Ditch Nest for EcoBee?

[jtara92101]

Getting frustrated with Google's botched transition from Works With Nest to Works With Google Assistant/Device Access along with login change from Nest to Google.

I have Keen air vents: https://keenhome.io/

Keen has warned users not to transition to Google login, as they have so far been unable to switch to Works with Google. Unclear where the holdup is. But assume other companies are in the same boat. (Of course, this is typical Keen - I will make a separate post to discuss the Keen air vents!)

I know that Works with Google Assistant was only "select partners" initially, but appears they are now taking applications from companies, with access by individuals wanting to experiment "late 2020".

See:

https://blog.google/products/google-nest/works-with-nest

and:

https://developers.google.com/nest/device-access

----

Anyhoo, I made the transition to Works with Google Assistant, don't exactly remember why. Oh, I guess Google Home... So I had to make a Hobson's Choice, and figured better move on, Works With Google Nest will eventually be shut off entirely.

So, I'd love a Nest vs. EcoBee discussion.

EcoBee seems to be favored by Keen as their thermostat of choice, and Keen's system can make use of Ecobee sensors. (I did already get 3 Keen sensors - they are only temp/humidity, though and - typical Keen - maybe there is a humidity sensor there, but apparently no way to display or make use of humidity...).

San Diego Gas and Electric is currently running a $75 in-store rebate at Home Depot (and a few other retailers), and pretty sure I bought my Nest enough years ago (and at a different address) so I would qualify for the rebate. And Home Depot is currently selling the Ecobee 3 Lite for $149, bringing cost to $74. (Not a fan of Alexa, I use Google Home).

Especially interested to hear from those who have lived with both Nest and Ecobee, or those who have switched one way or the other.

I live in a smallish (900 sq ft) 2BR condo in a historic small highrise on the edge of downtown San Diego, and use one BR that is closer to a den for home office. HVAC is a pretty cool system with a circa-2000 Trane heat pump working against circulated fluid assisted by a cooling tower on roof and boiler. (The later two an HOA expense, the heat pump on our individual dime). SW side with ferocious afternoon sun and not allowed to replace the historic single-pane glass... (National Historic Register and Mills Act tax relief. Yes, there is idiotic tax relief in California that can require that you be energy efficient, or at least that is interpreted as such by idiot HOA...)

Besides the nest I have Insteon devices at every plate. I suppose I'd make a different choice today, but I've had them for many years and brought along from a previous larger place. An isy994 Pro of course, Google Home, a smattering of Hue lights bulbs and strips, and Roomie Remote for AV center.

A long, long time ago I had the Insteon thermostat dongle, much prefer the Nest. One thing I'm not sure I'd like about the Ecobee is the fixed programming vs Nest learning. From above, you can see it is a bit of a difficult heating/cooling situation and needs will vary seasonally. It is common on shoulder seasons to need both heating and cooling on the same day. So, the fixed schedule bothers me. I fear it won't work for me. I find that as the seasons change, as I open and close curtains, etc. I need to fiddle with the dial to achieve the best perceived (with emphasis on PERCEIVED) temperature. The Nest does seem to eventually dial it in to where I don't need to fiddle. With Ecobee, I guess I would either be overriding or fretting over adjusting the schedule.

I should add that I am a BIG believer in auto-adjustment from usage patterns. I had a Magic Stat when they first came out - before the patent was bought by Honeywell. I'm from Michigan, and somebody I did some work for knew the inventor and used the same patent attorney. I think the patent attorney gave us a copy of the Magic Stat patent to illustrate some points, and when I read it I'm like wow, I have to have one of these, and got one right away. So, I'm afraid I would miss the automagic adjustment. Patent issue? Didn't Nest have a patent fight with Honeywell? Maybe Ecobee either doesn't want to pony-up or isn't big enough for a patent fight with Honeywell?

Besides my frustration with inability to now easily tie-in the Nest to other automation, I note (along apparently with many others) the Nest temperature is wildly inaccurate. It's not just that it's at least a couple of degrees high (verified against both the Keens temperature sensors and a thermocouple sensor connected to Thermoworks display hung in free air right next to Nest) the inaccuracy seems to vary. It can vary from 2 degrees F high to 5 degrees high! (I've read something about a "drawdown resistor" behind the plate, don't remember anything about installing a resister?)

