Opinions? Vacant building monitoring

[simplextech]

18 minutes ago, Mustang65 said:

we take Stretch Type plastic food wrap and seal the toilet bowls.

Yeah we used to do that as kids as a prank!!!!

 

[apostolakisl]

The pee traps don't dry out because the water is off, they dry out because no one used the sink/toilet.  So if no one is there, they will dry out regardless of the water main status.  Also, the pee traps don't dry out in two days or something.  It takes weeks or months depending on temp/humidity.  I would highly suggest finding the manual shut-off and shutting the water off.  I reiterate, shut the water off!  Then, visit the building every two weeks, turn the water on, flush the toilets and run the sinks.  Then turn it off.  Even if you hire someone to do that, it will be a lot cheaper than all those sensors and monitoring.  Plus, you should just in general have someone check up on the property every couple weeks regardless.  Again, shut the water off.  Trust me, shut the water off.

[Teken]

That's really interesting -- I haven't heard of security at that level for an empty building.  I would guess in some cities and location that would be needed.  I don't think I've ever seen a building around here boarded up and fenced off as a temporary security measure.  That makes me ask myself the good question about what level is needed here. 
There are cameras on the exterior doors but I'm guessing the DVR is ancient and not remotely accessible and probably no motion triggers.  I'll have to see what the alarm system actually has sensors on.  This a $4M building, 2 story, and about 75% is office space and it will be totally empty.  Building is older.  It was estimated it could take a year to lease/sale and we're 9 months into that.  With the COVID-19, I'm guessing it will take longer than usual to lease/sale.  I'm guessing commercial real estate takes a decent slow down even though it's been pretty hot in this county for the past couple of years.  That hot construction market is probably going to cause excess inventory around here.

The city passed several bylaws and compliance acts over the years. Primarily to address dead beat property owners. The other part is due to something called the heritage act.

Essentially really old buildings must be protected from disrepair, vandalism, and fire. As others noted kids and squatters are ever present and arson is something that is like lice.

I don’t think anyone ever considered COVID-19 as a player in real estate but it has. The conglomerate has and owns millions of sites so all of the above doesn’t really cost them a lot given it’s just another business write off.

Perimeter fencing and concrete barriers just makes securing a building so much easier and repels easily 98% of the looky lues.

When people see those pods outside the building with truck / person it pretty much negates the other 1%.

The last percent really comes down to the area and really bad luck. Case in point lightning struck one of the buildings and blew up a transformer. The surge came into the main electrical room and ignited a massive fire. The only saving grace was the fact the room was fire rated and allowed the FD to arrive in time to put it out.

As noted insurance was key because two entire floors of building wiring had to be ripped out. It was the first time I’ve ever seen carbon tracking on drywall.


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[Mustang65]

18 hours ago, kohai said:

 

My thoughts:

1. Alarm system - add zones to the alarm system to monitor water/flood sensors.  I'd have to pay someone to do that since I don't manage the alarm system (I guess I could take that over but... it's a big building and I'd rather not spend a ton of time figuring out its setup). 

Upside:  good long term solution for future floods, could add sensors to utility rooms

Downside: can't easily add sensors under sinks or by toilets without a lot of effort or wouldn't be discreet

2. Z-wave - HomeSeer HS-LS100+ sensors are reasonably priced at about $27.  I could add an ISY994i.

Upside: For a short term solution, it would be easy to deploy sensors

Downside: Need to get a mobile hotspot/internet setup as there is no internet in the building.  No long term monitoring without turning over the z-wave setup to a new tenant which they probably won't want or maintain.

3. Sensor tags - about the same price as the Homeseer so I'm not really considering it, would still need some sort of connectivity.  Not a system I have used and not something I would use after.

 

The building also has an older camera DVR that I may want to try to upgrade so I can tap into for remote access.  Not having a regular internet service would be a downside.  I'm considering a cheap mobile hotspot if the traffic needs are small enough.  Being a commercial building, a business internet account would probably be required to get any internet service easily.  

Anyway, kind of a random project.  Anybody have ideas I haven't considered?

Does the site have internet?

There are flow sensors that wrap around the pipe and sense when the water is flowing. One of those on the main incoming water line along with an alert/alarm should do the trick and eliminate the need for sensors all over the place.

https://www.pulsar-pm.com/Instrumentation/Product-Types/Flow/Flow-Pulse

 

 

[kohai]

1 hour ago, Mustang65 said:

Does the site have internet?

There are flow sensors that wrap around the pipe and sense when the water is flowing. One of those on the main incoming water line along with an alert/alarm should do the trick and eliminate the need for sensors all over the place.

https://www.pulsar-pm.com/Instrumentation/Product-Types/Flow/Flow-Pulse

 

 

Good ideas.  I'll check them out.  Given Teken's comments, I think I should get a solid internet connection and a better camera setup for remote triggers and some ability to monitor from my house.

