Phillips Dimmable LED Bulb - A Real Disappointment

[larryllix]

40 minutes ago, LFMc said:

It is IC rated, so it can be in direct contact with insulation according to specs. The temp selection is a switch on the back, so you probably won't be changing it very often once installed, but it is doable. 

I didn't see any insulated ceiling rating. These types usually need to be in an enclosure with a vapour barrier for IC usage. Maybe they can make their own seal? I have IC rated Pot Lights with BR40 LED bulbs in them and you can burn your hand (I have) badly on the bulbs because there is no place for the heat to go.

It would be nice to have a remote temperature select for late TV watching although I only use 3000K overhead lights now. I just dim them and let the RGBWW wall illumination take over.

Edited March 5, 2020 by larryllix

[Teken]

Found a great deal on the clearance table at Lowes this week: 
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Utilitech-85-Watt-Equivalent-White-Dimmable-Canless-Recessed-Downlight-6-in/1001767890
A 6" canless ceiling light, 85w and switchable from 2700K to 5000K in 5 steps. It would dim to 8%, instant on, no hum, and works great. I got mine by talking down the associate and buying them all for $10 ea.   Obviously not a bulb, but works great for a can replacement or adding to a new location. 

Oh that was a nice score! You made out like a bandit at $10.00! Love the fact you can select the colour temp to suite different areas or moods.

Has a freaking 5 year warranty too!


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[LFMc]

3 minutes ago, larryllix said:

I didn't see any insulated ceiling rating. These types usually need to be in an enclosure with a vapour barrier for IC usage. Maybe they can make their own seal? I have IC rated Pot Lights with BR40 LED bulbs in them and you can burn your hand (I have) badly on the bulbs because there is no place for the heat to go.

It would be nice to have a remote temperature select for late TV watching although I only use 3000K overhead lights now. I just dim them and let the RGBWW wall illumination take over.

The IC rating is in the specs and yes they are self sealing. I didn't leave them on long enough to test the heat level. I was impressed that at low dimmer levels they were only using about 1-2 watts each. 

I recently had to replace my roof and I had 5 curb skylights. So I had the roofer cover them completely so they no longer exist from the roof side. I still have the tunnels inside the house. So I am insulating the upper area and putting these lights in place in the tunnel to emulate the sun. I plan to set them at 4000k (sun light level) and then auto dim them based on the position of the sun in the sky to give the appearance of sunlight coming from the skylight. Of course I can override them to get full brightness at any time and some will be used with motion detection to act as a night light when walking through the room at night. 

[larryllix]

The IC rating is in the specs and yes they are self sealing. I didn't leave them on long enough to test the heat level. I was impressed that at low dimmer levels they were only using about 1-2 watts each. 
I recently had to replace my roof and I had 5 curb skylights. So I had the roofer cover them completely so they no longer exist from the roof side. I still have the tunnels inside the house. So I am insulating the upper area and putting these lights in place in the tunnel to emulate the sun. I plan to set them at 4000k (sun light level) and then auto dim them based on the position of the sun in the sky to give the appearance of sunlight coming from the skylight. Of course I can override them to get full brightness at any time and some will be used with motion detection to act as a night light when walking through the room at night. 

Nice.

When I built my home I made the mistake of using all daylight 6500K bulbs.

What you may find is frequently coming home at nights to find bulbs left on. It seems when you leave during the day you look back to see if lights are left on but you dont notice lights on where cant see the bulbs. The light is no different than light coming in the windows.

Now we still find that occasionally where we haven't dumped the 6500k bulbs for a more human colour in closets.

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[lgilsenberg]

I have switched all my bulbs to philips bulbs.  Originally I went with the warm glow bulbs because as you dim them, they change from 2700K to 2200 K.  I use only Insteon Dimmers and I have had no issues.  I've tried A19s, BR30s, BR30 short necks, candelabra bulbs . . . all have worked great.  Last week, I went to Home Depot and bought Philips Wiz 5/ 6 inch recessed lighting replacements.  They change white values and colors via their app, alexa and ifttt.  I started messing around with ISY changing their colors and intensity via the integration with alexa through variables.  It seems to work, but it does make my insteon switches useless.  

I've tried some other interesting bulbs that have nightlights built in and others that are switchable white temperatures.  I seem to always go back to philips.  BTW, the reason I got the philips wiz bulbs is to change the light temperature as the day progresses.   In the Hallway - Morning 2500K 30% / Afternoon 3500K 50% / Evening 2700K 40% / Night 2200K 40% / Late night 2200K 10%

I figure I'll play more with colors when I have a chance.