Finally, I'll mention that I'm a software developer (mostly mobile apps and their server bankends, but lots of iOT in my dark past), and so I tinker a bit. I'm a registered UDI developer, and when I get a Round Tuit I will probably write a Poly for some thingambob or another. So, interested in relative ease of use for developers.

 

[jtara92101]

Maybe Eco+ addresses some of my EcoBee concerns?

https://www.ecobee.com/en-us/eco-plus/

https://support.ecobee.com/hc/en-us/articles/360035246672?_ga=2.116655619.420532492.1588965186-1096703894.1588965186

"Schedule Assistant" sounds similar to the Nest auto-schedule, but getting your permission to change the schedule?

And "feels like" might mean I don't jump up to change the thermostat so much.

 

[lilyoyo1]

Are you using a 99i or 994? Which one determines what you can do with the isy and your thermostat.

Both thermostats have pros and cons. Neither is perfect so it comes down to personal choice in regards what matters to you. Ialways consider how I use a device now and potentially in the future. Then its ease of use and compatibility. Due to what I was looking for, the ecobee and its sensors matter more than what nest offers. The fact that google doesn't own it is icing on the cake.

 While the nest learning capability is nice for some, it wasnt for me when I did have a nest. I found myself turning it off because it would kick in or out when I didnt want it to. For me, automation should not make me do things I would not ordinarily do in any given situation.

With that said, Ive had less issues with my ecobees than others I know that still use Nest. It simply works. The nodeserver that allows you to add the ecobee to the isy has been rock solid and allows me to integrate my ecobee with my other devices. Because ecobee isnt trying to be all things (the way google is), I think you are less likely to worry about things shutting down or changing on a whim the way you would with google.

[jtara92101]

Whoops, sorry, 994 Pro. Did the update program ages ago!

Thanks for the reply! I do want to be able to do tighter integration. For example, I have Insteon magnetic sensors I've never installed on the windows. They aren't mean for intrusion detection (I do have one on the door). They were meant to shut off the HVAC if a window is open!

I'm going to go to Home Depot and get an EcoBee 3 lite. I can always return it - HD has an extended return period right now due to COVID-19 even longer than their normal return period.

And this will give me the push to update to 5.x. AND to order a Polisy.

[asbril]

I had never heard of this Keen product and will explore for one of our rooms, where the air gets cooler than in others. I looked at their website and did not see anything related to Google?nest integration. I have 2 Nest thermostats in my home and am not interested in changing for Ecobee.

However, I am not sure that, in my case, that link is so important, as lowering the air in that specific room is more a permanent issue, though it would be nice to have a Keem nodeserver and nothing to control the Keen from their App. One of the many things I love about ISY is that it allows me to control many products from one place.

What tickles my interest is   https://blog.google/products/google-nest/works-with-nest     and I wonder what possibilities this gives us for ISY.

[jtara92101]

40 minutes ago, asbril said:

What tickles my interest is   https://blog.google/products/google-nest/works-with-nest     and I wonder what possibilities this gives us for ISY.

Works With Nest is an obsolete program. Once you've transitioned to logging in with Google, Works With Nest no longer works. Google has been slow to roll out the new Works With Google Assistant and other companies have been slow to adopt.

There is another thread here about that. I will see if I can find it and link here.

As for Keen, I will make a promised separate post. I have some hints and kinks! The Keen product is PERFECT for a situation where a single room gets colder/hotter than the others. Apparently, the API has been worked out, but the company doesn't publish it officially. I think they are a part of a larger company that does industrial sensor networks, and so I think somebody discovered they use the same API. Haven't paid much attention, just was doing some Googling and recall somebody has a Github project.

Since I just ordered my Polisy Pro, I will look into the possibility of a Poly for the Keens.

[larryllix]

Two of my son's use three different Nest stats. I have two ecobees. The auto-setting in Nest seems to be  really bad joke and although bound and determined the Nest auto-programming should be the best both have disabled that feature. After a few months of manually adjusting their stats the Nests are found with dozens of temperature changes, remembering where every manual adjustment ever took place. That was a wash.