One day, we'll all be able to afford one of these:

[kohai]

12 hours ago, apostolakisl said:

The pee traps don't dry out because the water is off, they dry out because no one used the sink/toilet.  So if no one is there, they will dry out regardless of the water main status.  Also, the pee traps don't dry out in two days or something.  It takes weeks or months depending on temp/humidity.  I would highly suggest finding the manual shut-off and shutting the water off.  I reiterate, shut the water off!  Then, visit the building every two weeks, turn the water on, flush the toilets and run the sinks.  Then turn it off.  Even if you hire someone to do that, it will be a lot cheaper than all those sensors and monitoring.  Plus, you should just in general have someone check up on the property every couple weeks regardless.  Again, shut the water off.  Trust me, shut the water off.

I'll scout out the shut offs and see about this approach as well.  It's reasonable and straight forward.

[Mustang65]

forget the robot go with this nicely equipped drone. You don't even have to leave your homes media center to activate

A couple warning shots should do the trick.

 

[Teken]

36 minutes ago, Mustang65 said:

forget the robot go with this nicely equipped drone. You don't even have to leave your homes media center to activate

A couple warning shots should do the trick.

 

Come On!! ?

Purely from a tactical point of view one always maime's a single person. Doing so, insures the opposing force must take care & control of the injured. This slows them down and makes them lose focus on the task at hand. ?  

One never wastes finite resources during a prolonged siege - One Shot, One Kill!  ?

[TrojanHorse]

The pee traps don't dry out because the water is off, they dry out because no one used the sink/toilet.  So if no one is there, they will dry out regardless of the water main status.  Also, the pee traps don't dry out in two days or something.  It takes weeks or months depending on temp/humidity.  I would highly suggest finding the manual shut-off and shutting the water off.  I reiterate, shut the water off!  Then, visit the building every two weeks, turn the water on, flush the toilets and run the sinks.  Then turn it off.  Even if you hire someone to do that, it will be a lot cheaper than all those sensors and monitoring.  Plus, you should just in general have someone check up on the property every couple weeks regardless.  Again, shut the water off.  Trust me, shut the water off.

Agree. KISS and turn the water off if it’s a concern. Tech is cool but the physical realm here is better.

One thing I learned from a smart commercial GC years ago is put olive oil in the drains. It will go into the top of traps and form a barrier (water and oil don’t mix) and not evaporate. Probably won’t last forever but is a good option. Not sure Pine Sol has enough oil? Toilets have the trap built into them but maybe plunger the water down enough and add olive oil? Or just leave them and check / flush periodically. I’ve never tried it myself.

Drone with gun would be good too but if effective would only make the stink worse?


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[madcodger]

A decent internet connection is essential. You can probably find a local ISP with a first-year deal for internet only for under $100/mo. for a commercial building. You'll need to put in some decent wifi, which will cost a bit more as a one-time expense.

Many of the folks on this board (and most forums of this type) are either professionals or hard-core hobbyists. As such, recommendations are sometimes "all in or nothing". I have a somewhat different view. We have a much smaller office building that is fully occupied by our companies and some trusted tenants, but is currently largely vacant due to COVID-19. The one or two tenants who go in there, and the weekly cleaning crew we still use, aren't checking things out everywhere (such as utility closets, etc.). We also own a remote vacation property in Maine, 500 miles from our home and with only one other neighbor who is handy but not a "techie". So, I have two properties that need to be monitored, but I don't want to spend a fortune at either. Here's what I did:

- Both properties have professionally installed and monitored burglar and fire alarm systems. That gets me a break on insurance and some basic piece of mind about physical security. 

- Z-wave leak sensors in some key areas, where leaks might go undetected for a while. I use several but if you have AC power, the Homeseer FS-100 is great. The only oddity is that it reports temps in Celsius for the ISY. Many leak sensors often have temperaure sensors built in. The only time they have gone off (i.e., the only leak) is when a boiler valve developed a very slow leak. I also use the Homeseer LS-100 and it's good, but battery Z-wave devices sometimes don't reappear if the ISY is reset for any reason. I also have some Aeotec and ecolink devices but find them much less reliable, personally.

- If you get a leak, you don't know whether it's a flood or no big deal (see boiler valve comment above). So, fairly cheap wifi cameras with motion sensitivity built into them are awesome. People go on and on about security cameras, but for my needs, I just want to know whether a leak is an emergency or something that can wait, and whether the temperature is still OK. I used toy-like Blink cameras from Amazon but wouldn't use them again as they're not even reliable enough for these limited needs. But would a cheap Lorex system do the job? Probably (although I need to check out their internet security before I install it myself). If you're trying to do security for your family's safety or to protect a secure facility, professionals cameras are great. But for simple piece of mind when you get a leak alert? I wouldn't spend a fortune.

The biggest problems we've had have come from the z-wave hub and at the Maine property, internet (but internet is not likely a worry for you, so I won't go into it). For a hub, I've owned an ISY for years and years now, over four properties, and I've never had one fail. So, it's now my go-to hub device. I've also used Homeseer for many years, and find it insufficiently reliable for my needs as the devices eventually lock up no matter what I run (pc, Rpi, etc). I also tried a SmartThings hub and hate it now as z-wave devices constantly drop out and then sometimes just reappear weeks later. The ISY can be mildly annoying in terms of the interfaces needed for monitoring, but it's by far the best (most reliable) solution I've found.

Anyway, that's my two cents for whatever it's worth. Don't skimp on fire protection. Buy insurance, of course. For piece of mind items, most "consumer" tech works just fine.