Swimming pool water level control

[larryllix]

15 hours ago, frank said:

My biggest problem is I do not have a float and need some wireless method to detect when the water is to a level I have pre selected which I could then use to control a solenoid to allow water to enter the pool. Either an Insteon or zwave method to determine the water level would be the preferred solution.


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You will ned a Tag manager for this and install some kumoapp software for this. That's pretty easy and in other threads. Some have used the self-contained notifications into ISY for sensing output.

 

https://store.wirelesstag.net/products/wireless-water-moisture-sensor-2-0

[Mustang65]

My 2AM thought process.

How about this. Get an Insteon/ZWAVE water leak sensor. Seal it tight, probably with epoxy. If you have a pool where the water flows into the return at the pools surface level, they usually have a cover over that area. You may have to mount the water leak sensor sideways because of the antenna, and make the contact connections at a 90 degree angle.

Purchase an INSTEON water leak sensor or a ZWAVE  if they have one.

- While your pool water level is at a point that it needs to be refilled

- Measure the space between the bottom of the cover plate and the water level

- FILL your pool to the level you want

- Measure the space between the bottom of the cover plate and the water level 

- Subtract the thickness of the water leak sensor case from the above measurements

- Extend the 2 INSTEON/ZWAVE water leak sensor contacts on the bottom of the sensor case (solder 2 metal rods to the contacts)

- Mount the water leak sensor to the bottom of the cover.

- The length of the mounted rods should be a length so that when the water level is low, the rods will not be contacting the water (ISY will see a WET - OFF/DRY - ON) and your program will trigger a "TIME TO FILL POOL" text message and possibly  activate a fill pool program (not really recommended). Not sure if you need to reset the sensor each time it has been activated. You can put a wait in the program of maybe 1 hour to insure that the activation is TRUE and not just a wake, or set the program to check at times when the pump is not operating.

You may have to clean the extended contacts every now and then, just like my soil moisture sensors. Maintenance 

You could also program in a timer that would track time between your fill up and refill time to indicate normal loss or rapid loss due to a leak somewhere, like in a pump fitting.

Something to think about

 

[frank]

Thanks everyone. Certainly some good suggestions to contemplate. Appreciate all the responses.


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[pyrorobert]

So my pool was built without an autofill and I was only able to fill it by manually turning on the water. I understand you need a wireless solution, but this is how I wired mine. I installed an I/Olinc and wired it to Sprinkler valve with a Waterflow sensor. The sensor only advises me when the water is running with a text message and an email every 30 minutes. If it runs over an hour then the valve is controlled to shut off. Unfortunately the only 1" Waterflow sensor that I found is not spring loaded, so I had to create a loop on the pipes to keep it in the right position. It works quite well and I automatically run it once a week for 30 minutes. See the photo attached

[frank]

Very close to what I’m thinking. I am imagining using a solenoid at 12 volts wired to a transformer plunged into an on/off zwave or Insteon switch. That will satisfy my “control” I am still looking for a solution as to how to wirelessly determine the level of the water in the pool so I can use that information to run a program to control when to turn on/off the water valve. It must be a wireless water level transmitter because I can’t run wiring.
Thanks for the inputs.


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[Teken]

1 hour ago, frank said:

Very close to what I’m thinking. I am imagining using a solenoid at 12 volts wired to a transformer plunged into an on/off zwave or Insteon switch. That will satisfy my “control” I am still looking for a solution as to how to wirelessly determine the level of the water in the pool so I can use that information to run a program to control when to turn on/off the water valve. It must be a wireless water level transmitter because I can’t run wiring.
Thanks for the inputs.


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The Insteon Open-Close sensor is one of those possible solutions. Has internal I/O jack to install external wiring which you can then insert into the pool. You can mount the Open-Close sensor where ever you like for best range and placement.

That can't easily be done with the Insteon Leak Sensor . . .

[frank]

The Insteon Open-Close sensor is one of those possible solutions. Has internal I/O jack to install external wiring which you can then insert into the pool. You can mount the Open-Close sensor where ever you like for best range and placement.
That can't easily be done with the Insteon Leak Sensor . . .

Thanks Teken. I will probably give the open/close device a try.


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[frank]

Does anyone have a suggestion on a reliable program to do the following while using the Insteon on/off window switch to control an on/off Insteon outlet switch:

Between 1:00am and 2:00am
If window sensor is on
Turn on outlet switch( which will activate a solenoid)
Stay on for 45 minutes or until window sensor turns off
Verify outlet is off
Reset for next cycle

Thanks,
Frank



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[larryllix]

43 minutes ago, frank said:

Does anyone have a suggestion on a reliable program to do the following while using the Insteon on/off window switch to control an on/off Insteon outlet switch:

Between 1:00am and 2:00am
If window sensor is on
Turn on outlet switch( which will activate a solenoid)
Stay on for 45 minutes or until window sensor turns off
Verify outlet is off
Reset for next cycle

Thanks,
Frank



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Your posted words almost writes the program. Use Control is Switched On and a turn off the receptacle in the Else section.

