Need KPL OFF button to have LED off. How?

[LeeG]

Illusion,

 

One difference is the KPL was added under an image before 2.8.2. On my system the v36 KPL was added after upgrading to 2.8.2. Since the trace shows no attempt to use the 2E Extended command that both Tim and I see when doing the same thing it is likely the device definition was done before 2.8.2 and it does not indicate the KPL is capable of using that command even though we know it is. Is it possible the ISY was not in Automatic when the KPL was added. Also does the Admin Console show the KPL at v36 or v00.

 

TJF1960

 

Did you add the KPLs that are working using an image before 2.8.2.

[Illusion]

The ISY was in Automatic when the v.36 (displayed) was added. Up to this point I have never changed that setting.

 

Switching the radio button to 'Device Reported' fixes the issue and the ISY uses the 2E command and now can switch toggle modes on these KPLs.

 

Is it okay to leave this set as 'Device Reported' or should I switch back to 'Automatic'?

[LeeG]

Perhaps Michel or Rand can provide a more informed answer but I think you want to run in Automatic. It will likely require you to Remove the KPL and add it back under 2.8.2 to eliminate the need to specify other than Automatic when updating the toggle mode.

 

My KPL add and toggle mode test was at 2.8.2 and in Automatic mode.

[Illusion]

Holly Smokes. This fixed a ton of bugs. I switched back to Automatic, but it still requested the Comm version from the switches the first time I opened the buttons toggle mode. I closed the Admin Console and reopened it. No more comm mode requests in the event viewer, but still using the E2 commands. Not only can I correctly adjust toggle mode, a button that would only send an on command even though its LED was off has fixed itself. Also I had a MUTEX grouping of 2 buttons (only from one of the buttons perspective) that I did not set up, and did not show in the buttons grouping matrix but I could not get rid of it. After going back to automatic, I did something I had tried multiple times previously. I put the 2 buttons in a MUTEX scene in the grouping dialog box. Said Okay. Opened the dialog box back up and removed them. Bam! All fixed. I have no idea how they got MUTEXed in the first place if the comm method was not working.

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi,

 

Device Reported is going to cause major issues with other devices that report as i2 but do not support i2 commands.

 

Automatic uses i2 only for devices that we know support i2:

Motion Sensors

TriggerLinc

EZIOxxx

 

I would not change the mode to Automatic.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[Illusion]

So on this same subject, today I noticed that on my 6 button KPL v.36 when I went to turn it off, it tuned off a secondary KPL button. Said secondary KPL button is not in any shared scenes and does not show up in the buttons grouping screen. This paticular 6 button KPL is only used to run programs, except for the main on/off buttons which do trigger a scene. As a result, there are no MUTEX relationships between the buttons. And indeed I show no MUTEX info at all in the button grouping dialog box.

 

But nonetheless, when I press the big off button, secondary button #1 turns off. I try creating a scene, put all the secondary buttons in it with the main button, then clear all the responders out of that scene. No good. I go into the button grouping dialog box and add the main button and the problem seconday button to a MUTEX scene and then remove them. Again no good.

 

I notice in the event viewer that the ISY is back to using i1 peek poke and stuff. I switch back to 'Device Reported' in link management. Open the button grouping dialog box and see the ISY query the engine version which gets reported as i2. Now I repeat the process of putting the main KPL button and the problem secondary button in a MUTEX scene. I then remove them. Problem solved. The seconday button no longer turns off when I hit the big off button.

 

Again, I have no idea how in my initial programming these MUTEX relationships got established. And further, how in the world I could have a MUTEX relationship but only from one buttons perspective, as I did on the 8 button KPL. And finially, how could these relationships be created when it appears that unless I actively intervene in the link management method the ISY uses the ISY cannot change the button's MUTEX or Toggle Mode on these v.36 KPLs.

[Michel Kohanim]

Hello Illusion,

 

I think the major problem is that the event viewer is giving out too much information.

 

i1 and i2 are two methods of communicating with devices. This said, however, i2 has different flavors:

1. using i2 to configure the database

2. using i2 to set/get operational parameters

 

In Automatic mode, ISY gets the engine version and if indeed the version is i2, then it will use i2 get/set methods as long as they are supported. If not, then it reverts to using PEEK/POKE.

 

As far as database management, ISY never uses i2 for anything else except:

1. Motion Sensors

2. TriggerLincs

3. Some EZxxx devices

 

Do you have anything else in that scene or is it just a scene for the buttons on that KPL?

