X10 Pro XPF Filters??

[ergodic]

Is the XPF filter useable for Insteon?

 

I'm putting some fluorescent fixed in my garage which caused a modest comm issue with Insteon on that circuit when the lights are on (they are electronic ballast). That part was not a surprise.

 

So I have a couple of 20A X10 Pro XPF filters sitting around, one of which I tried on the circuit. Surprisingly it had no effect at all. Lights on - poor comm. Lights off - everything fine. I couldn't tell the difference between filter and no filter.

 

These look like simple, beefy, passive bandpass devices and so I assumed they would work for Insteon as well as X10, but possibly that is wrong? If they do then I guess I have some other issue but I can't figure out what that would be. Queries work fine - almost instantaneous on the circuit when the lights are - and barely work at all when the lights are on.

[IndyMike]

ergodic,

 

X10 brand filters do typically work for Insteon as well. Most of the filters available are band stop units that filter in a window region around 120 - 130 KHz. This covers both Insteon and X10 transmissions.

 

It's possible that your lights are generating noise below the bandstop range where the filter is ineffective. Most of my CFL's generate noise in the 60 - 80 Khz range. If this is the case, a true low pass filter would be more appropriate. The the Leviton 6288 plug in filter is a true low pass unit. It is a bit more expensive and to my knowledge, only available in a 5A unit.

 

The rub here is that I thought the XPF filters were essentially the same as the Leviton (low pass). If these are newer units (since '07) it's possible that X10 modified the design to take out some cost (Value Engineering).

 

In any case, it would appear that you have pinned the problem down to noise from the fluorescents. If you don't have a O'scope or spectrum analyzer available to measure the noise frequency, I'd suggest giving the Leviton 6288 a try. If you do go this route, please report back your results.

 

IM

[ergodic]

Well, a 10A FilterLinc fixed the problem 100%. A query on that circuit now executes immediately and without retries regardless of fluorescent light state. The utility box is now a weird contraption with an outlet and a 3-wire pigtail plug wire running back into the box, but it all looks OK and I think is code. More or less. Maybe less.

 

The rule for me now is to just use the FilterLinc when possible and not fool around. I do have a 5A Leviton (on an undercabinet electronic transformer). Seems to run a little hotter than I'd expect but you're probably right if you need a small-duty inline that may be the other way to go.

[IndyMike]

ergodic,

 

It's very interesting that the 10A Filterlinc did the job where the XPF would not. I did make an error in my post - I misread your post and thought you were using a 5A X10 XPPF filter. I believe these are the same as the Leviton 6288 (low pass).

 

After searching around, I found documentation stating the the 20A XPF filter is a low pass design (L-C-L-C-L configuration). Interestingly, X10 chose to place bypass capacitors on the inductors, making this filter less effective at high frequencies. Some users have removed these capacitors to improve high frequency filtering.

 

I also found some posts on the X10 forum indicating that "recent" X10 filters may have some quality problems. One person reported that, out of a group of 4 filters, only one proved effective in eliminating noise in his application. Not exactly scientific, but it does indicate a fair amount of variability in the filter breakpoint.

 

Glad to hear that you've resolved the problem,

IM

[ergodic]

Thanks for checking. I can confirm there are indeed small bypass caps around each inductor -- which is what I was presuming makes this a bandstop. I suppose they may be there just to moderate on/of switching surges since the thing has no internal fusing or surge protection. I'm not comfortable fooling with it since I don't really understand the design. Tossed back in the bucket.

 

Have you ever tried the AF300 20A on Insteon? I'd still like to have a wire-in solution available in case the issue comes up again. Which it will.

[Zick]

I'd like to bring this topic back up because just like ergodic I am also having a severe comm issue when I turn on my garage fluorescent lightning. With the lights off I have no problems but when their on I lose all communication and nothing works.

 

Luckily I caught this post as I was just about to purchase those same 20A X10 Pro XPF filters.

 

I have two circuits that I need to filter and each one pulls around 6.5amps.

 

Is there a better solution out there that I would be able to hard wire in?

[Brian H]

Has anyone tried the ACT AF300?

The specifications sheet says it filters out frequencies above 300 Hz. at a 40/1 ratio.

 

I have not seen any other wire in filters with a 20 amp rating. Other than the XPF and AF300.

The smaller Leviton 6287 wire in filter, is only five amps.

 

If anyone is interested. I found a schematic of the FilterLinc.

http://home.comcast.net/~gafield/family ... Filter.pdf

[Zick]

I was thinking about trying the ACT AF300 but at $30 more than the XPF and $20 more than the Filterlinc I was hesitant to try it.

Sucks to have to spend $50 on something that may not work. Plus it's currently OOS.

[Brian H]

Yes the lowest price I found was $41.99 at Automated Outlet.

An automation dealer.

[Sub-Routine]

I have a plug-in AF120 (15 amp) on a bad fluorescent fixture. If I didn't already own the filter it would have been less expensive to swap out the fixture. I have six florescent fixtures in the area but only this one (a replacement) has an issue.

 

The filter Works for Me in this case.

 

Rand