does the unit change state in the AC once activated ?? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAnderson01 Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 Kclenden: Thank you for your valuable input. Issue now resolved. Quick overview: In hall / coat closet is Elk, ISY, WiFi bridge, and some other stuff. One wall fairly populated. Included in that array of stuff is a UPS which keeps things going in case of power failure. UPS has been in the mix for some number of years. Apparently something with UPS has changed / failed. Unplugged UPS from line power and was able to communicate with Insteon devices as before running on UPS power. UPS is now bypassed and OOS. Case closed other than replacing UPS or more cheaply adding filter. Naturally, it was the last thing on my check list. All devices now updated / restored to new PLM and old PLM kept for spare. Jeez Louise. Dane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian H Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 If the PLM was on one of the UPS backup outputs or even one of its surge-filtered outputs. It will absorb the Insteon power line commands. Some UPS units AC input would also absorb the commands. I have my UPS on the filtered outlet on a FilterLinc and my PLM in the unfiltered outlet on the front cover. As full power AC current is below the FilterLinc's 10 amp rating. If above 10 amps but below 15 amps. JV Digital still makes a 15 amp filter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAnderson01 Posted August 25, 2020 Share Posted August 25, 2020 Late response to Brian, but PLM has always been upstream of UPS surge or no surge. Battery in subject UPS just recently required replacement. Back in June when the issue first occurred and finally identifying UPS as source, I put UPS back in service after adding FilterLinc to supply side of UPS. The oddity to the story for me was some years of reliable operation with no FilterLinc for UPS and then a few days of Insteon increasing communication decay ending in total failure caused by UPS. Anyway, all has been 100% since the UPS fiasco and based on my experience, recommend FilterLinc for all UPS's as matter of good practice even if all is working well. As stated above, I spent a lot of time isolating the issue and UPS check was last on my list and a dark horse candidate due to history. Just hope it may save someone some time. Won't get fooled again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAnderson01 Posted August 25, 2020 Share Posted August 25, 2020 Post Script: Taking my own advice, I prophylacticly added FilterLinc to another, larger UPS at our central networking location for the home and added one to our DC, battery backed garage door opener which is in fact a UPS. The FilterLinc added to the garage door opener noticeably increased communication performance (100%) for the Insteon IOLinc. I had been working with the scripting for it for some time thinking there was a timing problem. So there's that too. Sky is blue, birds are singing. DFA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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