iannecj Posted January 11, 2019 Posted January 11, 2019 (edited) Friends, I have a plug in module controlling a specialty lighting setup in my home theater that's very high power. Because of that I only want it on for short periods. No programs use it. The only means I have built to control the lights is a google home command for on and off via portal. In this log snippet (which is all entries between where I started excerpt and the last entry) you can see us turn them off via voice command at 923 or so. That entry is labeled "web". But then later there is a system status line that says lights are on at around 12:09am after we have gone to bed. There are no command actions in between right? Friends can you give me ideas on what could cause this? Any idea what could be causing this turn on? Scene:MstrClosetLites On Thu 2019/01/10 09:11:42 PM Program Log Grge 2 Lite On 255 Thu 2019/01/10 09:12:25 PM ELK Log Grge 2 Lite Status 100% Thu 2019/01/10 09:12:26 PM System Log mstrclosetsmotion-Sensor Status 0% Thu 2019/01/10 09:21:41 PM System Log Home Theater Lighting Off Thu 2019/01/10 09:23:01 PM Web Log Home Theater Lighting Status 0% Thu 2019/01/10 09:23:01 PM System Log Grge 2 Lite Off 0 Thu 2019/01/10 09:27:32 PM ELK Log Grge 2 Lite Status 0% Thu 2019/01/10 09:27:32 PM System Log Scene:MstrClosetLites Off 0 Thu 2019/01/10 09:29:41 PM Program Log Mstr Clt I Side Status 0% Thu 2019/01/10 09:29:41 PM System Log Mstr Clt C Back Status 0% Thu 2019/01/10 09:29:41 PM System Log Mstr Clt C Side Status 0% Thu 2019/01/10 09:29:41 PM System Log Mstr Clt I Bck Status 0% Thu 2019/01/10 09:29:41 PM System Log MstrClstOvrHeadDim Status 0% Thu 2019/01/10 09:29:41 PM System Log Grge 2 Lite On 255 Thu 2019/01/10 09:31:48 PM ELK Log Grge 2 Lite Status 100% Thu 2019/01/10 09:31:49 PM System Log Grge 2 Lite Off 0 Thu 2019/01/10 09:46:56 PM ELK Log Grge 2 Lite Status 0% Thu 2019/01/10 09:46:56 PM System Log Home Theater Lighting Status 100% Fri 2019/01/11 12:09:31 AM System Log Edited January 11, 2019 by iannecj
kclenden Posted January 12, 2019 Posted January 12, 2019 I don't believe that the log actually shows command actions, but merely status changes. There's clearly no Web line associated with the 12:09 status line, but depending on what kind of plug in module you have there are other things that could cause it to come on that wouldn't appear in the log. Is the module Insteon? Z-wave? X-10?
iannecj Posted January 12, 2019 Author Posted January 12, 2019 (edited) 7 hours ago, kclenden said: I don't believe that the log actually shows command actions, but merely status changes. There's clearly no Web line associated with the 12:09 status line, but depending on what kind of plug in module you have there are other things that could cause it to come on that wouldn't appear in the log. Is the module Insteon? Z-wave? X-10? Thanks for helping me with this! Insteon 2635-222 purchased Nov 2018 Also, I thought entries labeled status was status change but there are other long entties that lookewd like commands to me. for example when I manually command things on and off. Edited January 12, 2019 by iannecj
oberkc Posted January 12, 2019 Posted January 12, 2019 Do you know for sure that they actually came on? I understand that there are no programs with this device but, by chance, did any programs run at (or about) 12:09:31AM?
larryllix Posted January 12, 2019 Posted January 12, 2019 17 minutes ago, oberkc said: Do you know for sure that they actually came on? I understand that there are no programs with this device but, by chance, did any programs run at (or about) 12:09:31AM? @iannecj In the admin console under the Program Detail tb you can right click on any program in the tree and select a find and replace tool. Using the name of your device, you can find every program that references this device.
iannecj Posted January 12, 2019 Author Posted January 12, 2019 1 hour ago, oberkc said: Do you know for sure that they actually came on? I understand that there are no programs with this device but, by chance, did any programs run at (or about) 12:09:31AM? Yes I do know they came on as when I went into room several hours later I saw them on. Also I do have one program that references this device. It emails me when they have status on.
iannecj Posted January 12, 2019 Author Posted January 12, 2019 1 hour ago, larryllix said: @iannecj In the admin console under the Program Detail tb you can right click on any program in the tree and select a find and replace tool. Using the name of your device, you can find every program that references this device. Thanks did this and no programs save the one I put up in earlier post reference this device.
iannecj Posted January 12, 2019 Author Posted January 12, 2019 By the way, when I compared ISY links to this devices links there were 3 rows....the middle one MIScompared. As such I restored the device and then compared links again to ensure no miscompare. I am starting to wonder if this new device which has never been linked with nother device has some problem.