[oberkc]

9 hours ago, lgilsenberg said:

 but it does make my insteon switches useless.

Why do you say this?  Could you not make a program that changes white values based upon dimmer levels, fast-on, or something like that?

[larryllix]

1 hour ago, oberkc said:

Why do you say this?  Could you not make a program that changes white values based upon dimmer levels, fast-on, or something like that?

Bulbs with internal dimming capability cannot be hooked into dimmers. They require full time 120vac.

[lgilsenberg]

1 hour ago, oberkc said:

Why do you say this?  Could you not make a program that changes white values based upon dimmer levels, fast-on, or something like that?

When I said that the insteon switches are useless when using the wiz bulbs, that's not entirely correct.  You do have to leave power to the wiz bulbs on at all times in order for them to communicate to wifi and they advise against dimming (as in, don't use a dimmer).  I was thinking of replacing the switches with a keypad to change the light type (warm, nite-lite, etc. scenes) instead of buying one of their remote controls.  Today I find i usually change the light type using alexa or through my phone, but my goal is to change based on motion, time of day and light intensity outside (snowy day, sunny day, etc)

Right now I'm looking for a better programming methodology in ISY to set the scenes through alexa.  Today I use if [conditions are met] set Warm.Light.Scene to $ON, set all other scenes to off (individually).  I was going to try and use my Time.of.day variable that I use to control other lights and pass that to alexa but i can only figure out how to pass an on/off value to alexa.

I am also a big believer in motion sensors and was thinking of using sensors to decrease light intensity by xx% every time I leave the room for more than 5 minutes.  

[larryllix]

MS sensed room occupancy doesn't work well for TV watching. You sit and don't move enough for hours at a time.

If you have LED lighting the dimmer will cost you more than you will save in your lifetime, dimming lights every time you exit.

[lgilsenberg]

9 minutes ago, larryllix said:

MS sensed room occupancy doesn't work well for TV watching. You sit and don't move enough for hours at a time.

If you have LED lighting the dimmer will cost you more than you will save in your lifetime, dimming lights every time you exit.

Sorry about pushing thread in a different direction, I was thinking about using MS in the hallway with these bulbs not in the living room.  Today I do use motion sensors in my tv watching room and i change the motion detecting time to turn off lights from 5 minutes to 30 minutes when I'm watching.  I find it works very well, I usually fidget or snack during the 30 minutes enough to keep the lights on.  I also have an alexa integration where I can say set motion to xx minutes or set motion to off.

[MrBill]

4 hours ago, oberkc said:

Why do you say this?  Could you not make a program that changes white values based upon dimmer levels, fast-on, or something like that?

 

2 hours ago, larryllix said:

Bulbs with internal dimming capability cannot be hooked into dimmers. They require full time 120vac.

What Larry said.   I switched my Front Porch cans to color Phillips Hue.  The switch that was controlling the cans is an 8-button KPL, I moved the power feed from the red wire of the switch to always on.   I did create a program for the A button (with capped red wire) to turn on/off the front porch lights via hue.  I've realized I could make it more complex and cycle through some preset color by holding the button, but its really simple and fast to say "Alexa, set Front porch Red" (This is Chiefs Kingdom, they were Red like half the town for awhile this month).  Anyway with smart bulbs the expensive Insteon devices ahead of them aren't needed.  Same story soon to be at the back deck.

[MrBill]

2 hours ago, lgilsenberg said:

Today I use if [conditions are met] set Warm.Light.Scene to $ON, set all other scenes to off (individually).

My Front lighting has 4 Scenes: Daytime, early Evening, Late Night and Bright.  All 4 scenes contain ALL of the same lights. I never turn any scene to off.  the First 3 scene's follow the variable that I call $sDark, it has a value of zero from Sunrise to Sunset, 1 from Sunset to "bedtime", and 2 from "bedtime" to Sunrise.  There are also 4 KPL buttons at the Front Door to override, 1 of the 4 is a  controller for each scene and is set as "Non-toggle On", the other 3 buttons are included in each scene so that the button can be turned off by the new scene being activated.  Essentially this makes 4 of the KPL buttons behave like mutually exclusive radio buttons only 1 of the 4 can be "on" and turning on different button turns off the last one.

