ControLinc buttons as triggers as opposed to controllers?

[mdcastle]

I've been unable to create triggers from ControLinc buttons, and I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong. In the system I've planned, the bulk of the "fancy stuff" will be done from ControlLincs (and eventually X10 keychain remotes). In my plan the first couple of pairs of buttons (2 or 3 depending on the room) will be used for regular links, which I've used ISY to program with no problem. The last buttons will not be "paired" and will trigger scenes. For example button 1 On and Off will turn the table lamps on and off. Whereas Button 5 On will slowly ramp up the lights when I'm done watching TV, and Button 5 Off is the "ALL ON" button.

 

As a test I created an "ALL LIGHTS ON" scene with all my lighting devices as responders, and tried to have it triggered by the #5 Off button. I did both apply and save it. Here is what I have:

When Living Room ControLinc 5 is OFF --> Set ALL LIGHTS ON to on.

Tried pressing button 5 off and nothing happens... Tried creating triggers with different buttons on both ControlLincs and nothing happens

[Chris Jahn]

Are you using the new triggers/schedules that are in beta, or the current triggers and schedules?

 

If you are using the new triggers/schedules then please post your program here (right-click on the program name and 'Copy to Clipboard').

 

I've been unable to create triggers from ControLinc buttons, and I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong. In the system I've planned, the bulk of the "fancy stuff" will be done from ControlLincs (and eventually X10 keychain remotes). In my plan the first couple of pairs of buttons (2 or 3 depending on the room) will be used for regular links, which I've used ISY to program with no problem. The last buttons will not be "paired" and will trigger scenes. For example button 1 On and Off will turn the table lamps on and off. Whereas Button 5 On will slowly ramp up the lights when I'm done watching TV, and Button 5 Off is the "ALL ON" button.

 

As a test I created an "ALL LIGHTS ON" scene with all my lighting devices as responders, and tried to have it triggered by the #5 Off button. I did both apply and save it. Here is what I have:

When Living Room ControLinc 5 is OFF --> Set ALL LIGHTS ON to on.

Tried pressing button 5 off and nothing happens... Tried creating triggers with different buttons on both ControlLincs and nothing happens

[mdcastle]

current triggers and schedules. I dont think it's a communication issue with the ControLincs because devices with responder links from the ControLincs correctly show status on ISY. One thing I noticed though is if I select the ControLinc buttons in the main view only the first two show any status. I don't understand this concept anyway- why does a ControLinc have "status" since it is never really on or off itself, it just controls other things?

[Michel Kohanim]

mdcastle,

 

The reason that the ControLincs have status is precisely for triggering purposes.

 

If you click on your ControLinc buttons, do you see their status updated on ISY? Are you saying that only two of the buttons on ISY have their status updated?

 

Would you be kind enough to send us the program you are trying to run?

 

With kind regards,

Michel

 

current triggers and schedules. I dont think it's a communication issue with the ControLincs because devices with responder links from the ControLincs correctly show status on ISY. One thing I noticed though is if I select the ControLinc buttons in the main view only the first two show any status. I don't understand this concept anyway- why does a ControLinc have "status" since it is never really on or off itself, it just controls other things?

[mdcastle]

On each ControLinc, 1 button correctly reports status, 1 button always reports status of off, and 3 do not report. It is a different button that works on each ControLinc, and it is no correlation between whether or not it controls an X10 or Insteon device.

 

I'm trying to start with a simple trigger, say If Button 1 is off -->> set device Z to on. I got it to work only if:

1.) The controlling button is one that correctly reports status, and

2.) The status is previously on, and then i hit the off button. If the status is already off and I hit the off button nothing happens.

 

I tried plugging the ControLinc directly into the PLM, with no change in results. Same with restoring the buttons. Haven't tried a factory reset.

[Michel Kohanim]

mdcastle,

 

Thank you. You have identified the problem: ISY is not updated with the status of the button presses on your ControLinc. In normal cases, all buttons should report back their status to ISY. There are three cases when a ControLinc does not report back its status to ISY:

1. When linking the ControLinc, you chose the third option to "import existing links" and in the existing links there are conflicting information

2. The ControLinc button is assigned as an X10 button (some ControLincs only)

3. The PLM, for some reason, does not have the correct links to "listen" to ControLinc initiated messages

 

May I humbly suggest the following:

1. Factory Reset one of your ControLincs (this also removes X10 associations)

2. On Admin Console, please right mouse click on any one of the ControLinc buttons, and choose Restore Device

3. Please wait for the restore to complete and then check to see if the status of the buttons are updated

 

Furthermore, would you be kind enough to do Help->About and let us know ISY's firmware version.

 

Thanks and with kind regards,

Michel

 

On each ControLinc, 1 button correctly reports status, 1 button always reports status of off, and 3 do not report. It is a different button that works on each ControLinc, and it is no correlation between whether or not it controls an X10 or Insteon device.