larryllix Posted January 12, 2019 Posted January 12, 2019 (edited) 6 hours ago, iannecj said: By the way, when I compared ISY links to this devices links there were 3 rows....the middle one MIScompared. As such I restored the device and then compared links again to ensure no miscompare. I am starting to wonder if this new device which has never been linked with nother device has some problem. I wondered about that also. Do you have any scene links to it? All Insteon devices from the factory need to be factory reset before linking to ISY.They can contain X10 links and firmware that does crazy things. It's easy and after factory reseting the device you just click "restore" in the admin console to put all the links back into it. Takes about -2 minutes. Edited January 13, 2019 by larryllix typos
iannecj Posted January 12, 2019 Author Posted January 12, 2019 3 minutes ago, larryllix said: I wondered bou that also. All Insteon devices from the factory need to be factory reset before linking to ISY.They can contain X10 links and firmware that does crazy things. It's easy and fter factory reseting the device you just click "restore" in the admin console to put all the links back into it. Takes about -2 minutes. Ok Thanks for this...I'll do that now and then see if behavior stops. Been doing in once 2 twice so should be able to tell pretty soon.
kclenden Posted January 13, 2019 Posted January 13, 2019 15 hours ago, iannecj said: Insteon 2635-222 purchased Nov 2018 Based on the model # and date purchased I think we can rule out a couple things: Spurious X-10 commands since this plug-in module does not support X10 Spurious local load changes since this plug-in module does not support load sensing Spurious All-On commands since this is a newer plug-in module and presumably doesn't support the All-On command That would leave a couple other things to consider: Corrupted link table - factory resetting and restoring the device should fix this. Activation by other programs - your search should have found any other programs. If you used "Your Devices" and selected the device when you did your search, you might try changing to "Raw Text" and typing just a portion of the device name, say "Theater", then click "Find". But keep in mind that "Raw Text" searching is case sensitive. I seem to recall some reports that searching by "Your Devices" didn't always find every instance. Accidental inclusion in a scene - you didn't specifically answer larryllix about whether the device was included in any scenes, but the fact that there were only three lines in the device link table seems to confirm it's not in a scene. Just to be sure you should select the device and look at its memberships. Local activation - is there any way something could occasionally bump the ON switch? Maybe a curious pet? Hardware issue - a defective ON button could cause spurious local ON commands
larryllix Posted January 13, 2019 Posted January 13, 2019 (edited) These two lines included, indicate your ISY sent an off command to the device and then ISY logged the status change sent back from it. Something is missing in the troubleshooting/search. Either there is an inclusion in some program or the device was operated manually from ISY. The last status update seems to indicate local activation since no report of ISY sending the On was above the 100% status line. Home Theater Lighting Off Thu 2019/01/10 09:23:01 PM Web Log Home Theater Lighting Status 0% Thu 2019/01/10 09:23:01 PM System Log Edited January 13, 2019 by larryllix
iannecj Posted January 13, 2019 Author Posted January 13, 2019 5 hours ago, kclenden said: Based on the model # and date purchased I think we can rule out a couple things: Spurious X-10 commands since this plug-in module does not support X10 Spurious local load changes since this plug-in module does not support load sensing Spurious All-On commands since this is a newer plug-in module and presumably doesn't support the All-On command That would leave a couple other things to consider: Corrupted link table - factory resetting and restoring the device should fix this. Activation by other programs - your search should have found any other programs. If you used "Your Devices" and selected the device when you did your search, you might try changing to "Raw Text" and typing just a portion of the device name, say "Theater", then click "Find". But keep in mind that "Raw Text" searching is case sensitive. I seem to recall some reports that searching by "Your Devices" didn't always find every instance. Accidental inclusion in a scene - you didn't specifically answer larryllix about whether the device was included in any scenes, but the fact that there were only three lines in the device link table seems to confirm it's not in a scene. Just to be sure you should select the device and look at its memberships. Local activation - is there any way something could occasionally bump the ON switch? Maybe a curious pet? Hardware issue - a defective ON button could cause spurious local ON commands Thanks for this great input! I can report no spurious ONs overnight. 1st night in a while. Maybe factory reset or the restore helped? On the list above... I forgot about load sensing. Tested on unit and can confirm it doesn't respond to load ON/OFF but for a second I thought uh oh! Did Raw Text Search as recommneded. Only the email on Home Theater Lights Turn On program was found and no scene uses it. Memberships are blank. The plug in module is on a power strip in a wall alcove behind a roll out AV Rack. At first reading this list I wonderred about this so I checked nearby cables....None could come in contact with on switch or the unit at all even if rack rolled back in (but it hasnt been in since I was testing AV equipment this week and wanted to leave it out if I needed to change something). Question on your 1st item....corrupted link table....can a good unit have this issue? Uh Oh!!! Just did a Show Device Links again....MISCOMPARE is BACK!!!! Since I saw that miscompare when I first posted and restored and factory reset do I already know I have bad unit or is this normal? I have another 2635-222 and just checked it. It also miscompares. Both unit have a google home voice command associated with them. The other is on my shopvac. It never comes on spuriosly...Id know its loud.