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[Illusion]

On the new 6 button KPL in question I had the sub button in question in a scene by itself. It was in no other scenes until I added it to a temporary scene with the main button expressly for the purpose of trying to clear the MUTEX relationship. (Or at least what appeared to be a MUTEX relationship)

[Michel Kohanim]

Illusion,

 

What you are experiencing is NOT right. Automatic mode should work for your KPL (I explicitly tested V36). It's odd that factory reset didn't fix the issue ... I am at a loss.

 

How old is your KPL V36?

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[Illusion]

Purchased this 6 button and 2 8 button KPLs Sept. 3rd 2010. All were factory reset prior to adding to the ISY. I was able to adjust the toggle mode remotely on none of these switches until messing with the link method. Unsure if MUTEX would have worked at some point. Did not mess with that until the end when that was my only issue left, and when I got that right (No Mutex relationships on any KPL) I stopped messing with it.

 

Had no problem adding to scenes, programs, or adjusting back-light levels.

 

I know something is amiss. I have never before had a KPL that had a button locked in the off mode that would only send an on command. (a problem that was only corrected after working with the switch in automatic mode). I could not even get this one secondary button to switch to toggle mode using the otherwise 100% reliable manual method.

[Michel Kohanim]

Hello Illusion,

 

We will have to contact SmartHome. Perhaps the newer switches have changed the firmware/behavior without our knowledge.

 

Just to be clear, all these switches show v36, correct?

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[Illusion]

Correct. All three switches report v.36 in the ISY.

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi Illusion,

 

I contacted SH today with respect to this specific issue and they said that the firmware has not changed in any of the V36s. So, my v36 should be equal to your v36. I just cannot understand why mine works and yours does not.

 

I think the best thing to do for me would be to order one of these new KPLs and see how they behave. My only explanation is that the newer v36s changed something.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[LeeG]

Michel,

 

It was not working before because the I2 Extended Set command was not being used in Illusions environment. When he changed the link management option away from Automatic then the I2 Extended Set was used. Although it did continue to work after changing back to Automatic I suspect it has regressed back to not using the I2 Extended Set command. The v36 KPL I have always uses the I2 Extended Set in Automatic mode so there is something unusual going on with Illusion setup. I am on 2.8.2 and Illusion is on 2.7.15.

 

Illusion,

 

Can you turn on Event Viewer Change level 3 and run a Set Options on the KPL that is not working now. I suspect the Event Viewer will not show any I2 Extended Set commands. That is what the Event Viewer trace you posted showed before, no I2 Extended Set command usage.

 

Lee

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi LeeG,

 

Thanks so very much for the explanation. I did try it here and indeed ISY is using i2 (in Automatic mode). Perhaps the device was added using the third method OR once added, ISY could not ensure that i2 commands were supported.

 

Wtih kind regards,

Michel

[LeeG]

Michel,

 

That makes three of us that see the I2 Extended Set being used with the v36 KPL. Illiusion is running 2.7.15 (I was 2.8.2, now 2.8.3 and I think TJF1960 is 2.8.2). Illusions post showed no attempt to use the Extended Set which made me think something on 2.7.15 or as you say perhaps the option the KPL was originally added under. Looking forward to a new Event Trace to see what is actually happening now.

 

Lee

[Illusion]

Lee,

 

I was on 2.8.2 per your suggestion when I sent you this:

 

Upgraded to 2.8.2 Check this out. Still does not work.

 

Log of event viewer:

 

Fri 10/01/2010 04:57:39 PM : [15 9A FF 1  ] Memory : Write dbAddr=0x0249 [C7]

Fri 10/01/2010 04:57:39 PM : [15 9A FF 1  ] Using engine version i1 for 'HVAC KPL'

Fri 10/01/2010 04:57:39 PM : [iNST-ACK    ] 02 62 15.9A.FF 0F 28 02 06          SET-MSB(02)

Fri 10/01/2010 04:57:40 PM : [iNST-SRX    ] 02 50 15.9A.FF 0C.A6.33 2B 28 02    SET-MSB(02)

Fri 10/01/2010 04:57:40 PM : [standard-Direct Ack][15.9A.FF-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2

Fri 10/01/2010 04:57:40 PM : [iNST-ACK    ] 02 62 15.9A.FF 0F 2B 49 06          PEEK   (49)

Fri 10/01/2010 04:57:40 PM : [iNST-SRX    ] 02 50 15.9A.FF 0C.A6.33 2B 2B 04    PEEK   (04)

Fri 10/01/2010 04:57:40 PM : [standard-Direct Ack][15.9A.FF-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2

Fri 10/01/2010 04:57:40 PM : [iNST-ACK    ] 02 62 15.9A.FF 0F 29 C7 06          POKE   (C7)