Ecobees have as many different climate types (schedules) as the user wants to program. I haven;t tried more than about 8 climate types so far though. Ecobee stats also have two complete heating and cooling settings so the user never has to reprogram the stat schedules. You simply switch from heat to A/C or leave it in automatic and it switches itself, based on a some programmable setting. I don;t use it because I am very sensitive to 0.5 degree changes.

Ecobee stats have user calibratible sensors including humidity, to 0.3 degree corrections and senses to 0.1 degree increments. This eliminates the 0.5 sensing and setting and HVAC temperature  bobble experienced by other stats. This is valued by people sensitive to temperature changes. Some will never know the difference. Seeing a thermo probe in your photos I assume you may be, also.

I have five remote sensors. While they may be interesting to monitor temperatures in other rooms, I find them mostly useless and only introduce other factors to allow the temperatures to wander. I have an odd home, insulated to R40 in my basements with a huge thermal inertia, so much of my opinion/style may be based on that factor.
Here is a scenario.  I have a sensor in my MBR. Switching the sensing over to that sensor while in the MBR sounds like a good idea but.... We like it cool at nights for sleeping and due to the slow response in our home my ISY sets the stat to sleep climate between 5 PM and 11 PM , depending on the outside temperature. When the climate is milder the temperature would not drop from the daytime setpoint until about 4-5 AM and we would sleep poorly in a hot bedroom. After supper we open the MBR window to cool the room down, also closing the door. Now the sensor sees this cooler air and overheats the rest of the house. Without zone control the idea is mostly useless for me. I have five zones but MBR is not one of them. Failure concept for my system.

I disable the "follow me" feature as it changes sensors by detecting where you are. My home responds so slowly to temperature changes it would never likely ever be comfortable in any room until after we left. Failure concept for my system.

I have found the temperature sensor doesn't wander half as much as other stats. I have tried a few different brands. From an average of about 7 different sensors I see a wander of less than 1.0 C seasonally whereas other brands wandered up to 4 degrees C daily. I guess you know that the face readings on all stats are crap and not reality, changing based on what the stat is calling for. Check the database files for accurate sensing to 0.1C resolution. Ecobee stats show an average of all sensors involved plus or minus their "fudge factor" to control the cycle times.

It will be nice to hear your comparative and knowledgeable feedback on the ecobee after owning Nest stats.

 

 

 

 

[jtara92101]

There was a glitch with the rebate.

I went to the SDGE site to get the coupon, but was told there is an issue and somebody will call me within 2 days to provide "an alternative way to obtain the rebate".

I think it's because my Nest is enrolled in an SDGE program for setbacks during extreme peaks (you can override) and they send me a $25 gift card every year.

No way to unenroll without the utility doing it for you. So, hopefully they can unenroll me and I can qualify for the rebate. Then I can re-enroll with the Ecobee.

I get it, they need to make sure the right company gets the "credit" for the program.

I've had the Nest for many years, so imagine I can get the rebate with a bit of red tape. I will just tell them screw it, I'm putting in a classic round Honeywell!

[larryllix]

3 minutes ago, jtara92101 said:

There was a glitch with the rebate.

I went to the SDGE site to get the coupon, but was told there is an issue and somebody will call me within 2 days to provide "an alternative way to obtain the rebate".

I think it's because my Nest is enrolled in an SDGE program for setbacks during extreme peaks (you can override) and they send me a $25 gift card every year.

No way to unenroll without the utility doing it for you. So, hopefully they can unenroll me and I can qualify for the rebate. Then I can re-enroll with the Ecobee.

I get it, they need to make sure the right company gets the "credit" for the program.

I've had the Nest for many years, so imagine I can get the rebate with a bit of red tape. I will just tell them screw it, I'm putting in a classic round Honeywell!

Hang the nest off the transformer power only in the utility room, and let them fiddle with it all they want. LOL

[jtara92101]

8 hours ago, larryllix said:

Hang the nest off the transformer power only in the utility room, and let them fiddle with it all they want. LOL

LOL, they might have somebody contact me with helpful hints about my "faulty equipment" when they don't see the temperature change.

