ABLE1 Posted February 10, 2019 Posted February 10, 2019 (edited) Hello all, SOooooo I thought this was going to be simple programming project, but.................... I have researched this issue as far as I can, but I am not seeing what is missing. I have installed 5 each Togglelinc's for some outside light Sconces around an customers house. Installed a ISY and PLM and linked all switches through the Admin Console. Easy!! Then I created a Scene and called in Sconces. Attached the Switches to the Scene. Then wrote a program to have the lights come on at 30% at Sunset every day and off at 11pm. Then wrote a program to respond to a X10 signal A5 that is triggered by a driveway sensor to turn on the lights to 100% for 10 minutes and then return to 30%. Then wrote a program to have the lights off at 11pm to Sunrise the next day except when the X10 A5 is triggered to then put the lights at 100% for 10 minutes and then shut off. ============================================================================= My Programs - [ID 0001][Parent 0000] Folder Conditions for 'My Programs' If - No Conditions - (To add one, press 'Schedule' or 'Condition') Then Allow the programs in this folder to run. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- After 11pm - [ID 0002][Parent 0001] If From 11:00:10PM To Sunrise (next day) Then Set 'Sconce Lights' Off Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- After 11pm x10 - [ID 0004][Parent 0001] If From 11:00:10PM To Sunrise (next day) And X10 'A5/On (3)' is Received Then Set 'Sconce Lights' On 100% Wait 10 minutes Set 'Sconce Lights' Off Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Turn On At Sunset - [ID 0005][Parent 0001] If From Sunset To 11:00:00PM (same day) Then Set 'Sconce Lights' On 30% Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Turn on From X10 - [ID 0003][Parent 0001] If From Sunset To 11:00:00PM (same day) And X10 'A5/On (3)' is Received Then Set 'Sconce Lights' On 100% Wait 10 minutes Set 'Sconce Lights' On 30% Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') =============================================================== What is not happening is the X10 A5 to 100% Simple question, what am I missing or do I need to adjust?? Thanks for any hints. Les Edited February 11, 2019 by ABLE1
paulbates Posted February 10, 2019 Posted February 10, 2019 (edited) Assuming this is the eagle eye / ms16a motion detector? Given my experience with X10 RF, the problem is usually there somewhere: Are you able to watch the ISY event viewer, while having someone trip the hawkeye in its installed position and see the A5 / On entry? I would look at the positioning of the X10 RF transceiver you're using to get the X10 RF on to the powerline. That can be tricky because most of them need to be close to the hawkeye, but also in a good position on the powerline so that the PLM can communicate with it. Paul Edited February 10, 2019 by paulbates
ABLE1 Posted February 10, 2019 Author Posted February 10, 2019 11 minutes ago, paulbates said: Assuming this is the eagle eye / ms16a motion detector? Given my experience with X10 RF, the problem is usually there somewhere: Are you able to watch the ISY event viewer, while having someone trip the hawkeye in its installed position and see the A5 / On entry? I would look at the positioning of the X10 RF transceiver you're using to get the X10 RF on to the powerline. That can be tricky because most of them need to be close to the hawkeye, but also in a good position on the powerline so that the PLM can communicate with it. Paul Paul, Thanks for the response but, sorry, wrong assumption on your part. This is a Driveway sensor that triggers a X10 UM506 Universal Module that is being read by the PLM. The X10 A5 signal is being received, logged in history but is not being responded to as f or turning on the scene to 30% or 100% as desired. That is where the mystery is at. Thanks for any other thoughts. Les
hart2hart Posted February 10, 2019 Posted February 10, 2019 Just in case... Isn’t X10 an add on module to ISY? Is it enabled? Guessing yes if you can include it in a program.