Fri 10/01/2010 04:57:41 PM : [iNST-SRX    ] 02 50 15.9A.FF 0C.A6.33 2B 29 C7    POKE   (C7)

Fri 10/01/2010 04:57:41 PM : [standard-Direct Ack][15.9A.FF-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2

Fri 10/01/2010 04:57:41 PM : [iNST-ACK    ] 02 62 15.9A.FF 0F 24 00 06                 (00)

Fri 10/01/2010 04:57:41 PM : [iNST-SRX    ] 02 50 15.9A.FF 0C.A6.33 2B 24 00           (00)

Fri 10/01/2010 04:57:41 PM : [standard-Direct Ack][15.9A.FF-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2

Fri 10/01/2010 04:57:41 PM : [15 9A FF 1  ] Memory : EPROM Refreshed

 

Link Management is set to Automatic

 

Link Management was set to automatic when devices were added. It has always been set to automatic. I have never touched that setting until this issue.

 

Just tried to change toggle mode on all three switches in question. Link Mode left in automatic. Success in all three cases. ISY using i2 Extended messaging. Do not know what to tell you. Do not know why it was not working until I went to device reported link management after going to 2.8.2 did not work.

[LeeG]

So the KPL that was not working is consistently working after updating it under 2.8.2 in Device Reported mode even when you go back to Automatic mode?

 

I was anticipating having to Remove the KPL and add it back under 2.8.2 using Automatic mode to get it to use the I2 command consistently.

[Illusion]

All three KPLs would consistently fail (100% of the time) changing toggle mode to start with.

 

Upgraded to 2.8.2.

 

All three KPLs would consistently fail (100% of the time) changing toggle mode.

 

Switched link Management mode to 'Device Reported'.

 

All three KPL would consistently succeed (100% of the time) changing toggle mode.

 

Switched link Management mode back to 'Automatic'

 

Still working on evaluating consistency at this point. I think I had successes but then closed the admin console, opened it another day and had failure where the event viewer showed using i1 again instead of i2. But I have been very busy this week and could have been mistaken about this one point. I was not paying a ton of attention to my process at that point because I just wanted my setup right and now I had a way to get there in a pinch because I could switch link management modes. I was not thinking about that aspect from a debugging standpoint at that point in time. I did not realize my situation would be so interesting to others and potentially not repeatable to the point where I should be documenting each step as it were performed for reference.

 

I am currently not able to repeat the failures. All three KPLs are using i2 extended messages and changing toggle modes just fine.

 

And again I repeat: The KPLs were added to the system under 2.7.15 with link management set to 'Automatic'. I have never changed that setting before this exercise. KPLs added to ISY, added to scenes, and had back light adjustable without a problem. Only the toggle mode and the MUTEX thing I still have never figured out were problems.

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi Illusion,

 

Thanks so very much for the update. Please note that there are two distinct scenarios:

1. Using i2 for database manipulation

2. Using i2 for Get/Set attribute methods

 

Just because ISY is using i1 for database manipulation does not mean that it does not use i2 for Get/Set methods. As a matter of fact, that's what the calibration does: it tries to figure out whether or not the device supports Get/Set methods using i2.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[Illusion]

I have started a new thread. I think it is possible that it is a related issue.

 

Lee, I know how much you like reading event viewer literature so I made a series of posts with copious event viewer logs of the problem I am encountering...

 

http://forum.universal-devices.com/view ... 8746#38746

[Illusion]

Update...

 

Got new PLM because of link limit issue. Used 'Restore PLM'. Two of my new v.36 KPLs went through this process fine. One however did not show the need to write (I was in batch mode). No matter what I did I could not get this KPL to join in. I used all the tricks I could think of, eventually I factory reset it, removed it from the ISY and added it back in under the current version I am running (2.8.2). Of course I needed to force the off button to be off again.

 

Link mode left in automatic. Changed toggle mode. This time it used the extended message on the first try and successfully changed modes. Previous adding of this device to the ISY was under 2.7.15. So there you go...

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi Illlusion, thanks so very much for the update. So, it was the PLM causing all the issues?

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[Illusion]

Unsure.

 

Plan to test toggle mode with other KPLs later this week. Change over of PLM was very time intensive and I have run out of time. I plan to do a separate topic later in the week of my experiences with the PLM replacement. May be some interesting tidbits in there for you when I do.

[Michel Kohanim]

Thanks Illusion. Looking forward to it.

 

In the meantime, I received a new KPL and it's also working fine.

 

With kind regards,

Michel