Couple o' zwave questions

[johnnyt]

I just started using a bit of zwave after upgrading a couple of months ago to latest 500-series hardware and 5.0 firmware after a decade or more of using ISY with Insteon (and pre-5.0 firmware). So far I have a couple different multi sensors, Aeotec and ZooZ - primarily for temp, humidity and luminance, an Aeotec multi color bulb, a HomeSeer floodlight motion sensor, and a couple of repeaters. Every device is reasonably close to one or the other repeater but the ISY itself is in the basement "server" room at one end of the house (I think I'm counting on the repeaters a lot)

I have a few questions that would help me better understand and better troubleshoot problems and/or quirks of zwave.

1. Is zwave slow in terms of ISY's ability to react? It does seem to be, especially the bulb right now. Maybe it's just the bulb although my understanding from a review of the Aeotec sensor I have and many other motion sensors tested indicates it can take 2-3 or more secs for motion to cause something to happen (worse with zigbee). The Zooz sensor I have was singled out as excellent at sub second.

2. On a scale of 1-5 how much does zwave and Insteon RF interfere with each other? 1= no to very little, 5= constantly and in every situation

3. do some/any/all zwave devices confirm/acknowledge their state after ISY sends a command? 

4. Can/will moving a zwave device after inclusion to a new location cause problems due to some hard coded mesh network paths established at inclusion, or for other reasons (other than out of range)?

Any info/advice would be appreciated.

 

[oberkc]

1.  I dont perceive zwave as being slow due to the ISY.

2.  None, or 1

3.  Unsure

4.  Yes, but it can be “healed”.

[simplextech]

1 hour ago, johnnyt said:

1. Is zwave slow in terms of ISY's ability to react? It does seem to be, especially the bulb right now. Maybe it's just the bulb although my understanding from a review of the Aeotec sensor I have and many other motion sensors tested indicates it can take 2-3 or more secs for motion to cause something to happen (worse with zigbee). The Zooz sensor I have was singled out as excellent at sub second.

I'm not sure where you're reading from.  Allow some corrections.  

Z-Wave sensors are slow comparatively.  The devices are slow to wake-up and respond to motion.  Multi-Sensors for the most part only report based on a timed interval that is configured within the device or require an event like motion to trigger an update.  Not all of them but most of the motion sensors when battery powered are like this.  Some of the fastest for motion are the Zooz ZSE09 (discontinued) but can be found as the Dome sensor or NeoCam they are little eyeball sensors.  They are cheap and ok.  The Fibaro literal EyeBall is very good but not well supported yet on ISY.  The ZSE02 (Hockey puck sized sensor very fast) is great ad the Aeotec sensors on power are good but on battery the 1-3 seconds is typical response time. 

ZigBee sensors are BY FAR FASTER than any Z-Wave sensor FYI.... Some of my best sensors and favorite are ZigBee.  The NYCE sensors are all excellent and the Philips Hue Motion sensor is great when paired directly to a Zigbee coordinator and not the Hue bridge.

As for specifics on the Aeotec bulb... it probably is just slow.... As of yet NONE of the Z-Wave bulbs have been impressive enough for me to actually use.

 

1 hour ago, johnnyt said:

2. On a scale of 1-5 how much does zwave and Insteon RF interfere with each other? 1= no to very little, 5= constantly and in every situation

No interference.

1 hour ago, johnnyt said:

3. do some/any/all zwave devices confirm/acknowledge their state after ISY sends a command? 

Z-Wave by specification does ack (confirm) commands and retry when needed.

1 hour ago, johnnyt said:

4. Can/will moving a zwave device after inclusion to a new location cause problems due to some hard coded mesh network paths established at inclusion, or for other reasons (other than out of range)?

Yes.  Especially for battery devices that get too far from the primary controller.  As long as your devices are Z-Wave Plus they will "self-heal" over time... days... otherwise you will need to perform a "Heal" action on the network.  This will cause the nodes to discover their neighbors and provide that information to the controller which will then create the routing tables.  Battery devices DO NOT participate in network heals as they do not route.  It's advisable to include battery devices at their final destination if very far from the primary controller or from a near by routing device.

Removing/powering off a routing device without properly removing it from the network will also cause routing problems and slow down the network overall.

[lilyoyo1]

2 hours ago, johnnyt said:

I just started using a bit of zwave after upgrading a couple of months ago to latest 500-series hardware and 5.0 firmware after a decade or more of using ISY with Insteon (and pre-5.0 firmware). So far I have a couple different multi sensors, Aeotec and ZooZ - primarily for temp, humidity and luminance, an Aeotec multi color bulb, a HomeSeer floodlight motion sensor, and a couple of repeaters. Every device is reasonably close to one or the other repeater but the ISY itself is in the basement "server" room at one end of the house (I think I'm counting on the repeaters a lot)

I have a few questions that would help me better understand and better troubleshoot problems and/or quirks of zwave.

1. Is zwave slow in terms of ISY's ability to react? It does seem to be, especially the bulb right now. Maybe it's just the bulb although my understanding from a review of the Aeotec sensor I have and many other motion sensors tested indicates it can take 2-3 or more secs for motion to cause something to happen (worse with zigbee). The Zooz sensor I have was singled out as excellent at sub second.

2. On a scale of 1-5 how much does zwave and Insteon RF interfere with each other? 1= no to very little, 5= constantly and in every situation

3. do some/any/all zwave devices confirm/acknowledge their state after ISY sends a command? 

4. Can/will moving a zwave device after inclusion to a new location cause problems due to some hard coded mesh network paths established at inclusion, or for other reasons (other than out of range)?

Any info/advice would be appreciated.

 

1- From my experience Insteon on a whole is faster than zwave though it's not by much to be highly noticeable. Due to how zwave works (needing to go through the controller for the most part) it's an unfair comparison since there's a middle man. With that said, 2 linked devices are just as fast as insteon though there will be trade offs.

2-As already stated no interference. Due to differences in frequencies they don't clash. It's akin to driving on the same road but different lanes. 

3- this one is tricky. Different manufactures implement different things. For the most part, newer zwave plus devices all report status. With that said here are still caveats to what the isy can do with this in regards to whether something is a scene capable device or not. 

4- zwave uses routed messaging so moving a device will affect communication. As pointed out already, should you do that, simply run a network heal and that will take care of things. If you have enough zwave plus devices, the network can heal itself though you will experience issues until that takes place.