How to Prevent Elk Arming due to Unlocked Door

[jeffreycowart]

Does anyone know how to program in ISY and/or ELK RP how to prevent arming due to an unlocked deadbolt (or other zwave sensor status)?

I installed a new Kwikset z-wave deadbolt, seems to be working OK.  I can tell the status and it does seem to update back to the ISY when locally operated.

I would like to prevent the ELK M1 from arming if the deadbolt is unlocked.  I would like the deadbolt status to be treated like a security virtual ELK zone.

I have written a program which turns on an ELK output to display the status, but I have not found a way to prevent the ELK from arming.

I thought about having the ISY turn on a physical output on the ELK, which is tied to a security zone, to mimic a security zone, but that seems like a very round about way.

 

Anyone have any experience trying to use z-wave devices as alarm zones?  Or know how to program logic to prevent arming if status is not locked?

 

Thanks for your help!

 

Jeff Cowart

[Scottmichaelj]

Do you have the ELK ISY Module? If so you could make it a program to not arm if the ZWave door lock is unlocked. You might want a push notification too to remind you if your driving away.

[MWareman]

AFAIK - even if you connect the Elk zwave module to an Elk - you still cannot use zwave sensors as alarm zones.

This is because zwave is not monitored by the Elk, and it can be rendered useless by a
The best solution I can think of. I believe there is a switch you can place in the deadbolt strike - you could wire such a switch to a native Elk zone to have the deadbolt drive an Elk entry/exit zone.

[Scottmichaelj]

AFAIK - even if you connect the Elk zwave module to an Elk - you still cannot use zwave sensors as alarm zones.  This is because zwave is not monitored by the Elk, and it can be rendered useless by a

The best solution I can think of. I believe there is a switch you can place in the deadbolt strike - you could wire such a switch to a native Elk zone to have the deadbolt drive an Elk entry/exit zone.

 

 

 If he has the ELK module and ISY ZWave, I was thinking he could have a program that said IF the door is unlocked and ELK is armed, then disarm. Essentially never being armed. Also a push notification to a cell phone or other verbal feedback from the ELK Echo speaker that the door is unlocked or something, X zone, front door needs to be locked. Whatever works for the user based on the available speech commands. I don’t have the list memorized

 

BUT you are also correct without those two items you would need a electric door strike instead and make an Elk rule to always lock the door via arming modes desired using the built in relay on the M1 board. Which can have drawbacks too, ie the deadbolt being in unlocked position will never lock.

 

Edit: Also how about reversing my thought to when the alarm is armed then run a program to autolock the ZWave door? That may also accomplish the desired result? Get CRAZY and do a second program to query status after X minutes of arming just to double verify or use variables.

[dbuss]

8 hours ago, Scottmichaelj said:

 If he has the ELK module and ISY ZWave, I was thinking he could have a program that said IF the door is unlocked and ELK is armed, then disarm. Essentially never being armed. Also a push notification to a cell phone or other verbal feedback from the ELK Echo speaker that the door is unlocked or something, X zone, front door needs to be locked. Whatever works for the user based on the available speech commands. I don’t have the list memorized

 

BUT you are also correct without those two items you would need a electric door strike instead and make an Elk rule to always lock the door via arming modes desired using the built in relay on the M1 board. Which can have drawbacks too, ie the deadbolt being in unlocked position will never lock.

 

Edit: Also how about reversing my thought to when the alarm is armed then run a program to autolock the ZWave door? That may also accomplish the desired result? Get CRAZY and do a second program to query status after X minutes of arming just to double verify or use variables.

I use similar programs with Elk and Z-Wave locks and it works well for me.

[MWareman]

All true, but question was asking about preventing the Elk from being able to arm (which requires a native Elk zone) vs having the ISY see an arm event and reverse it if the lock is unlocked. Same effect for sure (security wise) but I’d be concerned someone might arm the system and walk away, thinking they had armed it only to find out later their arm request was reversed because the lock was open. Notifications go some way to address this, but I’ll suggest that’s less than ideal.

 

Personally, I’d rather have the ‘Not Ready to Arm’ indication on the panel with the zone in violation being the deadbolt. I believe that can only be done with a switch in the deadbolt strike plate (like one of these... http://www.sdcsecurity.com/Latch-and-Deadbolt-Monitoring-Strikes.htm)

 

[Scottmichaelj]

All true, but question was asking about preventing the Elk from being able to arm (which requires a native Elk zone) vs having the ISY see an arm event and reverse it if the lock is unlocked. Same effect for sure (security wise) but I’d be concerned someone might arm the system and walk away, thinking they had armed it only to find out later their arm request was reversed because the lock was open. Notifications go some way to address this, but I’ll suggest that’s less than ideal.
 
Personally, I’d rather have the ‘Not Ready to Arm’ indication on the panel with the zone in violation being the deadbolt. I believe that can only be done with a switch in the deadbolt strike plate (like one of these... http://www.sdcsecurity.com/Latch-and-Deadbolt-Monitoring-Strikes.htm)
 

I guess it depends on the way you interpret the post/request and how you want to do it. I do agree with you and would not recommend using Insteon or ZWave as a security sensor or device. That said we could all forget to lock the door(s) (manually) but still arm the security system, so I feel this is more of a “backup” just in case one forgets to rather than a mission critical thing. Commercial use - strike to ELK relay to the M1 board, it’s not a zone. The door sensor is the zone.

[MWareman]

In my case, if I arm the Elk and one of my two zwave locks is unlocked - I send a ‘Lock’ command (rather than prevent to Elk from arming, or issuing a disarm). If the lock gets stuck - I send a high priority Pushover message to let me know. Works well enough for me - though I’d love to add the lock strike switch at some point...

[jeffreycowart]

Great feedback, thank you.

I was hung up on having the lock behave like a zone to prevent arming, that I overlooked an obvious solution suggested by MWareman, just send the lock signal during arming.

I can also have a followup program that confirms it is locked shortly after arming.

I also like this, because if it prevented arming, I would have to walk to that location to lock it (or open an app).  This way, it just goes ahead and locks it during arming.

 

Thanks again.

Jeff