Release 5.2.0 (RC3) - OUTDATED

[lilyoyo1]

39 minutes ago, cactus said:

1. So how about someone actually ANSWERING the question "how do I find out what zwave module I have?"?  Someone asked and rather than saying how to find out the reply was that THAT PERSON'S Zwave is 300. So now I have to ask also, how do I check?  (HINT: MAYBE PUT THIS IN THE UPGRADE INSTRUCTIONS SINCE THIS IS APPARENTLY IMPORTANT!)  Mine says "Z-Wave: 21100" in the about box.

2. If I have a 300 module, does this mean upgrading to RC3 will render my Zwave devices inoperable? After waiting YEARS FOR A FINAL 5.0 RELEASE?? Ugh.

3. If I have a 300 module, does this mean I am limited to running RC2 until I upgrade Zwave dongle and live with the Elk bugs in that version?

4. If I upgrade to the 500 module and RC3, will my existing Zwave devices still work (many of which I assume to be 300 since I've had many for over 3 years)?

I am thankful that after YEARS OF WAITING a final version 5 release is on the horizon, assuming of course that the release candidate stage doesn't also go on for several years also...

I'm assuming you DID NOT read the posts because it WAS answered.

1) The response said the 300 board has a blue light sticking out of the isy and the 500 does not.

2, 3, &4) has been answered multiple times on page 2 and 3.

 

Edited August 28, 2020 by lilyoyo1

[blueman2]

49 minutes ago, cactus said:

1. So how about someone actually ANSWERING the question "how do I find out what zwave module I have?"?  Someone asked and rather than saying how to find out the reply was that THAT PERSON'S Zwave is 300. So now I have to ask also, how do I check?  (HINT: MAYBE PUT THIS IN THE UPGRADE INSTRUCTIONS SINCE THIS IS APPARENTLY IMPORTANT!)  Mine says "Z-Wave: 21100" in the about box.

It is a bit confusing, yes.  Two ways to verify:

1) Look at the rear of your ISY.  Is there a blue LED to the right of Port A?  If there is, you have 300.  If not, and you have a z-wave board installed, then it is Series 500

2) Use Admin Console.  Click on "Z-Wave | Z-Wave Version".  Or depending on your current ISY software, it might be "Z-Wave | Advanced | Z-Wave Firmware Version"  If it says 6.81.00, you have a Series 500 board.  If it says 4.55 or lower, you have Series 300 board.  The "Z-Wave: 21100" you refer to has nothing to do with the board, but rather is the ISY z-wave software module product number.  

Edited August 28, 2020 by blueman2

[cactus]

2 minutes ago, hart2hart said:

1. 300 series Zwave board has a blue led on back of case. You can also look at AC under zwave and their is a number that tells you.

2. You should stay with 5.0.16 rc1 until you upgrade board to 500 series

3. See above, 5.1 RC2 and 5.2 RC3 are not recommend with 300 series board. Many people had terrible migration issues issues from 5.0.x versions.

4. You should upgrade to 500 series board before you move to 5.1 or 5.2

1. My ISY is inside an electrical cabinet, behind an equipment rack, in a closet...so physical access is a PITA. However I do seem to recall a blue LED on it. I don't know what "AC under Zwave" means. On the about it says "Z-Wave: 21100" (which I stated) but I see no guidance from UDI on how to interpret that.

2-3 I'm fine with 5.0.16rc1 I suppose... I'm on 4.8 now, what kinds of migration issues will I encounter? I have avoided all forks of 5.0 because of the "beta" label implications of "not being ready for prime time"

I get that a lot of people on here like to tinker with this stuff infinitely and home automation is their "hobby"... I used to be that way to a certain extent. But now I have plenty of other "hobbies" and enough going on that I can't dedicate hours and hours to this. I just need something stable that "just works." This used to be that. I do wish I had never began using Zwave devices because they'e been nothing but trouble and when the ISY wigs out nothing works EXCEPT my Insteon direct-linked devices. For as much trouble as I've had with failed insteon modules I will say when they work, they work... Now I've had Zwave devices long enough to have some fail and 2 wall switches have failed in a mode where they rapidly switch the load output on-off continuously until I cut power. Not the greatest failure mode behavior.