I don't mind the setback. You can override it - just turn it back down/up. And this is done on Reduce your Use days, and there are further incentives if you do leave it alone.

But pretty sure I will have to un-enroll in order to get a rebate on the Ecobee. Because I think SDGE or the state are sending incentive money to Nest. So, I have to un-enroll so that I'm not participating in any energy incentive program. Then I can get the Ecobee credit, and re-enroll if I wish.

Pretty sure that's what is going on.

[jtara92101]

On 5/9/2020 at 12:02 PM, larryllix said:

This is valued by people sensitive to temperature changes. Some will never know the difference. Seeing a thermo probe in your photos I assume you may be, also.

I guess I am. Or just the extremes from the building type and orientation.

(Did I mention the hollow terra-cotta block curtain walls? Big air gap that doesn't help a bit because... terra cotta! Took a lot of shoring up to get historic downtown San Diego buildings somewhat earthquake-safe... In the winter it's great, it just bakes all night.)

The temp probe(s) are for cooking. But are great for various handyman projects as well. Thermoworks is a "go to" brand for cooks - they make a popular "instant read" pen style device. I have an old dual-channel Bluetooth model which can do data logging with an app. I have quite the collection of probes - the one in the picture is an oven probe, so meant for open air measurement. I have:

- oven probe

- quick read (same as their "pen")

- needle (useful for sous-vide, have not used it much. In theory, you can pierce a sous-vide bad and somehow seal it up...)

- BBQ (also use in oven for meat temperature)

- surface ribbon (I never heat a skillet without a temperature reading). This one is slow as molasses, but way more accurate than an IR gun (I guess they are OK at 98-something-ish, but not so much at 300-400F)

 

[jtara92101]

FYI, I just got an email from "CLEARResult Rebate Processing" with a coupon code good for $75 off on an Ecobee at Home Depot through 12/31/2020.

So, unclear exactly what the problem was.

I presume if I enroll in a setback program with the Ecobee, that will automatically un-enroll me from the setback program I'm registered for with the Nest.

Thanks to all for the advice. I will be purchasing an Ecobee 3 Lite from Home Depot and putting my Nest Gen 3 up for sale. I just checked completed auctions on eBay, and I should actually come out ahead!

[larryllix]

Many times at Home Depot they have coupons on the shelves or behind the checkout counters so people don't waste them.

When the coupons are not available, many times they off the ecobee3 with two free remote sensors for the usual price.

[jtara92101]

Thanks, Larry!

This is an SDGE-specific rebate, $75 for nearly any brand of eco thermostat. You have to pick the store,  in-store or delivery, brand, and model at the time of registration. They collect your SDGE account information and verify.

But the coupon I got says "Please use this coupon  at The Home Depot (in store only)) and you will received $75 off your purchase of a qualifying smart thermostat until 12/31/20.

I picked the model without the sensors, thinking I might add them later. But wasn't thinking of selling the Nest for some reason, and hadn't realized how much used Nests go for.

Think now I'll see if I can purchase the Ecobee with the sensors in the package. I did see them at Home Depot.

Ecobee 3 Lite normal price $160

Home Depot sale price: $149

- $75 in-store rebate: $74

Recent eBay completed auctions for Nest 3: $125

Net cost: -$51

I should get the sensors, huh.... LOL

Oh, just checked, they don't have the package with the sensors included, and the price is too darn high $248.

But they have one sensor 2-pack for $79.

So, I upgrade from the Nest to Ecobee 3 Lite with 2 sensors for $28. Arguably, depending on eBay.

 

[jtara92101]

I went to Home Depot and got the Ecobee 3 Lite and pack of 2 sensors. The pack of sensors was "hidden", maybe somebody intended to come back for them later... (was only one shown in stock). Had to get help took a while for the guy to find the sensor pack hidden behind another product. At least he knew where to look.

The thermostat was an ordeal. First, the checkout guy insisted on entering the rebate code (a very long number I had to read from my phone through a mask...) on the sensors. I didn't understand that he'd only rung-up the sensors. I finally noticed and had to explain to him that the rebate code would only work on the thermostat. He didn't understand about the "ticket" I brought from the display (they have to get these out of a cage) finally got him to look in the cage, and could not find. Kept picking up Google products. I don't know how many times I said, "no, Ecobee") Had to get a manager, and all she could say is "we're probably out of stock". After a bunch of running around by a bunch of people, it was discovered... in the cage... placed in sideways so the picture couldn't be seen.