 

I'm trying to start with a simple trigger, say If Button 1 is off -->> set device Z to on. I got it to work only if:

1.) The controlling button is one that correctly reports status, and

2.) The status is previously on, and then i hit the off button. If the status is already off and I hit the off button nothing happens.

 

I tried plugging the ControLinc directly into the PLM, with no change in results. Same with restoring the buttons. Haven't tried a factory reset.

[mdcastle]

Well I tried it. Only change is that the only button that correctly reported status doesn't anymore, now it says on regardless of what the last button push was, and doesn't control the scene that was previously programmed into it. ISY software version is 2.4

[Michel Kohanim]

mdcastle,

 

Thanks so very much for the status update. There's one more request which I'd appreciate your help with: would you be kind enough to do File->Restore Modem (PLM). This will let us know whether or not we are dealing with a known PLM bug for which we already have a work-around.

 

Also, would you be interested in our 2.4.11 (Beta 2.5)?

 

With kind regards,

Michel

 

 

 

Well I tried it. Only change is that the only button that correctly reported status doesn't anymore, now it says on regardless of what the last button push was, and doesn't control the scene that was previously programmed into it. ISY software version is 2.4

[mdcastle]

Well, restoring the PLM did not work. What did work was deleting the ControLincs and reimporting them. Now both ControLincs are correctly reporting status on all buttons.

 

Which brings me back to what I'm trying to do, in that I want to be able to trigger scene X by pressing button Y-OFF, and scene Z by pressing button Y-ON. Triggers using the off button only work if the previous "status" is on and I press off, not if the previous "status" is off and I press off. So

 

1.) Is this supposed to work and still is not?

2.) Is this something the new firmware version addresses?

3.) Are ControLincs+PLM+ISY simply not capable of doing this. To me this would be big step backwards, as my old X10 mini-controllers and ActiveHome software could do this. I had each of my mini-controllers so I could do on/off/dim on two lamps using the first two buttons, and trigger four scenes using the second two?

[Sub-Routine]

How can a ControLinc's button have a Status? AFAIK, they only send messages when pressed. They never stick On or Off.

 

I think you want to watch for a button press (If Control...). Then you will have six options to react to, On, Off, Fast On, Fast Off, Brighten, Dim. These options are available in the Beta release of v2.5.

 

Which brings me back to what I'm trying to do, in that I want to be able to trigger scene X by pressing button Y-OFF, and scene Z by pressing button Y-ON. Triggers using the off button only work if the previous "status" is on and I press off, not if the previous "status" is off and I press off. So

 

Again, I don't know how a ControLinc button can have a status, it has no load and cannot be switched in any manner other than manually pressing a button. To look for a Status you must query a device that has direct control of a load (SwitchLinc, InlineLinc, LampLinc, etc.).

 

Hope this helps,

Rand

[Mark Sanctuary]

Rand is right...

 

Controllers that have no load should only have a "Control" condition not "Status" condition.

 

Unless do they store a variable for a fake load?

[Michel Kohanim]

Rand,

 

As usual, I couldn't have said it better: ControLincs/RemoteLincs/Keypad Sub-buttons do not have status because they do not control a load. This said, however, ISY maintains the "previous" state of these buttons as if they had a load. Maybe we should get rid of these states but, especially in the case of keypadlink sub-buttons, these states indicate the status of the backlight.

 

mdcastle,

 

First of all, I am so glad you got everything working. As Rand suggested, you should use If Control ...

 

Please do let us know if you are still experiencing difficulties,

With kind regards,

Michel

 

 

 

How can a ControLinc's button have a Status? AFAIK, they only send messages when pressed. They never stick On or Off.

 

I think you want to watch for a button press (If Control...). Then you will have six options to react to, On, Off, Fast On, Fast Off, Brighten, Dim. These options are available in the Beta release of v2.5.

 

Which brings me back to what I'm trying to do, in that I want to be able to trigger scene X by pressing button Y-OFF, and scene Z by pressing button Y-ON. Triggers using the off button only work if the previous "status" is on and I press off, not if the previous "status" is off and I press off. So

 

Again, I don't know how a ControLinc button can have a status, it has no load and cannot be switched in any manner other than manually pressing a button. To look for a Status you must query a device that has direct control of a load (SwitchLinc, InlineLinc, LampLinc, etc.).

 

Hope this helps,

Rand

[Mark Sanctuary]

Ok fixed the logic...

 

Controllers that have no load and no status LED for its button should only have a "Control" condition not "Status" condition.

 

Unless someone can think of a good reason not to it would reduce confusion to have this fixed.

[Algorithm]

Ok fixed the logic...

 

Controllers that have no load and no status LED for its button should only have a "Control" condition not "Status" condition.

 

Unless someone can think of a good reason not to it would reduce confusion to have this fixed.