[asbril]

3 minutes ago, lilyoyo1 said:

I am thankful that after YEARS OF WAITING a final version 5 release is on the horizon, assuming of course that the release candidate stage doesn't also go on for several years also...

Respectfully,  I am surprised by comments like this.  5.0.X has been performing well for me almost from the beginning and usually an upgrade just brings new features. A few times an update with new features actually created some issues which were then addressed in the following update. In fact for me 5.1.0 did not work and I went back to 5.0.16 before installing 5.2.0 which works great.

As someone else commented, for most of us 5.1.0 and 5.2.0 are like 5.0.17 and 5.0.18 . It is not about the numbers but about the ISY working fine.

What I am trying to say is that it is not worth waiting for the final release before updating your ISY. Assuming, just to make the point, that 5.3 is the final release, I doubt that you will find major differences, while staying on 4.X and waiting for final release of 5 means losing out on major features that have been working fine since the early stages of 5.0.X

[cactus]

9 minutes ago, lilyoyo1 said:

I'm assuming you DID NOT read the posts because it WAS answered.

1) The response said the 300 board has a blue light sticking out of the isy and the 500 does not.

2, 3, &4) has been answered multiple times on page 2 and 3.

 

1. See my previous reply. ISY physically not accessible to me.

2-4. I don't have time to wade through page after page of replies in the hopes my questions are answered. My hope would be UDI would be professional enough to cover this pertinent info in the announcement post. Item 4 in particular could be easy to some up by someone in the know...

5 minutes ago, blueman2 said:

It is a bit confusing, yes.  Two ways to verify:

1) Look at the rear of your ISY.  Is there a blue LED to the right of Port A?  If there is, you have 300.  If not, and you have a z-wave board installed, then it is Series 500

2) Use Admin Console.  Click on "Z-Wave | Z-Wave Version".  Or depending on your current ISY software, it might be "Z-Wave | Advanced | Z-Wave Firmware Version"  If it says 6.81.00, you have a Series 500 board.  If it says 4.55 or lower, you have Series 300 board.  

1. See above

2. THIS is the MOST USEFUL INFORMATION. THANK YOU!!!!!!!  If only that was in the UDI announcement in the first place, it would have saved a lot of effort. I have 4.55 so now to investigate getting the 500 upgrade.

So remaining question, if I get the 500 module will my existing 300 devices still work or are they garbage?

Contrary to popular opinion, new technology should not automatically obsolete everything that came before it. That's a notion perpetuated by marketing & advertising, "planned obsolescence" engineering, and our "throw away" society. But that is a soapbox for another forum...

[hart2hart]

1. My ISY is inside an electrical cabinet, behind an equipment rack, in a closet...so physical access is a PITA. However I do seem to recall a blue LED on it. I don't know what "AC under Zwave" means. On the about it says "Z-Wave: 21100" (which I stated) but I see no guidance from UDI on how to interpret that.
2-3 I'm fine with 5.0.16rc1 I suppose... I'm on 4.8 now, what kinds of migration issues will I encounter? I have avoided all forks of 5.0 because of the "beta" label implications of "not being ready for prime time"
I get that a lot of people on here like to tinker with this stuff infinitely and home automation is their "hobby"... I used to be that way to a certain extent. But now I have plenty of other "hobbies" and enough going on that I can't dedicate hours and hours to this. I just need something stable that "just works." This used to be that. I do wish I had never began using Zwave devices because they'e been nothing but trouble and when the ISY wigs out nothing works EXCEPT my Insteon direct-linked devices. For as much trouble as I've had with failed insteon modules I will say when they work, they work... Now I've had Zwave devices long enough to have some fail and 2 wall switches have failed in a mode where they rapidly switch the load output on-off continuously until I cut power. Not the greatest failure mode behavior.

Blue man in post above gave the number to look for in AC administration Console.

The move from 4.8 to 5.0.16 requires planning and time dedication. The technology has changed a lot in last several years. UDI is working to get you there but it can’t be painless migration between 4 and 5.

I’ve been on 5.0.15 for about a year and it’s fantastic. I posted a how to guide which I’ll locate and point to in the next post.

