gregoryx Posted September 20, 2009 Posted September 20, 2009 Sigh... all Insteon communication went to hell in a handbasket a couple of weeks ago. Worst it's ever been. Geez... I think it's worse than my X10 used to be! Nothing sticks out as having been changed - so it's likely an Insteon device or two "gone bad" or a non-Insteon device or two causing noise. The problem is that I've got 50 light switches and a couple of appliance and lamp devices. The switches seem pretty hard to diagnose to me. Add that my switches are mostly on their own breaker, with outlets on another breaker - and both mixed between 110 legs. In theory, it should all work out if I've got SignalLincs on both legs... and it used to... but it doesn't now. Any suggestions?
oah Posted September 20, 2009 Posted September 20, 2009 I would like to know how to efficiently debug also. Are there any tools available to pin point noise? I have a gang plate that consistently does not respond. I need to send commands numerous times for the scene to work. The rest of the house works ok. I have way too many devices, over 100, to diagnose individually. Though I use filterlincs, my house is too large with too many devices to ensure I catch all the noise without an efficient debug tool. The problem area is on the second floor. I have eight AP.
Michel Kohanim Posted September 20, 2009 Posted September 20, 2009 Hello gregory, The first thing I would do is: 1. Tools | Diagnostics | Event Viewer ... level 3 2. Tools | Diagnostics | PLM Status/Info Please look at the output of #1 to see if there is anything out of the ordinary. In some cases, when an INSTEON device goes bad, it will start emitting X10 addresses continuously and thus stops all communications. If your ISY cannot communicate with anything, #2 will let us know if the PLM is functioning properly. oah, In your case, I would suspect the signal is not getting to your gang plate. The first thing I would do is to install an Access Point on one of the outlets coming out of the gang plate. Next, I would like to know the firmware version of the devices you have in that scene. If you have SWL v.35 or KPL v.2C then some of these could also be explained. With kind regards, Michel
gregoryx Posted September 21, 2009 Author Posted September 21, 2009 Michel, Thank you for your prompt reply - as always! I should have been more specific: my current issues are general reliability issues - not at all specific to the ISY. The PLM passes fine. Hint number 1 was helpful - though I'm never quite sure what to look for. I also looked up old stuff that has the advice of turning off every breaker until communication gets better then checking every wire nut for loose connections. I reviewed all my APs and checked for filters and it's a wee bit better - but still not as it was. Is there any tools available yet to help diagnose problems? Identify weak signals and where they are coming from or not getting to? In the mean time, I will put getting an AP on each leg just off the panel to see if that helps. I suspect that is an important issue, given the complete division of lighting and outlets that goes back to the panel in every case. IOW, I can't currently get an AP on a lighting circuit. I'll see if I can get that done. Other advice? How to read the tea leaves in the log at level 3?
Michel Kohanim Posted September 21, 2009 Posted September 21, 2009 Hi gregoryx, My pleasure! Here's what I've found to work thus far. If you have breakers that divide the phases, it's always best to put the access points right there at the breaker. This way, the phases are bridged right at the breaker. As far as the Event Viewer, please let me know if you see any X10 traffic. If you do, then the best way to isolate and figure out what's causing the noise is to shutdown one breaker at a time. Also, if you have an ELK system, sometimes the dry contacts might be causing too much X10 traffic. The other tool is Scene Test. If you have a scene that persistently causes trouble, go to Tools | Diagnostics | Scene Test and see which one of the devices are not responding. Also, if you have a list of devices that do NOT respond, please make sure they are not SWL v.35 or KPL v1.5 (2c). Unfortunately, above and beyond trial and error, there's not much help I can offer. With kind regards, Michel
gregoryx Posted September 21, 2009 Author Posted September 21, 2009 Michel, I will get those APs in ASAP. It seems such an obvious thing, I guess I just never did it because it involves wiring of some sort - and I'm lazy. You mention SWL v.35 and KPL v1.5 (2c) again. Hmmm... I have: 10 SWL v.24 22 SWL v.35 4 KPL v.29 13 KPL v.2D Do tell what I might be looking for if these V.35s are of concern... I can have them replaced if necessary. =)