OK, they are stressed, and was closing time after all the ordeal.

The Ecobee 3 Lite doesn't come with a smart sensor, guess the older one did. I could really use 3.

Important thing for me with the sensors is to be able to set the thermostat at night based on bedroom temperature. Assume that is possible? Maybe I have to do it with some ISY program.

Ecobee 3 Lite has an occupancy sensor built-in or not? If it does, I'm good with two sensors.

So now I also have 3 Keen temp/humidity sensors that I probably don't need. Since the Keen hub can read the Ecobees.

[larryllix]

6 hours ago, jtara92101 said:

I went to Home Depot and got the Ecobee 3 Lite and pack of 2 sensors. The pack of sensors was "hidden", maybe somebody intended to come back for them later... (was only one shown in stock). Had to get help took a while for the guy to find the sensor pack hidden behind another product. At least he knew where to look.

The thermostat was an ordeal. First, the checkout guy insisted on entering the rebate code (a very long number I had to read from my phone through a mask...) on the sensors. I didn't understand that he'd only rung-up the sensors. I finally noticed and had to explain to him that the rebate code would only work on the thermostat. He didn't understand about the "ticket" I brought from the display (they have to get these out of a cage) finally got him to look in the cage, and could not find. Kept picking up Google products. I don't know how many times I said, "no, Ecobee") Had to get a manager, and all she could say is "we're probably out of stock". After a bunch of running around by a bunch of people, it was discovered... in the cage... placed in sideways so the picture couldn't be seen.

OK, they are stressed, and was closing time after all the ordeal.

The Ecobee 3 Lite doesn't come with a smart sensor, guess the older one did. I could really use 3.

Important thing for me with the sensors is to be able to set the thermostat at night based on bedroom temperature. Assume that is possible? Maybe I have to do it with some ISY program.

Ecobee 3 Lite has an occupancy sensor built-in or not? If it does, I'm good with two sensors.

So now I also have 3 Keen temp/humidity sensors that I probably don't need. Since the Keen hub can read the Ecobees.

Yes, the ecobee3 has two level of proximity sensors built in. One for occupancy and one for stat approach that changes the detail shown when you stand in front of it.

Note the temperature reading shown on the front will not be the sensed temperature at the stat. It will be the average of every sensor selected at the time, including the stat sensor, if selected at the time.

I would place all the sensor around the stat, disable all contributions to the temperature, and check they all agree on temperature before installing the sensors. You can fudge the stat sensing calibration but not the sensor calibrations. I would make them agree as close as possible. I have always found some sensor wander for the first week or two on every stat brand I have tried. That includes Honeywell, Insteon, Venstar, and ecobee. May need to check calibration after the burn-in period again.

The sensors can be set on "Follow me" mode for automatic inclusion, or manual where you decide. I have all automatic features disabled and only one sensor switched in and out depending on time of day. Every climate type (time segment) contain heat setpoint, cooling setpoint, fan cycle duration, and which sensors are included in the average temperature.

The occupancy sensing is very slow. Don't attempt to use it to control lights.

If you create a user defined climate type, never delete it, but rather modify it with a new name. If you do, you may find climate type numbers totally every one you ever experimented with. eg. Home, Sleep, Away,  type4=blank, type5=blank, type6=blank, type7=blank, Evening, Morning. They will all get sent every three minutes on update and they are all big with every 15 minutes of the week listed...a lot of data. Also the NS may run out of allocation memory room with a few dozen climate types. When you factory reset the stat you start all over and the NS data doesn't line up.

When you set up the stat it will automatically sense your wiring. If you want to use the humidity sensing you may have to override the automatic setup unless you have a humidifier connected to the terminal at the time.

[jtara92101]

Thank you so much for the advice! This sounds like exactly what I want. Assume I can have an ISY program switch climate types and/or switch sensors in/out so that it's using bedroom temperature when sleeping. I can do e.g. some "tap code" on the Insteon keypadlinc at the bedroom door. (Or switch it over to 8 button, I'm out of buttons!)