[cactus]

3 minutes ago, asbril said:

Respectfully,  I am surprised by comments like this.  5.0.X has been performing well for me almost from the beginning and usually an upgrade just brings new features. A few times an update with new features actually created some issues which were then addressed in the following update. In fact for me 5.1.0 did not work and I went back to 5.0.16 before installing 5.2.0 which works great.

As someone else commented, for most of us 5.1.0 and 5.2.0 are like 5.0.17 and 5.0.18 . It is not about the numbers but about the ISY working fine.

What I am trying to say is that it is not worth waiting for the final release before updating your ISY. Assuming, just to make the point, that 5.3 is the final release, I doubt that you will find major differences, while staying on 4.X and waiting for final release of 5 means losing out on major features that have been working fine since the early stages of 5.0.X

Well reading pages and pages of responses of previous 5 releases showed problems. Heck even in rc3 they are still fixing problems (something about elk conditions not evaluating. I do not want to be a beta tester, I DEPEND on my stuff to work... So when it comes to life/safety systems in my house my rule is NO BETA SOFTWARE. Likewise for my clients who (unfortunately) I have recommended ISY devices for in the past (which I stopped doing after the 2nd year of "BETA" 5.0). So while it was in beta I wasn't going to risk problems with things not working at my house while I was away and couldn't correct it. Now that it is FINALLY to release candidate stage I can consider it. So please excuse me for not having followed literally HUNDREDS OF PAGES of posts between the first 5.0 beta and today. I actually have a life and responsibilities and do not have the time to waste (BTW, I did spend a couple of days last Xmas tryiing to read those posts but after 2 days of reading/scrolling I had to get back to the REAL WORLD.

[hart2hart]

Task list to migrate from 4.x to 5.0.15/16


https://forum.universal-devices.com/topic/26381-upgrade-from-473-to-5015a-task-list/?tab=comments#comment-262367

Or search for my posts in TapaTalk Upgrade from 4.7.3 to 5.0.15A task list.

[cactus]

18 minutes ago, hart2hart said:

Blue man in post above gave the number to look for in AC administration Console.

The move from 4.8 to 5.0.16 requires planning and time dedication. The technology has changed a lot in last several years. UDI is working to get you there but it can’t be painless migration between 4 and 5.

I’ve been on 5.0.15 for about a year and it’s fantastic. I posted a how to guide which I’ll locate and point to in the next post.

Thank you now I know "AC" means Administrative Console. I ruled out Air Conditioning or Alternating Current, but otherwise had no clue. However in my first post if stated I went into About and listed the Z-Wave number it showed.

Fantastic or not, people still reported problems and it WAS STILL A FRAKKIN BETA RELEASE!

NO BETA RELEASES ARE ACCEPTABLE FOR LIFE SAFETY.

NO BETA RELEASES ARE ACCEPTABLE FOR PAYING CUSTOMERS WITH MILLIONS OF DOLLARS OF MACHINERY AT STAKE.

You people forget not everyone is a "home automation hobbyist" some of us can't risk it screwing up.

If it was so "GREAT" why still in Beta after 3-4 (lost count) years?!?!?!

Edited August 28, 2020 by cactus

[cactus]

5 minutes ago, hart2hart said:

Task list to migrate from 4.x to 5.0.15/16


https://forum.universal-devices.com/topic/26381-upgrade-from-473-to-5015a-task-list/?tab=comments#comment-262367

Or search for my posts in TapaTalk Upgrade from 4.7.3 to 5.0.15A task list.

Thank you, I will study that this evening. I have to get back to work now.  At some point I also have to research why everytime I start "AC" as you all like to call it, it gives me an error and closes but if I launch it second time it comes right up. Also occationally get some "Java unsigned" error (maybe 1 in 5 launches). Also need to find out why I have these 2 enerwave Zwave outlets that continually report communication errors in "AC" but yet otherwise seem to work fine. I wish I had the time to make this my fulltime job, but i just do not and its VERY frustrating.