Michel Kohanim Posted September 22, 2009 Posted September 22, 2009 Hi gregoryx, Not all SWL v.35s are created equally so I might be completely off. The older versions of v.35 did in fact have sensitivity issues. So, what I recommend is using the Tools | Diagnostics | Scene Test for scenes containing these switches. Those that fail ofter irrespective of the Access Points - in my view - should be replaced. With kind regards, Michel Michel, I will get those APs in ASAP. It seems such an obvious thing, I guess I just never did it because it involves wiring of some sort - and I'm lazy. You mention SWL v.35 and KPL v1.5 (2c) again. Hmmm... I have: 10 SWL v.24 22 SWL v.35 4 KPL v.29 13 KPL v.2D Do tell what I might be looking for if these V.35s are of concern... I can have them replaced if necessary. =)
oah Posted September 23, 2009 Posted September 23, 2009 Thanks Michel The gang plate controls cieling light fixtures. I have two access points on the same wall as the gang plate. One of the SWL devices says v4.2 on the device but the ISY shows them all as v.35. The keypads show up in the ISY as v.2D. Any other suggestions? Hello gregory, The first thing I would do is: 1. Tools | Diagnostics | Event Viewer ... level 3 2. Tools | Diagnostics | PLM Status/Info Please look at the output of #1 to see if there is anything out of the ordinary. In some cases, when an INSTEON device goes bad, it will start emitting X10 addresses continuously and thus stops all communications. If your ISY cannot communicate with anything, #2 will let us know if the PLM is functioning properly. oah, In your case, I would suspect the signal is not getting to your gang plate. The first thing I would do is to install an Access Point on one of the outlets coming out of the gang plate. Next, I would like to know the firmware version of the devices you have in that scene. If you have SWL v.35 or KPL v.2C then some of these could also be explained. With kind regards, Michel
Michel Kohanim Posted September 23, 2009 Posted September 23, 2009 Hi oah, Would you be kind enough to run the Scene Test on scenes containing the problematic devices? (Tools | Diagnostics | Scene Test). With kind regards, Michel
oah Posted September 27, 2009 Posted September 27, 2009 I replaced two of the devices and the problem was resolved. They must have been bad. Unfortunately, now my PLM or ISY is dead. I can log into the ISY but when I check on the PLM status it reads as if its not connected. Commands sent from the ISY do nothing. The PLM light flashes when it hears insteon traffic from a KPL. How can I be certain which one is bad? Thank you for your help. Hi oah, Would you be kind enough to run the Scene Test on scenes containing the problematic devices? (Tools | Diagnostics | Scene Test). With kind regards, Michel
Michel Kohanim Posted September 27, 2009 Posted September 27, 2009 Hello oah, This is not good! Would you be kind enough to unplug your PLM for about 1 minute and then plug it back in? If that does not work, then please try: 1. Factory Reset your PLM (take the PLM out, leave out for 1 minute, push an hold the set button while unplugged for 10 seconds, and then plug it in while the set button is still held in for another 10 seconds) 2. Check and see if your ISY can control anything 3. If so, then do File | Restore Modem (PLM) If not, then I am almost certain the problem is the PLM. With kind regards, Michel I replaced two of the devices and the problem was resolved. They must have been bad. Unfortunately, now my PLM or ISY is dead. I can log into the ISY but when I check on the PLM status it reads as if its not connected. Commands sent from the ISY do nothing. The PLM light flashes when it hears insteon traffic from a KPL. How can I be certain which one is bad? Thank you for your help. Hi oah, Would you be kind enough to run the Scene Test on scenes containing the problematic devices? (Tools | Diagnostics | Scene Test). With kind regards, Michel
oah Posted September 28, 2009 Posted September 28, 2009 Ok I just tried those steps and nothing. I am going to request a replacement. Thanks
Michel Kohanim Posted September 29, 2009 Posted September 29, 2009 Hi oah, Please do keep us posted. With kind regards, Michel Ok I just tried those steps and nothing. I am going to request a replacement. Thanks
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