Assume something similar is available with Nest with remote sensors. But not willing to go deeper into the Nest world after the kerfuffle with the API.

----

As a software developer, I am now very wary of hardware/software/APIs that comes from "advertising companies". They are advertising companies, not software development tools companies. (Facebook is #1 on my radar, Google at least USED to intend to do no evil...) They will pull the rug out if it suits them. A recent project I worked on was in part a rescue from the "parse disaster".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parse_(platform)

https://venturebeat.com/2016/02/03/facebook-never-wanted-to-host-your-app-the-real-reasons-it-shut-down-parse/

And, so, I shake my head as so many lemmings, er, companies and developers drink the React and React Native koolaide.

So, happy to de-Google. Though I still like Google Home, it has the best voice recognition and most useful query results. Much prefer over the Amazon order-bot speakers.

 

[larryllix]

2 hours ago, jtara92101 said:

Thank you so much for the advice! This sounds like exactly what I want. Assume I can have an ISY program switch climate types and/or switch sensors in/out so that it's using bedroom temperature when sleeping. I can do e.g. some "tap code" on the Insteon keypadlinc at the bedroom door. (Or switch it over to 8 button, I'm out of buttons!)

Assume something similar is available with Nest with remote sensors. But not willing to go deeper into the Nest world after the kerfuffle with the API.

----

As a software developer, I am now very wary of hardware/software/APIs that comes from "advertising companies". They are advertising companies, not software development tools companies. (Facebook is #1 on my radar, Google at least USED to intend to do no evil...) They will pull the rug out if it suits them. A recent project I worked on was in part a rescue from the "parse disaster".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parse_(platform)

https://venturebeat.com/2016/02/03/facebook-never-wanted-to-host-your-app-the-real-reasons-it-shut-down-parse/

And, so, I shake my head as so many lemmings, er, companies and developers drink the React and React Native koolaide.

So, happy to de-Google. Though I still like Google Home, it has the best voice recognition and most useful query results. Much prefer over the Amazon order-bot speakers.

 

Yeah Google always had the best voice recognition until I got an 8" Alexa Show!

In my Gathering Room, about 20 x 40 feet we sit in the middle with TV at the east end. At the sides of the room, north and south walls, are an Alexa Echo II each. The Alexa Show is at the back of the room behind us on the west wall under the microwave shelf. That Show hears us, with the TV speakers pointing at it, behind our backs, bouncing off the TV or east wall, better than any other Alexa box!

Since I don;t like the sound of the voice coming out, being too bassy and muffled to understand (way worse than GH units but awesome music sound!) I moved the Show on top of a TV tower speaker. Now it will never hear us with the TV on. That thing still hears us over any other speaker to our sides. That Show can pick out our commands with the TV sound up loud, but all other Alexa units being completely deaf at those volumes.

Then we come home and enter into our garage entrance. We have an Echo 1 next to the mudroom to do leaving and coming controls, including turning on/off the alarm system. My wife does the usual Alexa...turn off the alarm system, right at the Echo four feet away ...and guess what?..the Show at the other end of the house, around a "L" shaped house structure, not visible from each other, about 60 feet away!, says "OK" .

That Alexa Show is scary! With it's supreme listening capabilities, I am shopping for another wedding band.

[jtara92101]

I installed the Ecobee 3 Lite.

- It turns out the 3 Lite does NOT have a built-in occupancy sensor. But of course it has temperature and humidity. It does sense a person walking by in order to turn on the display, though.

I think I can still get away with just two sensors, as I can place one in my office that would give an OK temperature indication for office and cover office, living room, and kitchen (my kitchen is a joke, I had to turn back of living room into kitchen storage) for occupancy. For the Keen air vents, I will associate with office vent. It also does not come with a sensor, but I knew that.

- I actually prefer the appearance over the Nest. One minor complaint - because of the shape, it is VERY sensitive to level installation for a critical eye. (I straighten pictures in doctor's waiting rooms! OK, not any more, since you don't wait any more, but text, knock, then they unlock the door...) I think with the round shape, you wouldn't notice so much if a Nest is slightly un-level. So far I have not managed to get the Ecobee installed level, the base squirms when I tighten the screws down. Plus I'll bet there is some psychology behind the rounded-square that makes us even MORE sensitive than to a square shape.