paulbates Posted February 10, 2019 Posted February 10, 2019 (edited) Les The UM506 universal module is for controlling a device with contact closure when you send it an X10 HC/UC. The PF284 (PSC01) X10 Powerflash Interface is used to remotely detect contact closure and send an X10 HC/UC on the powerline (The ISY can communicate with X10 without the add on module. The add on module lets you name HC/UC combinations) Paul Edited February 10, 2019 by paulbates
paulbates Posted February 10, 2019 Posted February 10, 2019 Les For the programs that are not reading the sensor, I'd suggest taking out the from / to range. These 2 programs don't need that: Turn on at sunset: Have a program check for sunset only , turn on 30% After 11pm: Have program check for 11:10 pm only, turn off Paul 1
ABLE1 Posted February 10, 2019 Author Posted February 10, 2019 36 minutes ago, paulbates said: Les The UM506 universal module is for controlling a device with contact closure when you send it an X10 HC/UC. The PF284 (PSC01) X10 Powerflash Interface is used to remotely detect contact closure and send an X10 HC/UC on the powerline (The ISY can communicate with X10 without the add on module. The add on module lets you name HC/UC combinations) Paul Paul, Sorry you are right, I pulled the wrong part number off. My whoops. I am using a PSC01 that is responding to a contact closure from the driveway sensor board. Personally not sure what the HD/UC stands for but if it has to do with a X10 ON (3) signal then yes that is what I have in the program. The LOG shows that that being received as well as the OFF (11) OFF signal. As in: X10 A5 On (3) Sun 2019/02/10 12:06:48 PM System Log X10 A5 Sun 2019/02/10 12:06:51 PM System Log X10 A5 Off (11) Sun 2019/02/10 12:06:51 PM System Log X10 A5 Sun 2019/02/10 12:12:59 PM System Log X10 A5 On (3) Sun 2019/02/10 12:13:00 PM System Log X10 A5 Sun 2019/02/10 12:13:02 PM System Log X10 A5 Off (11) Sun 2019/02/10 12:13:03 PM System Log X10 A5 Sun 2019/02/10 12:18:25 PM System Log The issue is that the signal does not appear to change the lights that I can see. That is what I am missing. Thanks, Les
ABLE1 Posted February 10, 2019 Author Posted February 10, 2019 34 minutes ago, paulbates said: Les For the programs that are not reading the sensor, I'd suggest taking out the from / to range. These 2 programs don't need that: Turn on at sunset: Have a program check for sunset only , turn on 30% After 11pm: Have program check for 11:10 pm only, turn off Paul Paul, Ok, I can do it that way. I thought having the From and To was a more efficient way saying the same thing. I will give that a try. Thanks, Les
ABLE1 Posted February 10, 2019 Author Posted February 10, 2019 Hi Paul, I made the changes as you described. Will need to wait till sundown to see it it makes a difference. But, I do question what that change would have to do with the program reacting favorably to a X10 On(3) input?? Can you or somebody shed some light on that point?? Thanks, Always learning............................. Les
Breezyken Posted February 10, 2019 Posted February 10, 2019 I have several programs that are triggered by Insteon commands that then send an X10 command. This did not work well until I added a one second wait to the THEN section before issuing the X10 command. I may be way off, but I suspect there is interference between the Insteon and X10 power line signals. Simplified, it looks like this: If Control 'Car Remote.b' is switched on Then Wait 1 second Send X10 'A15/On (3)' I realize that your event sequence is different, but this could be an issue. Perhaps someone with more experience can comment on the timing, but it works for me.
kclenden Posted February 10, 2019 Posted February 10, 2019 Scenes do not respond to %'s. If you tell a scene to come on at 30% or 100%, the same thing happens - the scene comes on to whatever level it was defined. So if you turn a scene on at 30% and then later turn it on at 100%, you won't see any difference. You can setup a scene with the sconces set to come on at 30% and then setup another scene with the sconces setup to come on at 100% - then turn on the 30% scene followed later by turning on the 100% scene. Then you'll see a difference. Paulbates had you change the conditions in your two programs not because they would help the X10 issue, but because the time range was superfluous. The end of the time range does nothing. If you want programming efficiency, then make use of the ELSE clause for your OFF command like: If From Sunset To 11:00:10PM (same day) Then Set 'Sconce Lights' On Else Set 'Sconce Lights' Off That program would replace your two programs. 1
paulbates Posted February 10, 2019 Posted February 10, 2019 6 minutes ago, Breezyken said: I have several programs that are triggered by Insteon commands that then send an X10 command. This did not work well until I added a one second wait to the THEN section before issuing the X10 command. I may be way off, but I suspect there is interference between the Insteon and X10 power line signals. Simplified, it looks like this: If Control 'Car Remote.b' is switched on Then Wait 1 second Send X10 'A15/On (3)' I realize that your event sequence is different, but this could be an issue. Perhaps someone with more experience can comment on the timing, but it works for me. This spacing is sometimes needed because X10 and Insteon share a very close powerline frequency for signaling which interferes with each other. When Car Remote.b is sent, there is likely an Insteon acknowledgement(s) sent in response. The ISY doesn't know this and will send the X10 A15 right away and it will collide with the Insteon acknowledgement (or Insteon re-stransmissions). X10 does not have message resilience built in, so the send A15 is "stepped on". The Wait command accounts for that in this case, the OP has a program waiting for an inbound X10 signal. There'll be no related Insteon traffic at that time Paul 2