Edited August 28, 2020 by cactus

[asbril]

5 minutes ago, cactus said:

Well reading pages and pages of responses of previous 5 releases showed problems. Heck even in rc3 they are still fixing problems (something about elk conditions not evaluating. I do not want to be a beta tester, I DEPEND on my stuff to work... So when it comes to life/safety systems in my house my rule is NO BETA SOFTWARE. Likewise for my clients who (unfortunately) I have recommended ISY devices for in the past (which I stopped doing after the 2nd year of "BETA" 5.0). So while it was in beta I wasn't going to risk problems with things not working at my house while I was away and couldn't correct it. Now that it is FINALLY to release candidate stage I can consider it. So please excuse me for not having followed literally HUNDREDS OF PAGES of posts between the first 5.0 beta and today. I actually have a life and responsibilities and do not have the time to waste (BTW, I did spend a couple of days last Xmas tryiing to read those posts but after 2 days of reading/scrolling I had to get back to the REAL WORLD.

I respect your viewpoint and I understand your use is professional, which is different. However,  I can not imagine myself not using 5.X until final version and losing out on the nodeservers that have made a huge difference for me.

[lilyoyo1]

10 minutes ago, cactus said:

1. My ISY is inside an electrical cabinet, behind an equipment rack, in a closet...so physical access is a PITA. However I do seem to recall a blue LED on it. I don't know what "AC under Zwave" means. On the about it says "Z-Wave: 21100" (which I stated) but I see no guidance from UDI on how to interpret that.

2-3 I'm fine with 5.0.16rc1 I suppose... I'm on 4.8 now, what kinds of migration issues will I encounter? I have avoided all forks of 5.0 because of the "beta" label implications of "not being ready for prime time"

I get that a lot of people on here like to tinker with this stuff infinitely and home automation is their "hobby"... I used to be that way to a certain extent. But now I have plenty of other "hobbies" and enough going on that I can't dedicate hours and hours to this. I just need something stable that "just works." This used to be that. I do wish I had never began using Zwave devices because they'e been nothing but trouble and when the ISY wigs out nothing works EXCEPT my Insteon direct-linked devices. For as much trouble as I've had with failed insteon modules I will say when they work, they work... Now I've had Zwave devices long enough to have some fail and 2 wall switches have failed in a mode where they rapidly switch the load output on-off continuously until I cut power. Not the greatest failure mode behavior.

Being that your stuff is behind an equipment rack and inside an electrical cabinet it's no wonder zwave has been a pain. It's rf only so you probably have a weak signal to/from the isy.

Your zwave firmware can also tell you what you have as 4.55 is for 300 and 6 something is for the 500 series chip.

For the most part there is always a beta when it comes to the isy. Not every release (back in the 3.0 and 4.0) days is official. Sometimes releases are made (beta) just to update the device database.

There are quite a few posts detailing others experienced with upgrading the isy and issues theyve come across. This can be found in on the beta subforum as well. The main thing is backup your isy and zwave board (zwave is a separate backup) and have a copy of your programs to reference just in case they need to be re-saved or edited (will be in yellow)

[lilyoyo1]

11 minutes ago, cactus said:

Well reading pages and pages of responses of previous 5 releases showed problems. Heck even in rc3 they are still fixing problems (something about elk conditions not evaluating. I do not want to be a beta tester, I DEPEND on my stuff to work... So when it comes to life/safety systems in my house my rule is NO BETA SOFTWARE. Likewise for my clients who (unfortunately) I have recommended ISY devices for in the past (which I stopped doing after the 2nd year of "BETA" 5.0). So while it was in beta I wasn't going to risk problems with things not working at my house while I was away and couldn't correct it. Now that it is FINALLY to release candidate stage I can consider it. So please excuse me for not having followed literally HUNDREDS OF PAGES of posts between the first 5.0 beta and today. I actually have a life and responsibilities and do not have the time to waste (BTW, I did spend a couple of days last Xmas tryiing to read those posts but after 2 days of reading/scrolling I had to get back to the REAL WORLD.

I've been using 5.0 in homes (where I went with isy) since 5.0.8 without any issues. Some of those systems are still on the older firmwares (I don't upgrade unless it's needed for something specific or I'm on location for something else)

People come on forums when they need help not when everything is running perfectly which is why you'll see the forums filled with issues. It's just the nature of the beast. The good thing is all of those people received help so you have a point of reference before upgrading and should you run into issues. That also goes to show that many more didn't have problems....at least none that weren't expected due to previous research. 

[cactus]

6 minutes ago, lilyoyo1 said:

Being that your stuff is behind an equipment rack and inside an electrical cabinet it's no wonder zwave has been a pain. It's rf only so you probably have a weak signal to/from the isy.

