PJH Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 I just updated to 5.0.13D and all existing devices are working well. However, I tried to add the 2844-222 motion sensor and I still get the error that no insteon engine is found. I tried it with both the sensor pull down menu and the insteon device install menu with the same results. I then tried to add another device I just got, a 2474DWH and I got the same error message. I confirmed that I am at the 5.0.13D level. Is there a possible error in the install. Did I not complete something or do I need to reset something. Is this a problem with RF only devices. I have many dual devices around these devices so I don't think they are communication issues. Any help or advice would be appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Techman Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 "Cannot determine Insteon engine" indicates a communications problem between the device and the PLM. In the case of a RF only device, the device is out of RF range of a dual band device. Try moving the motion sensor closer to the PLM and then try to link it to the ISY. The 2474 is also a RF only device, try plugging in a dual band module such as a range extender, lamplinc, or an on./off module close to the switch then try linking it to the ISY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larryllix Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 Welcome to the UDI forums!!! In addition to Techman's advice above, move the devices away from, and off the circuit of possible electrical noise makers like power supplies and electronics, cheap LED and CFL bulbs. Once it links you can use the link reliability to sleuth down the bad spots later, then decide what you need to do about them to improve your system. And for Gawd sakes, make sure your factory reset every Insteon device before trying to link them to your ISY. They can come crazy!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJH Posted December 18, 2018 Author Share Posted December 18, 2018 Thanks Techman and larryllix, The 2474 is in the room along with a dual band on/off module and a dual band lamp module so communications should not be an issue. I will try the factory reset on the 2474. The 2844-222 is away from the nearest module so I will add a dual band lamp module nearby and try again. Wish me luck and I will report if I have success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJH Posted December 26, 2018 Author Share Posted December 26, 2018 Ok guys, I got a lamp module closer to the 2844-222 motion sensor and it saw the unit and installed it correctly. Both of them installed just fine. Thanks for the pointers. However, the 2474DWH still can not be configured. I installed a second one and the same results. I still get errors about not being able to determine the correct insteon engine. There are some other errors that are displayed but they are too fast to read and record and the error about the insteon engine plops right over the other error messages. This may or may not be related, but, my ISY Portal is also acting up since the upgrade to 5.0.13. All seems to work except loading my devices and scenes to control them from the portal on my phone. I thought it was on my phone only but I noticed it also would also not display my devices and scenes on my desktop so the problem is more basic. After probing around, not trying to change anything, the scenes could be accessed but still not the devices. What the !!???XXX!!!/// Any ideas or thoughts on that one as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian H Posted December 26, 2018 Share Posted December 26, 2018 The 2474DWH is a Insteon RF only two wire dimmer wall switch. Make sure you have a Dual Band Module close enough to it. To relay Insteon RF commands to and from it. The FCC internal photos of it show the antenna at the back of the switches body. So if it is in metal electrical box. It RF range may not be as good as a plastic box and it maybe directional. What type of bulb is it being used with? It is designed for Incandescent loads. Other types of bulbs like dimmable LED may not work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilyoyo1 Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 Try factory resetting the devices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJH Posted January 1, 2019 Author Share Posted January 1, 2019 OK, temporarily giving up on the 2474DWH. It is being used with LED bulbs but the switch is mostly working, the bulbs are dimly lit when off. I expected this and working on a technical solution on my own. I cant just get it setup on the UDI. I have switched gears because I have a bigger problem. When I go to view/control my devices using the admin console portal at https://my.isy.io/index.htm it sits there with no activity or screen display, just highlights "devices". My "scenes" does respond but when I try to control the scenes after they come up the results appear scrambled. I cleared the java cashe and reinstalled the Admin Console. It still does not work. Did something go wrong when I upgraded to 5.0.13?? Any thoughts. It does this on my windows desktop and my android phone both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilyoyo1 Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 The 2474 was designed for incandescent loads which may be part of the problem. It may not be getting enough juice for it to function properly. Temporarily disabled your anti virus and try to log in. Sometimes antivirus software can interfere with logging in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJH Posted June 17, 2019 Author Share Posted June 17, 2019 I am using a 2474DWH module with LED lights using a bypass resistor from AEOTEC from amazon. That part works great. the LED lights now turn off completely. My problem is that I can not get the UDI module to "search" long enough for me to get to the dimmer and send a signal. The UDI software only is looking for about 2 seconds before it times out and the dimmer only sends a single pulse once when the set button is pushed. . I know the dimmer works because it was easily connected to a 2844-222 motion sensor and it turns on/off just fine using that. Is there anyway to get the UDI software to "look" for a signal for a longer period of time. I am by myself so I can not be in two places at the same time. As it sets right now I essentially have to start the UDI software to search and push the set button on the dimmer at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplextech Posted June 17, 2019 Share Posted June 17, 2019 You can add the dimmer to the ISY from the Admin Console with the address of the device. There is no need to go and press the set button as this is a powered device. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJH Posted June 17, 2019 Author Share Posted June 17, 2019 I tried that. It is a powered rf only device. Adding it requires that it be able to find it and that only works for the dual mode devices, not rf only devices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilyoyo1 Posted June 17, 2019 Share Posted June 17, 2019 The isy shouldn't be timing it that fast. There's something else going on. If you choose start linking then the dialogue box will stay up unless you hit ok right afterwards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJH Posted June 17, 2019 Author Share Posted June 17, 2019 I dont know what you are calling the fiddle box but after i enter all the info and hit the search button it comes back in 2 seconds with the "no engine found" error. With all the other dual mode devices it finds them and installs them. For the rf devices, unless i hit the set button it will error out. The motion sensor was exactly the same way but i could bring those up to the computer and pressed the set button within the short time limit and they installed. In order for the dimmer to be powered it has to be installed so no options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbuss Posted June 17, 2019 Share Posted June 17, 2019 In the case of battery powered rf devices, they do need to be put in linking mode for your ISY to find them. Your 2474DWH has power to it all the time and does not need to be put in linking mode.The ISY will find it just like it finds dual-band devices. I've added many 2474DWH to my systems this way. As @lilyoyo stated, it sure seems like you have something else going on. How did you link the 2474DWH and 2844-222 motion sensor? Are your firmware and UI the same versions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJH Posted June 17, 2019 Author Share Posted June 17, 2019 When i updated to 5.0.13 everything was fine per the tech support people at udi that helped me. No changes have been made. For the linking to the sensor, it was a test where i set the sensor to include a new device to turn on and hit the set button on the dimmer and it was included. If i am having a problem because you say it should find the dimmer if it is powered then how do i figure it out and fix it. I was just assuming that rf devices were that way because all of the rf only devices that i have set up were that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplextech Posted June 17, 2019 Share Posted June 17, 2019 Adding RF devices and adding Powered devices are different animals and processes. RF does have to be put into include mode then added whereas powered devices are always on so they can be included anytime. FYI when using the ISY to manage devices it's a bad practice to link devices directly (sensor to switch) as the ISY has no knowledge of those links and you lose the ability to manage those links from the ISY. Instead use the ISY to create the scene and the links for those devices. You will still have to put the RF device into linking mode when creating the scene in the ISY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilyoyo1 Posted June 17, 2019 Share Posted June 17, 2019 1 hour ago, PJH said: I dont know what you are calling the fiddle box but after i enter all the info and hit the search button it comes back in 2 seconds with the "no engine found" error. With all the other dual mode devices it finds them and installs them. For the rf devices, unless i hit the set button it will error out. The motion sensor was exactly the same way but i could bring those up to the computer and pressed the set button within the short time limit and they installed. In order for the dimmer to be powered it has to be installed so no options. It should have been dialogue box. Only battery powered devices need to be put into linking mode first. I would factory reset your device then try re-adding it. You can also try factory resetting the device then adding it once done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJH Posted June 17, 2019 Author Share Posted June 17, 2019 Already done that. It made no difference. I have been fussing with this for months trying everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Techman Posted June 17, 2019 Share Posted June 17, 2019 1 hour ago, PJH said: Already done that. It made no difference. I have been fussing with this for months trying everything. If your problem is with the 2474DWH, then take out the LED bulb and replace it with an incandescent bulb for testing purposes. If that resolves your issue then the resistor you have in the circuit is not the answer. The 2474DWH requires a certain amount of current and voltage in order to power the RF circuits, it possible that's where your problem is. RF only devices also require that a dual band device be in close proximity in order to relay the RF signal to the ISY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJH Posted June 17, 2019 Author Share Posted June 17, 2019 Well OK, I will try that. I will have to go out and buy some incandescent bulbs. I have been LED only for over 2 years. As far as the voltage and current is required, it does work 100% reliably with the motion sensor turning it on and off. Is that enough to prove that it functions or might the ISY demand a larger signal. Just asking. Don't know. I had not thought that way before, interesting. It also has multiple dual band devices within a couple of feet of it. I will let you know as soon as I try the incandescent bulbs in the next day or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Techman Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 If you have multiple led bulbs running off of the switch you only need one incandescent bulb in the circuit for the test. The other possibility is that the switch has some bad links. You can try doing a restore device on the switch. If the restore fails then either the switch isn't getting the voltage it needs to operate properly or the switch is failing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJH Posted June 18, 2019 Author Share Posted June 18, 2019 Oh Boy. Do I Feel dumb. I was always setting things up as a New Insteon Device and I was always getting the no insteon engine found error. then I saw the pull down menu also had a link command. I tried that and it found the 2474DWH and set it up. It works great now. I did have to push the set button to get it to be found (or it found it while I was down pushing the button) but it WORKS. IT WORKS. Thanks for your help and advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Techman Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 If the switch was properly powered up the "New Insteon Device" method of installation should work without having to put the device into linking mode. The only time you need to manually put a device into linking mode is if it's a battery operated device. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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