 

Well, if the status indicates the the last button press On or Off (kind of a simulated Load, as you commented), I imagine someone will find a way to make good use of that information. I don't see it as a bug.

[Michel Kohanim]

Mark,

 

I do not consider this a bug and thus I cannot consider the change a fix.

 

Furthermore, there are some ramifications with need more investigation:

a. If you want a trigger based on the "level" of a KPL/CL/RL button. i.e. you are dimming a scene to 40% using any of those buttons and you want the trigger to run only when you are below/above 40%. In short, the "logical" level of any one of those buttons closely (but not 100%) reflects the collective/average level of all the members of that scene

b. In most cases, the status of the KPL sub-buttons actually reflects whether or not the back-light for that button is on/off

 

There are other ramifications which are a little less important.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

 

Ok fixed the logic...

 

Controllers that have no load and no status LED for its button should only have a "Control" condition not "Status" condition.

 

Unless someone can think of a good reason not to it would reduce confusion to have this fixed.

[Sub-Routine]

I did not realize the ISY kept track of a scene's level. That is very exciting! I can imagine more than a few uses for that.

 

I don't see any Status in the Console when I select any CL, RL, or KPL button other than KPL button 1, but now I understand why the Is Managed By is in the local tree.

 

If we could see the Status, that would reduce the confusion.

 

Thank you,

Rand

[Mark Sanctuary]

Ok I am retracting my logic statement then. I also vote for seeing the stored status somehow in the GUI too.

 

[mdcastle]

So the "IF" control of the new version is functionally different from the "WHEN" control of the current version. And I will be able to do what I want in the new version but not the old version?

[Michel Kohanim]

mdcastle,

 

For what you want to accomplish, 2.5 Beta is much more flexible. I have already send you the instructions on the upgrade. Please do let me know how it goes.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

 

So the "IF" control of the new version is functionally different from the "WHEN" control of the current version. And I will be able to do what I want in the new version but not the old version?

[mdcastle]

I tried backing up the configuration, and now I can no longer get in to ISY. Clicking on "my lighting" brings up the first window, but nothing is clickable and I see the administration console button in the tray, but I can't click on that either. If I go to task manager and end the task I can get to the adminstration console screen, but it is does not have my devices and again nothing is clickable so I need to go to task manager to end it. Already tried restarting the computer and powering down ISY. ISY seems to be working fine internally as my timers still operate.

[MikeB]

Does it still bring up the username/password login?

 

If not, try clicking this link to fix it:

 

http://www.universal-devices.com/MyInsteonISY

[Michel Kohanim]

mdcastle,

 

Apologies for the inconvenience. As MikeB suggested, going to our Web URL (http;//www.universal-devices.com/MyInsteonISY) will fix the issue. The problem has to do with a bug in 2.4 where the state of the Admin Window is captured even though minimized. In all likelihood, you closed the Admin Console while minimized.

 

May I humbly suggest upgrading to 2.4.12?

 

With kind regards,

Michel

 

I tried backing up the configuration, and now I can no longer get in to ISY. Clicking on "my lighting" brings up the first window, but nothing is clickable and I see the administration console button in the tray, but I can't click on that either. If I go to task manager and end the task I can get to the adminstration console screen, but it is does not have my devices and again nothing is clickable so I need to go to task manager to end it. Already tried restarting the computer and powering down ISY. ISY seems to be working fine internally as my timers still operate.

[mdcastle]

Actually I was trying to upgrade it to the 2.4.12 when I crashed it. I had a bunch of windows open and I must have closed out of the admin console while minimized. At any rate the web fix worked and I got the beta installed without incident. Overall I like the new version, and although it's a beta it seems to be a lot more stable than 2.4 for me. I spent most of this evening playing with it without getting a request failed. And I did get the ControLinc buttons to do what I want them to. I like ControLincs as they're relatively cheap, stay where you put them, and don't use batteries.

[Michel Kohanim]

mdcastle,

 

I am so glad that your upgrade was installed without incidence. Please do not hesitate to contact us if you have any other questions/comments/concerns/suggestions.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

 

Actually I was trying to upgrade it to the 2.4.12 when I crashed it. I had a bunch of windows open and I must have closed out of the admin console while minimized. At any rate the web fix worked and I got the beta installed without incident. Overall I like the new version, and although it's a beta it seems to be a lot more stable than 2.4 for me. I spent most of this evening playing with it without getting a request failed. And I did get the ControLinc buttons to do what I want them to. I like ControLincs as they're relatively cheap, stay where you put them, and don't use batteries.

[Algorithm]

I think you want to watch for a button press (If Control...). Then you will have six options to react to, On, Off, Fast On, Fast Off, Brighten, Dim. These options are available in the Beta release of v2.5.

 

Did the Bright/Dim triggers get added to the beta, and then removed later on? I only have On/Off/FastOn/FastOff in the event box.