Your zwave firmware can also tell you what you have as 4.55 is for 300 and 6 something is for the 500 series chip.

For the most part there is always a beta when it comes to the isy. Not every release (back in the 3.0 and 4.0) days is official. Sometimes releases are made (beta) just to update the device database.

There are quite a few posts detailing others experienced with upgrading the isy and issues theyve come across. This can be found in on the beta subforum as well. The main thing is backup your isy and zwave board (zwave is a separate backup) and have a copy of your programs to reference just in case they need to be re-saved or edited (will be in yellow)

I use the "external antenna" option, with the Zwave antenna mounted outside of the enclosures at the top, above the rack. Nice to ASSume what you dont know.

The "problems" I've had are with Zwave devices dying, having to rebuild the database, and the way devices sometimes "disappear" from programs when changes are made. Other than the 2 enerwave devices I do not have communications errors on the zwave side. Insteon is another matter, but that seems to just be a "pre-failure" symptom of insteon modules. As soon as I see an Insteon taking several attempts to "write updates" I know it's going to be dead within 1-6 months.

So on the Zwave 500 board I don't see an external antenna port...does that mean the option has been removed? So to run 500 I lose option of pre 5 firmware and external antenna, but if I keep 300 I can't run a "final release" v5?

What a nightmare it is to wade through all this.

[cactus]

3 minutes ago, lilyoyo1 said:

I've been using 5.0 in homes (where I went with isy) since 5.0.8 without any issues. Some of those systems are still on the older firmwares (I don't upgrade unless it's needed for something specific or I'm on location for something else)

People come on forums when they need help not when everything is running perfectly which is why you'll see the forums filled with issues. It's just the nature of the beast. The good thing is all of those people received help so you have a point of reference before upgrading and should you run into issues. That also goes to show that many more didn't have problems....at least none that weren't expected due to previous research. 

Your model may be to let customers be beta testers but I have enough respect for my clients (and my reputation) not to risk it without a very specific need case, which hasn't existed.

[hart2hart]

Thank you now I know "AC" means Administrative Console. I ruled out Air Conditioning or Alternating Current, but otherwise had no clue. However in my first post if stated I went into About and listed the Z-Wave number it showed.

Fantastic or not, people still reported problems and it WAS STILL A FRAKKIN BETA RELEASE!

NO BETA RELEASES ARE ACCEPTABLE FOR LIFE SAFETY.

NO BETA RELEASES ARE ACCEPTABLE FOR PAYING CUSTOMERS WITH MILLIONS OF DOLLARS OF MACHINERY AT STAKE.

You people forget not everyone is a "home automation hobbyist" some of us can't risk it screwing up.

If it was so "GREAT" why still in Beta after 3-4 (lost count) years?!?!?!

Respectfully, you need to tone down the attitude. People want to help you but not if you keep lashing out at them. I for one am done providing assistance until you at least acknowledge you are asking for direction and not looking to yell at anything aimed to give you a place to start.

 

I hope you treat your customers with more respect

[lilyoyo1]

19 minutes ago, cactus said:

Thank you now I know "AC" means Administrative Console. I ruled out Air Conditioning or Alternating Current, but otherwise had no clue. However in my first post if stated I went into About and listed the Z-Wave number it showed.

Fantastic or not, people still reported problems and it WAS STILL A FRAKKIN BETA RELEASE!

NO BETA RELEASES ARE ACCEPTABLE FOR LIKE SAFETY.

NO BETA RELEASES ARE ACCEPTABLE FOR PAYING CUSTOMERS WILL MILLIONS OF DOLLARS OF MACHINERY AT STAKE.

You people forget not everyone is a "home automation hobbyist" some of us can't risk it screwing up.

If it was so "GREAT" why still in Beta after 3-4 (lost count) years?!?!?!

If you're using the isy to watch over machines worth millions is a mistake and a half. There are much much much better alternatives out there. Much more costly yes but when you're talking about millions it's worth the investment. The isy was meant for homes and to a certain degree small office type situations not industrial or critical situations.