OTOH I had the Nest installed with an opps plate, and decided not to use one for the Ecobee. I'll do some minor wall repair later. There's a small hole to patch, and the border of some GIANT circular thermostat from the past. Maybe the oops plate from a traditional round Honeywell. I mean, it it YUGE! Way larger than a Honeywell! So, must have been the oops plate.

- So far, the temperate readings are accurate! They track with my Keen sensor and thermocouple meter. I did seal the wire hole with Museum Wax this time, something I hadn't thought to do.

- I had trouble registering. It turns out you cannot use special characters in your password when initially setting your password in the web interface. The error message un-helpfully tells you to contact support (without telling you how - no phone number, no nutin'), rather than simply telling you not to use special characters. I Googled for support number, and got somebody fairly quickly, I'd guess in Germany based on accent and time of day. He seemed familiar with the problem.

- The service alerts assume the world ends in 2018. What's up with that?! You can set a last service date between 2014 and 2018. So, worthless. Are 3 Lite's in fact repurposed very old devices? I will have to call support again.

- I tried installing the two sensors I got in a 2-pack. Could not detect either one. I did initially forget to scan the QR BEFORE removing the battery protect tab, but same thing with the second one, and then same thing with the procedure for "it didn't work". (Remove battery for 60 seconds, scan QR, install battery.) This was the last 2-pack at Home Depot, I guess my best bet here is to find another Home Depot that has them in stock. I don't think it was a go-back, as had intact outer wrap. Dead batteries? Protect tab install failure?

- I install the Ecobee NodeServer. I see there is nothing meaningful I can do by linking, I guess it is mainly useful in programs. I did open a new program to explore what is available to examine and set. Looks pretty complete. So, I can switch between schedules, much better than the horribly complicated way I used to have to program changes with the Venstar Insteon adapter. (Anybody need a Venstar Insteon adapter? LOL)

A few of the Ecobee settings

Dunno if I ought to set up seasonal schedules? I live in a 1927 high-rise with a huge thermal mass and single-pane glass that we are not allowed to change. (National Historic Register and California Mills Act property tax abatement. You pinky swear that you will not change the historic character, and apparently "wavy glass" is way more important than energy efficiency.) Construction is concerte-encased steel beams (I think fairly lightweight steel from pictures) with hollow terra-cotta brick curtain wall. Lots of brick in interior walls, they are kinda random. I have a brick wall between LR/office and BR, but can hear neighbors on other side of BR no brick. It was a hotel. They had to work with what they had to turn it into larger condo units. I think the designer was not so good at jigsaw puzzles.

I have a problem with afternoon sun. I need to install film at least, and will do that after much-needed window painting. Blinds with automation would be good, but I really prefer to keep the view. I'm thinking an AC setback based on sunlight intensity? So, lower temperature to compensate for direct radiated heat? Afternoons I jump up and adjust the thermostat, I think there has to be a smarter way than just reducing by a couple of degrees in the afternoon. (Alas, this is when "Wen", the stupid animated electrical outlet from SDG&E's TV commercials, wants us to use less energy...) If not from Ecobee weather, assume I can get that from one of the weather servers? (I see Climate Module has "light". There are many weather choices for node servers, oh my!)

[larryllix]

14 hours ago, jtara92101 said:

I installed the Ecobee 3 Lite.

- It turns out the 3 Lite does NOT have a built-in occupancy sensor. But of course it has temperature and humidity. It does sense a person walking by in order to turn on the display, though.

<snipped>

That is not correct on my ecobee3. The ecobee3 has an two sensors in the base unit as well as every remote sensor. The stat has a close proximity sensor as well as a room occupancy sensor.

[jtara92101]

10 hours ago, larryllix said:

That is not correct on my ecobee3. The ecobee3 has an two sensors in the base unit as well as every remote sensor.

I don't have an ecobee3, though. I have an ecobee3 lite. They pulled a fast one! But for $74 out the door after $75 in-store rebate, I'm not complaining.

The sensors I bought don't work. They aren't discovered. The batteries both read 3.16V so not dead batteries. Will call support and see what they have to say.