Breezyken Posted February 11, 2019 Posted February 11, 2019 Thanks for confirming my suspicions, and I did realize the OP had a different scenario. Ken
ABLE1 Posted February 11, 2019 Author Posted February 11, 2019 Ok Guys, I have read and sifted through the input. Some I get and some I put the side. I have made changes to the programs and will have to wait a while to see what happens. I am quite sure something needs changed or modified. Again Thanks for any input. Les The programs are now as follows. My Programs - [ID 0001][Parent 0000] Folder Conditions for 'My Programs' If - No Conditions - (To add one, press 'Schedule' or 'Condition') Then Allow the programs in this folder to run. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Turn On At Sunset - [ID 0005][Parent 0001] If Time is Sunset Then Set '2C.36.AB.1 Laundry Door' On 30% Set '4D.76.8D.1 Front Door' On 30% Set '4D.76.97.1 Mud Room Door' On 30% Set '4D.76.AA.1 Tony Rear Door' On 30% Set '4D.77.36.1 Tony Garage Front' On 30% Else Turn On From X10 - [ID 0002][Parent 0001] If Time is Sunset And X10 'A5/On (3)' is Received Then Set '2C.36.AB.1 Laundry Door' On 100% Set '4D.76.8D.1 Front Door' On 100% Set '4D.76.97.1 Mud Room Door' On 100% Set '4D.76.AA.1 Tony Rear Door' On 100% Set '4D.77.36.1 Tony Garage Front' On 100% Wait 10 minutes Set '2C.36.AB.1 Laundry Door' On 30% Set '4D.76.8D.1 Front Door' On 30% Set '4D.76.97.1 Mud Room Door' On 30% Set '4D.76.AA.1 Tony Rear Door' On 30% Set '4D.77.36.1 Tony Garage Front' On 30% Else Set 'Sconce Lights' Off --------------------------------------------------------------------------- After 11pm x10 - [ID 0004][Parent 0001] If From 11:00:10PM To Sunrise (next day) And X10 'A5/On (3)' is Received Then Set '2C.36.AB.1 Laundry Door' On 100% Set '4D.76.8D.1 Front Door' On 100% Set '4D.76.97.1 Mud Room Door' On 100% Set '4D.76.AA.1 Tony Rear Door' On 100% Set '4D.77.36.1 Tony Garage Front' On 100% Wait 10 minutes Set 'Sconce Lights' Off Else Set 'Sconce Lights' Off ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Turn Off at 11PM - [ID 0006][Parent 0001] If Time is 11:00:00PM Then Set '2C.36.AB.1 Laundry Door' Off Set '4D.76.8D.1 Front Door' Off Set '4D.76.97.1 Mud Room Door' Off Set '4D.76.AA.1 Tony Rear Door' Off Set '4D.77.36.1 Tony Garage Front' Off Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')
larryllix Posted February 11, 2019 Posted February 11, 2019 This compound logic will never be true as two events are never true at the same time.While ISY is processing one the other will not be being processed and false. Time is Sunset And X10 'A5/On (3)' is Received Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk
Sub-Routine Posted February 11, 2019 Posted February 11, 2019 5 minutes ago, larryllix said: This compound logic will never be true as two events are never true at the same time. While ISY is processing one the other will not be being processed and false. Time is Sunset And X10 'A5/On (3)' is Received Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk You would want to use, for example, If From Sunset To Sunrise And X10 'A5/On (3)' is Received Also, it would be better to use scenes for turning on/off/dimming groups of lights. That way only one Insteon command needs to be sent instead of several. The lights will all respond at once rather than in a sequence. Another advantage of scenes is that you can define Ramp Rates for the devices. Otherwise the devices use the last ramp rate they responded to. Which, for me, is 8 minutes when turning on/off my outside lights at sunset/sunrise. For instance a quick ramp up to 100%, and a slower ramp down to 30%. BTW, if you are using incandescent bulbs calling them on to less than 100%, say 85-90% can greatly extend their lives. Slower ramp rates also help. I have an outdoor flood I used to change at least twice a year. With the dimmer at 85% and longish ramp rates it now lasts 2-3 years.
kclenden Posted February 11, 2019 Posted February 11, 2019 I agree with both larryllix and sub-routine - you need the time range on your "Turn On From X10" program. It was only the two programs that didn't also include "X10 Received" in the IF that didn't need the time range. Also, sub-routine's comment about scenes will definitely make things look more coordinated. Simply create two scenes, maybe call them "Sconces at 30%" and "Sconces at 100%". Then drag all five switches into each scene and make them responders. Finally, select the 30% scenes and click each device in the scene table and set its ON level to 30%. Then do the same thing for the 100% scene, but obviously setting the ON level to 100%. Then in your programs you merely need to turn on the "Sconces at 30%" scene when you want the level to be 30% and turn on the "Sconces at 100%" when you want the level to be 100%. When you want the sconces to be off, you can turn off either the 30% or the 100% scene since they both contains the same devices.
