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ISY Scenes - Apply Changes to All Devices Button


matthewjocko

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Hello,

I recently setup an ISY 994i after not having one for 2 years and am getting used to the new changes that have taken place since I last used the platform.  I am having an issue where when I create a scene I have to manually change the response setting for each Insteon device that I want to control.  I am looking for the "apply changes to all devices" button but it seems to be removed.  Does anyone know of an easier way to do this besides individually changing the settings for each device or a way to re-enable the apply changes to all devices button?

 

Thanks,

Matt

Screen Shot 2020-06-16 at 12.08.17 AM.png

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  • 2 weeks later...
2 hours ago, matthewjocko said:

@lilyoyo1 wow crazy that universal devices would remove such an important functionality from their software. It is going to take so long to create scenes with 100+ devices now because of this change. Sad that there are no workarounds or others ways to automate this task. 

It's all about perspective. That 1 feature worked because there was a single common element... insteon. Now you can add zwave, hue, ecobee, harmony, lifx, and more to a scene....all of which requires their own specific coding in order to work properly. 

What it boils down to is whether you prefer to use 1 single protocol which is insteon or a multitude of disparate devices with your system. 

 

 

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13 minutes ago, gzahar said:

You could have it as an option for Insteon only scenes (and disabled if mixed).

 

^ This.  There should at least be some way to globally apply changes to a scene it seems silly that the programming team behind universal devices thought that their customers wouldn't notice such a huge loss in functionality.  If you have a significant number of devices in a scene this change makes it very difficult to modify those scenes.

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59 minutes ago, gzahar said:

You could have it as an option for Insteon only scenes (and disabled if mixed).

 

There is in a way. Its to stay on the 4.0 branch. Im not trying to be smart but the whole purpose of 5.0 is to integrate different things together along with nodeservers and such. If none of that interests a person then there is no need to be on it.

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20 minutes ago, lilyoyo1 said:

There is in a way. Its to stay on the 4.0 branch. Im not trying to be smart but the whole purpose of 5.0 is to integrate different things together along with nodeservers and such. If none of that interests a person then there is no need to be on it.

Agreed.  But this is kind of like removing the on level and ramp rate from the AC UI because all Zwave switches don't support those features.  And telling you to use parameter entry for that on Insteon switches because we want to support multiple technologies.  I get the time/effort/payback reasons if that is the case, but don't believe it is a technical issue.

I know this has hit the forum many times and there is no appearance it will be changed; so no need to really rehash it.  I don't use very many large scenes so not a big problem for me (but then maybe this is why?)

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There is in a way. Its to stay on the 4.0 branch. Im not trying to be smart but the whole purpose of 5.0 is to integrate different things together along with nodeservers and such. If none of that interests a person then there is no need to be on it.

Respectfully I don’t think that’s the “whole purpose” for everyone. I agree it’s huge and that may be the biggest leap “under the hood”. But the first thing I did with v5 was store current Insteon dimmer values as variables so I could restore the prior settings after an event - say an exterior door opening (e.g. brighten the lights then go back to what they were, not just turn them off or whatever). Next was thermostat heat set points for the garage where I change them more frequently (that said a literal sledgehammer is probably what the Insteon thermostat needs).

 

Like others I miss this functionality. Thanks for pointing out the “add controllers last” bit as it certainly helps. Fortunately for me all of my scenes were set up in v4...

 

Edit I’m mostly Insteon. No z-wave and haven’t played with any “mixed scenes” yet as I haven’t had the need yet.

 

 

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19 minutes ago, gzahar said:

Agreed.  But this is kind of like removing the on level and ramp rate from the AC UI because all Zwave switches don't support those features.  And telling you to use parameter entry for that on Insteon switches because we want to support multiple technologies.  I get the time/effort/payback reasons if that is the case, but don't believe it is a technical issue.

I know this has hit the forum many times and there is no appearance it will be changed; so no need to really rehash it.  I don't use very many large scenes so not a big problem for me (but then maybe this is why?)

It has been on here and Michel has given the technical reasons as to why (but when someone wants something then the reasons doesn't matter).

While I get your example, it's far from being the same in that they didn't remove device capabilities. The 4.0 insteon only setup is akin to carrying around a palm pda, pocket camera, mp3 player, gps system and phone. We gave up battery life, privacy, and a host of other things to package all of those technologies into 1 package. This is what 5.0 is. 

5.0 is their future and bringing multiple technologies under 1 roof. In doing so, some features were lost in the process in order to achieve that. Looking at UDI's history, I can promise that decision probably hurt when it was made. However, to keep people interested in their controller and to keep up with the trends, it had to be made. 

Due to various reasons, that feature never mattered to me. However, I would glad give that up to do what I'm doing now. In some scenes, I'm using up to 8 different technologies. Things I wouldn't have been able to do with the 4.0 branch without doing 10x the work and twice the money (and that's if I was successful). 