You can use another program as a watchdog to watch the receptacle for ever being on more than 45 minutes and send a notification to yourself.

[frank]

Does anyone know of a simple water flow device that is either Insteon or Z Wave? I would like to verify that water is NOT flowing when solenoid is turned off.


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[frank]

I purchased a valve with a flow sensor imbedded and looking for best method to interface with isy994i. Anyone have any suggestions? Thanks.


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[mwester]

What sort of flow sensor -- what signal does it send, at what voltage/current, etc?

[frank]

It’s a Uxcell model 9F:1404-0101-00P 1/2 inch that uses Hall effect. Has three leads coming out. Red, black and yellow. Not so concerned about volume of water in any period of time, just want to confirm my ball valve was turned off and NO water is flowing. This flow sensor will be installed after the ball valve and before entering the pool plumbing.


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[mwester]

No google hits for that model...

[frank]

Any suggestions on ANY generic type Hall effect type device?


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[Mustang65]

Amazon has a NPT 3/4" flow sensor. Hall effect type. The sensors on Amazon that start with "G" are British thread not NPT

Don

https://www.amazon.com/H2OPro-3-Wire-Digital-Collector-Output/dp/B077H8BCJJ/ref=sr_1_fkmr1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1525561985&sr=8-1-fkmr1&keywords=liquid+flow+meter+npt+3%2F4+inch+sensor

 

[Mustang65]

On ‎4‎/‎3‎/‎2018 at 11:26 PM, larryllix said:

You will ned a Tag manager for this and install some kumoapp software for this. That's pretty easy and in other threads. Some have used the self-contained notifications into ISY for sensing output.

 

https://store.wirelesstag.net/products/wireless-water-moisture-sensor-2-0

The issue with this one is The battery installed has 3x capacity than in regular Wireless Sensor Tag but is not replaceable.

[mwester]

On 5/2/2018 at 9:15 AM, frank said:

Any suggestions on ANY generic type Hall effect type device?


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For generic hall-effect flow sensors, one applies +5 volts to the red wire, ground is connected to the black wire, and the yellow wire goes to the input pin for a microprocessor such as an arduino or an ESP8266 (or ESP32) -- the pin should be configured as a input with a pull-up.  Each revolution of the spinning magnet inside the flow sensor will cause a momentary pulse (from logic 1 to logic 0 and back to logic 1) on the input pin.  Counting those pulses and computing how many per second will yield the flow rate.  One way to get this information to the ISY would be to connect an output pin from that same microprocessor to an IOLinc, and trigger the IOLinc when some threshold has been reached.  Alternately, if the microprocessor has a network connection (ESP family, for example), you could program it to set a variable on the ISY to reflect the current state of the input logic pulses from the flow sensor.

What you cannot do is connect the flow sensor directly to any Insteon device, or to the ISY.  I'm not aware of any Z-Wave device that takes a hall-effect flow sensor input directly, but there might be one somewhere...

[Mustang65]

How about a low pressure switch 3.1PSI (max 150 psi allowed) on your pipe. It can  be used with the Insteon Remote Control Plug-in Low Voltage Controller. This should also catch a valve that is not totally closing.

Don

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00K24KN8S/ref=sspa_dk_detail_5?psc=1&pd_rd_i=B00K24KN8S&pd_rd_wg=fajQK&pd_rd_r=PXWM0PXED6QA84KFYP4K&pd_rd_w=iopoa

 

[frank]

Thanks to all who have responded. I have settled on a flow “switch” instead of a flow “meter”. With the switch I will connect to an open/close device to monitor if water is flowing or not.


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[builderb]

The auto top off on my fish tank is a scaled down version of this. It uses an optical level sensor to turn on a pump to replace evaporated water with RODI water to maintain water parameters.

The water surface is pretty turbulent too. The trick is that the sensor doesn’t trigger the pump until the sensor is open for two seconds. For a pool, I’m sure you could stretch that to a minute or more. That keeps the pump from coming on every time a wave trough passes by.

[frank]

Can you provide more info on the optical sensor you are using. I am finding that a float switch which uses a magnetic micro switch does not have enough distance between on and off and also oscillates on/off when water is at the trip point. I need something like a snap switch but can’t find one that will do the job. Someone had suggested a pressure switch but don’t have any experience with them.


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[larryllix]

Can you provide more info on the optical sensor you are using. I am finding that a float switch which uses a magnetic micro switch does not have enough distance between on and off and also oscillates on/off when water is at the trip point. I need something like a snap switch but can’t find one that will do the job. Someone had suggested a pressure switch but don’t have any experience with them.


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Sump pumps have pressure and tilt switches that come with them or can be purchased separately.

Hysteresis can be done with time delays in ISY.

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