Not everyone on here is a hobbyist. For some of us, we do install the system as a low cost alternative for our customers as we realize not everyone has 60k laying around to simply turn off lights. This allows us to expand our clientele to people who otherwise may not be able to afford or desire to pay what it would cost for something else.

It's still in beta because of keeping everyone on the old setup and charging people for a new system (once released), they are giving their end users a chance to take advantage of their future system (for free) during the development process. 

[hart2hart]

If you're using the isy to watch over machines worth millions is a mistake and a half. There are much much much better alternatives out there. Much more costly yes but when you're talking about millions it's worth the investment. The isy was meant for homes and to a certain degree small office type situations not industrial or critical situations.
Not everyone on here is a hobbyist. For some of us, we do install the system as a low cost alternative for our customers as we realize not everyone has 60k laying around to simply turn off lights. This allows us to expand our clientele to people who otherwise may not be able to afford or desire to pay what it would cost for something else.
It's still in beta because of keeping everyone on the old setup and charging people for a new system (once released), they are giving their end users a chance to take advantage of their future system (for free) during the development process. 

Well said!

[lilyoyo1]

2 hours ago, cactus said:

 

 

2 hours ago, cactus said:

Your model may be to let customers be beta testers but I have enough respect for my clients (and my reputation) not to risk it without a very specific need case, which hasn't existed.

My model is to dedicate time to knowing my business and products I'm using. This means keeping up with what is going on, how stuff works (or doesn't), and what works best for a particular situation. That way when I offer something to a client, I can under promise and over deliver every time. Would I use 5.2 right now in an install? No. I haven't tested it nor ran it long enough in my own home to do so. At the same time I would do the same with C4 as well. Just because something says "official" doesn't mean it's bug free. 

Edited August 28, 2020 by lilyoyo1

[asbril]

57 minutes ago, cactus said:

The main thing is backup your isy and zwave board (zwave is a separate backup) and have a copy of your programs to reference just in case they need to be re-saved or edited (will be in yellow)

If people follow this advise then there is no reason not to go to 5.X

[drich]

With all of the Z-Wave changes in this release, is there a way to include a secure device w/o security? I have a couple of Z-Wave light bulbs that have issues when included securely. The vendor tells me they will work better (and generate about 1/3 as much Z-Wave traffic) if I include them as non-secure devices. However, if I disable "Allow secure devices" in the ISY admin UI, it refuses to include the device at all.

[lilyoyo1]

26 minutes ago, drich said:

With all of the Z-Wave changes in this release, is there a way to include a secure device w/o security? I have a couple of Z-Wave light bulbs that have issues when included securely. The vendor tells me they will work better (and generate about 1/3 as much Z-Wave traffic) if I include them as non-secure devices. However, if I disable "Allow secure devices" in the ISY admin UI, it refuses to include the device at all.

From my experience, companies that allow both have different methods for including a device as S2 and non S2. I'd ask if they have separate procedures for what you're trying to do. 

Edited August 28, 2020 by lilyoyo1

[Whitehambone]

When I saw the note in the 5.1.0 release about needing the 500 Series Z-Wave board, I quickly purchased one.  Of course, that means I miss the discount, but that is ok.  

The upgrade was as smooth as silk.  I first followed the instruction and upgraded the Z-Wave board, and once I confirmed that everything was working, I upgraded to 5.2.0.  I find that doing a right-click on the My Programs folder and Copy Folder to Clipboard can be very useful if you run into programs with issues (in Yellow).  I just paste into Notepad and save it with the normal backup.

A big Thanks to all at Universal Devices for the continued improvements!  I am excited to see what my Polisy Pro will do in the future.

[glarsen]

Upgraded to 5.2.0 with no issues.  I have many Insteon and a few ZWave devices, both Plus and non.  With the exception of having to "Update Neighbors" on one of the non-plus locks, everything seems to work fine.  All 12 of my Polisy based nodeservers and both of my often-problematic cloud nodeservers recovered without any intervention.

Thanks for a seamless update. (BTW, I have noticed since 5.1.0 that my locks have reduced their battery use ..haven't measured exactly how much, but it's noticeable)

Edited August 29, 2020 by glarsen

[jwagner010]

On 8/27/2020 at 8:48 AM, io_guy said:

 

I see how to get to the feature, that’s very clear, but that wasn’t the question. The question is what does it do?