 

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11 minutes ago, TrojanHorse said:

Respectfully I don’t think that’s the “whole purpose” for everyone. I agree it’s huge and that may be the biggest leap “under the hood”. But the first thing I did with v5 was store current Insteon dimmer values as variables so I could restore the prior settings after an event - say an exterior door opening (e.g. brighten the lights then go back to what they were, not just turn them off or whatever). Next was thermostat heat set points for the garage where I change them more frequently (that said a literal sledgehammer is probably what the Insteon thermostat needs).

 

Like others I miss this functionality. Thanks for pointing out the “add controllers last” bit as it certainly helps. Fortunately for me all of my scenes were set up in v4...

 

Edit I’m mostly Insteon. No z-wave and haven’t played with any “mixed scenes” yet as I haven’t had the need yet.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I get that. There's more to 5.0 than what I said. I was just speaking on the major parts of it which effects that particular feature. All in all, the newer adopted features  such as what you're doing greatly overshadows what has been loss when viewed in totality. 

When you do start mixing things that required network resources such as Sonos, hue, and AV equipment, you'll see how much more time you save than you would've doing the the old way

 

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I get that. There's more to 5.0 than what I said. I was just speaking on the major parts of it which effects that particular feature. All in all, the newer adopted features  such as what you're doing greatly overshadows what has been loss when viewed in totality. 
When you do start mixing things that required network resources such as Sonos, hue, and AV equipment, you'll see how much more time you save than you would've doing the the old way
 

Fair point. What I did with “prior value” variables in v5 would have required hundreds of programs to do properly (and as many hours probably to make sure), and maybe a hundred to hack it. So I guess it’s worth it on balance then to accomplish what we now can do.

That said, as a non-programmer professional who dives deep sometimes, the files that I see in the backups appear simple. Would be cool if someone could develop a “plugin” ?!? that would provide the code to allow someone to edit their all-Insteon scene as they did previously. I’d pay for another module!!


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3 hours ago, lilyoyo1 said:

It has been on here and Michel has given the technical reasons as to why (but when someone wants something then the reasons doesn't matter).

While I get your example, it's far from being the same in that they didn't remove device capabilities. The 4.0 insteon only setup is akin to carrying around a palm pda, pocket camera, mp3 player, gps system and phone. We gave up battery life, privacy, and a host of other things to package all of those technologies into 1 package. This is what 5.0 is. 

5.0 is their future and bringing multiple technologies under 1 roof. In doing so, some features were lost in the process in order to achieve that. Looking at UDI's history, I can promise that decision probably hurt when it was made. However, to keep people interested in their controller and to keep up with the trends, it had to be made. 

Due to various reasons, that feature never mattered to me. However, I would glad give that up to do what I'm doing now. In some scenes, I'm using up to 8 different technologies. Things I wouldn't have been able to do with the 4.0 branch without doing 10x the work and twice the money (and that's if I was successful). 

 

@lilyoyo1 There is no need to disable previous functionality for v5 to work properly.  It would have been trivial to add a button that applies specific changes globally for a certain device type such as lighting or specifically Insteon devices or all devices matching a certain criteria. This is a feature that I am sure would be used by many as a lot of people have voiced complaints about this feature being omitted. You also mention the possibility of staying on the 4.0 branch but when I received my device it was already on v5.  If I had known of this crippling limitation I would have second guessed my ISY purchase.  It also seems silly to disregard all the other positive changes that were made in v5 and downgrade to v4.

 

Although, there is no need to harp on the past because there is little chance that universal devices will add this feature back since it looks like they have intentionally removed it.  @TrojanHorse I as well would love to see a plugin developed and would 100% be willing to pay for this functionality.  Unfortunately I don't have the time currently to do this or I would build the plugin myself.  Hopefully someone will make this a possibility.

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4 hours ago, matthewjocko said:

@lilyoyo1 There is no need to disable previous functionality for v5 to work properly.  It would have been trivial to add a button that applies specific changes globally for a certain device type such as lighting or specifically Insteon devices or all devices matching a certain criteria. This is a feature that I am sure would be used by many as a lot of people have voiced complaints about this feature being omitted. You also mention the possibility of staying on the 4.0 branch but when I received my device it was already on v5.  If I had known of this crippling limitation I would have second guessed my ISY purchase.  It also seems silly to disregard all the other positive changes that were made in v5 and downgrade to v4.

 

Although, there is no need to harp on the past because there is little chance that universal devices will add this feature back since it looks like they have intentionally removed it.  @TrojanHorse I as well would love to see a plugin developed and would 100% be willing to pay for this functionality.  Unfortunately I don't have the time currently to do this or I would build the plugin myself.  Hopefully someone will make this a possibility.

I'm not a programmer so I can't speak on the programming aspect of things.  I do know historically UDI hasn't been one to remove features unless bogs the system down or makes it unstable. Who knows, once the isy994 is EOL and they come out with 6.0 (along with new programming language it's something that could potentially come back. If any programmers know how to program it in without destabilizing things, I'm sure UDI would love to hear from them. 

If you're not far into your programming and don't need zwave (if you have the zwave version), you can remove the zwave board and downgrade to 4.8

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3 hours ago, lilyoyo1 said:

If you're not far into your programming and don't need zwave (if you have the zwave version), you can remove the zwave board and downgrade to 4.8

and replace your flat screen with a  b&w tv ?

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