I like using the $sDark variable rather than using Sunrise and Sunset in various programs because at any given time, like right now, I can just use the admin console to change the value of the variable and I can watch the entire transition (inside and out) from day to evening, and so on.  It's great for testing, I can discover quickly if for example too much is happening and I need to add a 'wait' to make certain something isn't skipped.  (and the original intent of $sDark was actually to have one more value for dark overcast days that was implemented via outdoor lumens, but honestly I really have no need and have never implemented that).

[larryllix]

2 hours ago, lgilsenberg said:

Sorry about pushing thread in a different direction, I was thinking about using MS in the hallway with these bulbs not in the living room.  Today I do use motion sensors in my tv watching room and i change the motion detecting time to turn off lights from 5 minutes to 30 minutes when I'm watching.  I find it works very well, I usually fidget or snack during the 30 minutes enough to keep the lights on.  I also have an alexa integration where I can say set motion to xx minutes or set motion to off.

I do a similar thing using a programmable timer programs to tell if I am home. It would seem my TV watching room timer at 3 hours would be a negative but when you walk through any home exit room the timer is reset to 10-15 minutes and the security sets it to 1 minute.

15 MSes work well but the batteries are a PITA.

[larryllix]

3 minutes ago, MrBill said:

My Front lighting has 4 Scenes: Daytime, early Evening, Late Night and Bright.  All 4 scenes contain ALL of the same lights. I never turn any scene to off.  the First 3 scene's follow the variable that I call $sDark, it has a value of zero from Sunrise to Sunset, 1 from Sunset to "bedtime", and 2 from "bedtime" to Sunrise.  There are also 4 KPL buttons at the Front Door to override, 1 of the 4 is a  controller for each scene and is set as "Non-toggle On", the other 3 buttons are included in each scene so that the button can be turned off by the new scene being activated.  Essentially this makes 4 of the KPL buttons behave like mutually exclusive radio buttons only 1 of the 4 can be "on" and turning on different button turns off the last one.

I like using the $sDark variable rather than using Sunrise and Sunset in various programs because at any given time, like right now, I can just use the admin console to change the value of the variable and I can watch the entire transition (inside and out) from day to evening, and so on.  It's great for testing, I can discover quickly if for example too much is happening and I need to add a 'wait' to make certain something isn't skipped.  (and the original intent of $sDark was actually to have one more value for dark overcast days that was implemented via outdoor lumens, but honestly I really have no need and have never implemented that).

I use variable constants in a similar way. My capped off Insteon SwitchLinc controls on and off white levels, while my Alexa and ISY control $cFULL, $cDIM, $cVeryDIM, $cRED, .... $cVIOLET, $cCANADA, $cUSA, $cCHRISTMAS, $cEASTER, $PARTY, etc.. etc. coloured light themes. These substitute for each nights outside porch and deck lights that surround my home. $cOFF constant controls another "scene"

[MrBill]

7 minutes ago, larryllix said:

I use variable constants in a similar way. My capped off Insteon SwitchLinc controls on and off white levels, while my Alexa and ISY control $cFULL, $cDIM, $cVeryDIM, $cRED, .... $cVIOLET, $cCANADA, $cUSA, $cCHRISTMAS, $cEASTER, $PARTY, etc.. etc. coloured light themes. These substitute for each nights outside porch and deck lights that surround my home. $cOFF constant controls another "scene"

I'm going to have to explore those ideas, I've put off adding a lot of colored bulbs but it seems to be happening.

[larryllix]

2 hours ago, MrBill said:

I'm going to have to explore those ideas, I've put off adding a lot of colored bulbs but it seems to be happening.

I use the same constants for my Insteon Scenes and bulbs (white) and my RGBWW bulbs and strips in a few different rooms. Any number can be used for the constants as long as you never use absolute numbers in programs. The best part is "borrowing" a light to flash a warning, or turn porch lights on full for 10 minutes. You just run the program again, or stuff the variable back into the control and the usual lighting resumes, no matter how much of a mess you made in levels and colours.

 

[oberkc]

12 hours ago, larryllix said:

Bulbs with internal dimming capability cannot be hooked into dimmers. They require full time 120vac.

Yes, but could not one modify the wiring such that constant power is now applied to the light, and trigger different levels and colors via program, triggered by the dimmer switch?

[larryllix]

3 hours ago, oberkc said:

Yes, but could not one modify the wiring such that constant power is now applied to the light, and trigger different levels and colors via program, triggered by the dimmer switch?

Yes. I realised you were talking about that after. @MrBill was posting about that usage somewhat then.