larryllix Posted February 11, 2019 Posted February 11, 2019 《snipped》 Simply create two scenes, maybe call them "Sconces at 30%" and "Sconces at 100%". Then drag all five switches into each scene and make them responders. Finally, select the 30% scenes and click each device in the scene table and set its ON level to 30%. Then do the same thing for the 100% scene, but obviously setting the ON level to 100%. Then in your programs you merely need to turn on the "Sconces at 30%" scene when you want the level to be 30% and turn on the "Sconces at 100%" when you want the level to be 100%. When you want the sconces to be off, you can turn off either the 30% or the 100% scene since they both contains the same devices. I like to use a third scene, 'Sconces Off' but to use it you would turn it On causing all the lights to go off.Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk
kclenden Posted February 11, 2019 Posted February 11, 2019 1 hour ago, larryllix said: I like to use a third scene, 'Sconces Off' but to use it you would turn it On causing all the lights to go off. I'm curious why you would use a third scene? It wouldn't seem to get you anything that you didn't already have by simply turning one of the other two scenes off. But it would use up more links in the PLM table which has a limit of about 1000, IIRC, and we have seen people run out of room in that table. What benefit am I missing?
larryllix Posted February 11, 2019 Posted February 11, 2019 I'm curious why you would use a third scene? It wouldn't seem to get you anything that you didn't already have by simply turning one of the other two scenes off. But it would use up more links in the PLM table which has a limit of about 1000, IIRC, and we have seen people run out of room in that table. What benefit am I missing? Just uniformity. It's another lighting setting, sometimes in a list of 15 or 20 different scenes for a particular room. With ISY Portal I wouldn't have to go looking for which scene contained the off.More modular. I don't have to worry that changing some code will affect another program using the same scene and cause me hours of sleuthing why it stopped working.I don't worry about the 1000 scene limitation. My lighting is starting to weigh more heavily into nonInsteon lighting as colour becomes cheaper than plain white and I avoid scenes unless needed for speed or Insteon data storm avoidance.Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk 1
ABLE1 Posted February 11, 2019 Author Posted February 11, 2019 Hello all, I do appreciate all the extra insight and thoughts on how to use scenes or not use scenes, etc. However, my problem is trying to get the X10 On(3) signal to actually trigger a 100% lights ON So far that hasn't happened that I can see. In the Log it clearly records the X10 On(3) but the lights have yet to respond. So I have now set a program to do just one thing. And because I am not there I have to wait for someone to come in the driveway and see if the light comes on. X10 Test - [ID 0003][Parent 0001] If '4D.76.AA.1 Tony Rear Door' Status is Off And X10 'A5/On (3)' is Received Then Set '4D.76.AA.1 Tony Rear Door' On 100% Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') It would seem to me that this simple program should do as it is written. However, in the mean time, my question goes to the following. Are there condition or devices that will not respond as expected with X10 signals?? Or is it just a matter of getting the program written properly?? If the program above does NOT turn on the light then what is missing?? Needless to say if it does actually turn on the light then this is all somewhat moot. At this point it is just a wait and see. I will provide more input later once it happens .......... or not. Thanks, Les
Hurting2Ride Posted February 11, 2019 Posted February 11, 2019 First, you should be able to right click any program and choose "Run Then" or "Run Else" to make sure that part of the logic is working. Second, Turn On From X10 - [ID 0002][Parent 0001] If Time is Sunset And X10 'A5/On (3)' is Received That program will only trigger if the A5(on) command happens to come in EXACTLY at Sunset. It looks like that time frame should be between Sunset & Sunrise.
ABLE1 Posted February 11, 2019 Author Posted February 11, 2019 9 minutes ago, Hurting2Ride said: First, you should be able to right click any program and choose "Run Then" or "Run Else" to make sure that part of the logic is working. Second, Turn On From X10 - [ID 0002][Parent 0001] If Time is Sunset And X10 'A5/On (3)' is Received That program will only trigger if the A5(on) command happens to come in EXACTLY at Sunset. It looks like that time frame should be between Sunset & Sunrise. Hurting2Ride Please look at the loaded image. In the Add To Program area it states Time is After Sunset However, it the Program Line it states Time is Sunset. It does look like a contradiction but it is the Admin Console that is making it look that way. Besides I don't see a "between" selection or choice. It is either Before or After. That is UNLESS I am missing some other program pull down. Thanks, Les
Kush Posted February 11, 2019 Posted February 11, 2019 ABLE1 Use the drop down on Time is and change it to From to set a range. Kush
larryllix Posted February 11, 2019 Posted February 11, 2019 You are going to hate this one. When your Tony Rear Door program becomes true the status condition will become false after A5 turns on. Now your If will get re-evaluated to false and Else will run. There are special two program methods of isolating devices when used in the condition of a program that controls the same device. I am on a small screen so leave it to others to follow. Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk
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