iannecj Posted January 13, 2019 Author Posted January 13, 2019 3 hours ago, larryllix said: These two lines included, indicate your ISY sent an off command to the device and then ISY logged the status change sent back from it. Something is missing in the troubleshooting/search. Either there is an inclusion in some program or the device was operated manually from ISY. The last status update seems to indicate local activation since no report of ISY sending the On was above the 100% status line. Home Theater Lighting Off Thu 2019/01/10 09:23:01 PM Web Log Home Theater Lighting Status 0% Thu 2019/01/10 09:23:01 PM System Log Not sure how larryllix on either. See my post just now on links table...normal?
iannecj Posted January 13, 2019 Author Posted January 13, 2019 1 hour ago, iannecj said: Thanks for this great input! I can report no spurious ONs overnight. 1st night in a while. Maybe factory reset or the restore helped? On the list above... I forgot about load sensing. Tested on unit and can confirm it doesn't respond to load ON/OFF but for a second I thought uh oh! Did Raw Text Search as recommneded. Only the email on Home Theater Lights Turn On program was found and no scene uses it. Memberships are blank. The plug in module is on a power strip in a wall alcove behind a roll out AV Rack. At first reading this list I wonderred about this so I checked nearby cables....None could come in contact with on switch or the unit at all even if rack rolled back in (but it hasnt been in since I was testing AV equipment this week and wanted to leave it out if I needed to change something). Question on your 1st item....corrupted link table....can a good unit have this issue? Uh Oh!!! Just did a Show Device Links again....MISCOMPARE is BACK!!!! Since I saw that miscompare when I first posted and restored and factory reset do I already know I have bad unit or is this normal? I have another 2635-222 and just checked it. It also miscompares. Both unit have a google home voice command associated with them. The other is on my shopvac. It never comes on spuriosly...Id know its loud. I now see in this forum post this is normal: 1 hour ago, iannecj said:
larryllix Posted January 13, 2019 Posted January 13, 2019 8 hours ago, iannecj said: I now see in this forum post this is normal: Yes. That bit changes for some internal flag. I heard an explanation once and it happens all the time. When I see it I do a restore and correct it but, unlike my usual behaviour, I haven't bothered to study the Insteon protocol bit mapping. It is not likely to be a problem like yours. You need to factory rest your devices. Every one of them and I haven't heard any reports from you doing that. We still haven't seen what the following line from your post was either. Oberkc asked about your program timing report. That information will be buried now. I had an OnOff plug-in module sending out a scene on erroneously instead of an ACK, in response to just turning it on, once. Drove me nuts for months but I finally resolved it wasn't my programs as I recognised the multi-light pattern as one of my scenes. I simple unplug/plug back in resolved it and it hasn't done it for the last two years again. These devices contain CPU and firmware programs running and just get messed up every so often from grid spikes and who knows what-else. You'll get there.
iannecj Posted January 13, 2019 Author Posted January 13, 2019 58 minutes ago, larryllix said: Yes. That bit changes for some internal flag. I heard an explanation once and it happens all the time. When I see it I do a restore and correct it but, unlike my usual behaviour, I haven't bothered to study the Insteon protocol bit mapping. It is not likely to be a problem like yours. You need to factory rest your devices. Every one of them and I haven't heard any reports from you doing that. We still haven't seen what the following line from your post was either. Oberkc asked about your program timing report. That information will be buried now. I had an OnOff plug-in module sending out a scene on erroneously instead of an ACK, in response to just turning it on, once. Drove me nuts for months but I finally resolved it wasn't my programs as I recognised the multi-light pattern as one of my scenes. I simple unplug/plug back in resolved it and it hasn't done it for the last two years again. These devices contain CPU and firmware programs running and just get messed up every so often from grid spikes and who knows what-else. You'll get there. Thanks guys...will reset other devices and if I get spurious on again I will look to see if any other programs ran at that time.
kclenden Posted January 14, 2019 Posted January 14, 2019 (edited) As you found via your searching, the changed value in the device links table is because there are two bits that the device manages on its own to account for communication errors that it perceives. The ISY isn't informed about these changes so its copy of the link table remains as it was from the beginning. Since UD commented in the thread to which you linked, they may be filtering those bits out in V5, (I'm assuming you're on V4 since your screenshot are a little different than my screen) but I wasn't able to confirm that since I couldn't find any of my devices with a Controller record that had been changed in its link table. I did find some devices that had an extra record in the device link table but they were always for Responder records and changed "no clean-ups" to "Broadcast for a cleanup". They also changed a byte in the device link record that the developer documentation says is ignored, so I'm guessing they may be a later change to firmware that Smarthome hasn't documented to the public. As larryllix says, Insteon devices essentially contain mini CPUs and memory so it is possible for them to get corrupted via voltage spikes or line noise. Additionally, I'm led to believe that Smarthome does testing before devices leave the factory and sometimes the device doesn't get reinitialized correctly. So I always do a factory reset immediately after installing a new device. Learned that one the hard way. Edited January 14, 2019 by kclenden 2
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