[larryllix]

43 minutes ago, jtara92101 said:

I don't have an ecobee3, though. I have an ecobee3 lite. They pulled a fast one! But for $74 out the door after $75 in-store rebate, I'm not complaining.

The sensors I bought don't work. They aren't discovered. The batteries both read 3.16V so not dead batteries. Will call support and see what they have to say.

Look like things have changed. When I bought my ecobee3 IIRC it as labelled "lite" but now it seems you are correct.
https://www.ecobee.com/en-ca/smart-thermostats/

 

[jtara92101]

Just got off phone with EcoBee support. I have to say they are very through.

1. There seems to be a bug in the web interface date selection for service reminders. I was able to set the service reminders to 2020 dates by using the interface on the Ecobee itself, and once done you can then use the web interface. If you use the web interface first, it may decided that the world ended in either March or July of 2018. (Inconsistent). There MAY be some drop-down elements that should be there and missing. I had to painfully use arrow forward/back to change month. This occurred on current Firefox and Chrome on macOS.

2. The Smart Sensors seem to need uPnP enabled on your router in order to pair. I usually leave this off. I was told can turn if off after pairing, since the sensors use Zigbee to talk to the thermostat, WiFi is used only for initial pairing.

[larryllix]

7 hours ago, jtara92101 said:

Just got off phone with EcoBee support. I have to say they are very through.

1. There seems to be a bug in the web interface date selection for service reminders. I was able to set the service reminders to 2020 dates by using the interface on the Ecobee itself, and once done you can then use the web interface. If you use the web interface first, it may decided that the world ended in either March or July of 2018. (Inconsistent). There MAY be some drop-down elements that should be there and missing. I had to painfully use arrow forward/back to change month. This occurred on current Firefox and Chrome on macOS.

2. The Smart Sensors seem to need uPnP enabled on your router in order to pair. I usually leave this off. I was told can turn if off after pairing, since the sensors use Zigbee to talk to the thermostat, WiFi is used only for initial pairing.

Strange. My sensors, once the battery insulation tab was pulled, got noticed by the closest thermostat and asked if I wanted to pair them. I entered no credentials or had to do anything else. It was totally between my stat and sensor.

Yeah uPnP is not a bad thing, but there are many bad rumours floating around based on the US government issuing an ignorant  warning, decades ago, and then having to retracting it the next year, once they realised it was wrong..

[jtara92101]

Disappointing to find that you cannot directly set any Comfort Setting other than Home or Away directly from either the device itself or app! So, for example, if you go to sleep early, there is no way to set Sleep.

Yet it is possible to choose a Comfort Setting via API and thus through the Ecobee NodeServer.

So, I see I can create a program to Set Ecobee - Thermostat Climate Type to Sleep.

Well, that's the theory, but it seems not to work at all. I created a program that sets the Climate Type to Sleep and manually ran the Then. Doesn't do anything. Same thing with Home/Away.

Confused about Climate Type vs. Comfort Setting. Are they two names for the same thing? It seems a bit muddled.

Also, I guess the NodeServer doesn't get the names of custom Comfort Settings/Climate Types. And there are several I don't recognize.

- Away

- Home

-  Sleep

- Smart1 through Smart7

- Vacation

- SmartAway

- SmartHome

- DemandResponse

- Unknown

- WakeUp

 

I created Work (I'm in my office) and Windows Open (don't want to run heat/cool with the windows open!). I see 1 and 2 next to them in the UI, so I guess these are Smart1 and Smart2. But don't seem to be able to activate them. And I set it to use bedroom sensor temp for Sleep, LR thermostat temp for Home, and office sensor temp for Work.

Not being able to set Climate Type/Comfort Setting on the device or app is not a deal breaker, since really my intention is to use window switches for Windows Open and a keypad button toggle for office occupancy. I'd like to do the latter actually for office, bedroom, and main area - I've done this before in another residence. The last button on keypad (I will swap from 6-button to 8-button) will be occupancy, just tap the button, and that room/area is occupied and the backlight lights up and other backlights turned off.

Oh, yea, one more thing - querying Ecobee - Thermostat in ISY gets a Request Failed popup.