ISY doesn't reliably turn devices in outdoor scene off

[Bruce L]

I have a scene with my outdoor lights (porch, garage, steps).  It can be turned on by different things (switches, motion sensors, door sensors) but is generally turned off by the ISY on a 7 minute timer.  The problem I've been having is that the porch and garage don't turn off reliably.  I changed the ISY from turning the scene off to turning the devices off individually hoping the trace would be clearer.  This morning I woke up and the porch light was on but the others were off, so I saved the diagnostic trace.    2C.1A.27 is the porch light that didn't go off and 27.C4.9E and 3B.A7.84 did go off.

 

Sat 12/30/2017 03:41:53 AM : [iNST-TX-I1  ] 02 62 27 C4 9E 0F 13 00

 

Sat 12/30/2017 03:41:53 AM : [iNST-TX-I1  ] 02 62 2C 1A 27 0F 13 00

 

Sat 12/30/2017 03:41:53 AM : [iNST-TX-I1  ] 02 62 3B A7 84 0F 13 00

 

Sat 12/30/2017 03:41:53 AM : [iNST-ACK    ] 02 62 27.C4.9E 0F 13 00 06          LTOFFRR(00)

 

Sat 12/30/2017 03:41:53 AM : [iNST-ACK    ] 02 62 2C.1A.27 0F 13 00 06          LTOFFRR(00)

 

Sat 12/30/2017 03:41:53 AM : [iNST-ACK    ] 02 62 2C.1A.27 0F 13 00 06          LTOFFRR(00):  Duplicate or ACK for a different device 

 

Sat 12/30/2017 03:41:53 AM : [iNST-SRX    ] 02 50 27.C4.9E 3C.4A.A6 2F 13 00    LTOFFRR(00)

 

Sat 12/30/2017 03:41:53 AM : [std-Direct Ack] 27.C4.9E-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=3

 

Sat 12/30/2017 03:41:53 AM : [D2D EVENT   ] Event [27 C4 9E 1] [sT] [0] uom=0 prec=-1

 

Sat 12/30/2017 03:41:53 AM : [  27 C4 9E 1]       ST   0

 

Sat 12/30/2017 03:41:54 AM : [iNST-ACK    ] 02 62 3B.A7.84 0F 13 00 06          LTOFFRR(00)

 

Sat 12/30/2017 03:41:54 AM : [iNST-SRX    ] 02 50 3B.A7.84 3C.4A.A6 2F 13 00    LTOFFRR(00)

 

Sat 12/30/2017 03:41:54 AM : [std-Direct Ack] 3B.A7.84-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=3

 

Sat 12/30/2017 03:41:54 AM : [D2D EVENT   ] Event [3B A7 84 1] [sT] [0] uom=0 prec=-1

 

Sat 12/30/2017 03:41:54 AM : [  3B A7 84 1]       ST   0

 

Sat 12/30/2017 03:41:54 AM : [D2D-CMP 001D] STS [3B A7 84 1] ST op=1 Event(val=0 uom=0 prec=-1) is Condition(val=255 uom=0 prec=-1) --> false

 

 

I'm hoping that "Duplicate or ACK for a different device" means something, as it's the last message involving the porch switch.

 

I have maybe 30 insteon devices around the house.   I wouldn't think there would be a network connectivity problem here.

 

Thanks,

Bruce

  

 

 

[apostolakisl]

Typically when a device turns on consistently but fails to turn off, it is a comm issue where the device itself is the source of the comm problem.  For example, a cfl bulb that is "noisy".  I don't know what your porch light is.  But if it is a cfl or led, that may be the culprit.  As a test, try putting an incandescent bulb in the fixture and see if the problem goes away. 

[ronvond]

I had much the same problem with a single set of my landscape lights not turning off.  There are four separate items that are controlled (all on the same circuit).  My first step was to initiated a "Wait" state of 5 seconds between items.  That increased the reliability somewhat, but my "North" lights still failed on occasion.  They were number four on the list.  I moved them up to the number one position in the program, and no further problems.

Hope this helps

[Bruce L]

Hmmm, they are CFLs in the porch.  Some of the few CFLs I have left in my house.  The garage floods are LEDs, though I think I had the same problem when they were incandescents.   I wonder if the lights being cold produces more interference?  I don't have this problem with any of my interior lights.

 

Can the ISY be programmed to do retries automatically?  I have several programs controlling these lights already and could write something to check that they go off, but would rather this just work automatically.

 

Bruce

[stusviews]

I agree with apostolakisl. A load that turns on, but not off is almost invariably due to the load itself. Increasing the number of retries is a temporary fix at best. All non-incandescent bulbs are subject to this affect as they age, most especially CFLs. A simple test is to change the load.

[Bruce L]

The problem happens pretty rarely (my best guess would be < 5% of the time).  I've never seen a manual retry "oh the lights are on, let me turn them off" fail (even when issued from a remote switch).  It's a bit hard to know when it fails---most commonly it's when I'm coming home in the middle of the afternoon and notice the porch or garage lights are still on.  And I see it happen with brand new LED floodlights. 

 

Regardless, there are already quite a few programs controlling these lights (I use fast on to disable the automatic off, and the step lights are separated during the holidays b/c the christmas lights are plugged into that controller instead).   So it was pretty simple for me to add an automatic retry of turning the scene off.  We'll see if I notice any more problems.

 

Thanks

Bruce

 

Outside Delay Off - [iD 000F][Parent 0008][Not Enabled]

 

If

        Program 'Lock On/Off' is False

 

Then

        Stop program 'Outside Switched Off If'

        Stop program 'Outside Steps Off If'

        Wait  7 minutes 

        Run Program 'Outside Switched Off If' (If)

        Run Program 'Outside Steps Off If' (If)

 

Else

   - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

 

 

Outside Switched Off If - [iD 0013][Parent 0008][Not Enabled]

 

If

        Program 'Lock On/Off' is False

    And-(

       |     Status  'Outside / Outside Porch' is On

       |  Or Status  'Outside / Garage Flood' is On

       -)

 

Then

        Set Scene 'Outside / Outside Switched' Off

        Wait  10 seconds

        Run Program 'Outside Switched Off If' (If)

 

Else

   - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

 

 

[lilyoyo1]

As Stusviews already stated, what you're doing is only temporary. As CFLs age the problem will only get worse. You're better off fixing the problem by swapping the bulbs.