Benefits of Z Wave Devices versus Insteon?

[GDavis01]

I have been using Insteon only devices for numerous years with my 2 ISY's (home and vacation home). The recent release of v.5.2.0 (RC3) seems to be primarily driven by Z Wave devices. I am currently on release v.5.0.16C and it appears that the new release does little or nothing for me. However, it did make me wonder if I should be considering adding Z Wave devices to my network. After a little research on the devices, Z Wave products look to be cheaper and there are more manufacturers than Insteon!

My questions:

- for those that have chosen to add Z Wave devices to their network, was it Price? Availability? or Features? Or put another way... Why did you choose Z Wave over Insteon?

- I have 2 ISY 994i/IR PRO controllers... do I need to change controllers  (to ISY9941 ZW+/IR PRO) or can my controllers be upgraded to handle Z Wave Plus by buying the External Z-Wave PLUS Module (although the description for this module states "Use this module in case you have Zigbee module installed inside your ISY994" which I don't believe I have!)

- As I understand it, Z Wave communications do not use RF or power line signals, that Insteon devices use, so if I add Z Wave devices, to my network, their communications would have to stand on their own... roughly, how many Z Wave devices are required in a home (say 3,000 to 4,000 sq ft) to make a reliable network? As an example, if I only install one Z Wave Plus lock on a back door at the other end of the house from where the controller sits will the communications work?

- Are there any other key factors I should consider with respect to adding Z Wave Plus devices?

 

 

 

[asbril]

55 minutes ago, GDavis01 said:

I have been using Insteon only devices for numerous years with my 2 ISY's (home and vacation home). The recent release of v.5.2.0 (RC3) seems to be primarily driven by Z Wave devices. I am currently on release v.5.0.16C and it appears that the new release does little or nothing for me. However, it did make me wonder if I should be considering adding Z Wave devices to my network. After a little research on the devices, Z Wave products look to be cheaper and there are more manufacturers than Insteon!

My questions:

- for those that have chosen to add Z Wave devices to their network, was it Price? Availability? or Features? Or put another way... Why did you choose Z Wave over Insteon?

- I have 2 ISY 994i/IR PRO controllers... do I need to change controllers  (to ISY9941 ZW+/IR PRO) or can my controllers be upgraded to handle Z Wave Plus by buying the External Z-Wave PLUS Module (although the description for this module states "Use this module in case you have Zigbee module installed inside your ISY994" which I don't believe I have!)

- As I understand it, Z Wave communications do not use RF or power line signals, that Insteon devices use, so if I add Z Wave devices, to my network, their communications would have to stand on their own... roughly, how many Z Wave devices are required in a home (say 3,000 to 4,000 sq ft) to make a reliable network? As an example, if I only install one Z Wave Plus lock on a back door at the other end of the house from where the controller sits will the communications work?

- Are there any other key factors I should consider with respect to adding Z Wave Plus devices?

 

 

 

Let me try to answer your questions as best as I can.

- for those that have chosen to add Z Wave devices to their network, was it Price? Availability? or Features? Or put another way... Why did you choose Z Wave over Insteon?

I changed from Insteon to Zwave when my PLM stopped working.  Now I have more than 70 Zwave devices and no longer any Insteon. Many in this forum are big fans of Insteon and only add Zwave for devices that do not exist with Insteon, such as locks. Zwave is a RF mesh network that works best when you have enough devices to repeat the signals. with my many Zwave devices I never have communications issues. While, as mentioned, many here prefer Insteon over Zwave, I have no regrets.  The one manufacturer (Insteon) and the many manufacturers (Zwave) issue has pros & cons for each.  There is much more choice with Zwave and new products appear all the time. Even though these manufactuers must all adhere to the Zwave Alliance standards, there are many differences in features and quality with Zwave devices. One thing that sometimes gets me mad is that different manufacturers use different methods of inclusion/exclusion in your hub, although more and more automatic inclusion becomes the trend. With Insteon, not much (or any?) innovation, but the operability is the same for all devices.

- I have 2 ISY 994i/IR PRO controllers... do I need to change controllers  (to ISY9941 ZW+/IR PRO) or can my controllers be upgraded to handle Z Wave Plus by buying the External Z-Wave PLUS Module (although the description for this module states "Use this module in case you have Zigbee module installed inside your ISY994" which I don't believe I have!)

I am pretty sure that you will be able to add the Zwave dongle to your ISY.

- As I understand it, Z Wave communications do not use RF or power line signals, that Insteon devices use, so if I add Z Wave devices, to my network, their communications would have to stand on their own... roughly, how many Z Wave devices are required in a home (say 3,000 to 4,000 sq ft) to make a reliable network? As an example, if I only install one Z Wave Plus lock on a back door at the other end of the house from where the controller sits will the communications work?

As mentioned above, Zwave is a RF mesh network. For your Zwave lock to work on the other side of your home, you should have several other Zwave devices in between. My guess is at least 4 or 5.  Note that battery devices do NOT repeat the signal, so use wall switches or plug in devices. You can buy extenders but I find these a waste of money as they cost about the same as a plugin device that repeats the signal AND can also be used, for instance, to control a lamp.

You may get others in this forum with different views, and some are very knowledgeable, using a combination of both Insteon and Zwave.

P.S.  (1)  My best experience has been with devices from Jasco/GE and Homeseer.  Inovelli has innovative products and Zooz has good customer service.

(2)  Polyglot (preferably through the Polisy) gives you additional options, including the use of some Wifi devices.

[lilyoyo1]

11 hours ago, GDavis01 said:

I have been using Insteon only devices for numerous years with my 2 ISY's (home and vacation home). The recent release of v.5.2.0 (RC3) seems to be primarily driven by Z Wave devices. I am currently on release v.5.0.16C and it appears that the new release does little or nothing for me. However, it did make me wonder if I should be considering adding Z Wave devices to my network. After a little research on the devices, Z Wave products look to be cheaper and there are more manufacturers than Insteon!

My questions:

- for those that have chosen to add Z Wave devices to their network, was it Price? Availability? or Features? Or put another way... Why did you choose Z Wave over Insteon?

- I have 2 ISY 994i/IR PRO controllers... do I need to change controllers  (to ISY9941 ZW+/IR PRO) or can my controllers be upgraded to handle Z Wave Plus by buying the External Z-Wave PLUS Module (although the description for this module states "Use this module in case you have Zigbee module installed inside your ISY994" which I don't believe I have!)

- As I understand it, Z Wave communications do not use RF or power line signals, that Insteon devices use, so if I add Z Wave devices, to my network, their communications would have to stand on their own... roughly, how many Z Wave devices are required in a home (say 3,000 to 4,000 sq ft) to make a reliable network? As an example, if I only install one Z Wave Plus lock on a back door at the other end of the house from where the controller sits will the communications work?

- Are there any other key factors I should consider with respect to adding Z Wave Plus devices?

 

 

 

I use both insteon and zwave. Insteon for lights and zwave for sensors. Zwave is far from being close to insteon for lighting while sensors is Insteon's weakness. I use zwave outlets for repeaters (have insteon outlets as well). 

I'm not going to get into the nitty gritty details of the insteon vs zwave argument as this question has been posted many times on the zwave subforum. @asbrilanswered the questions you had but I will add a few things. 

Zwave is still in its infancy with the isy compared to insteon so there was/will be more work needed for it than insteon which they've been doing for over a decade. With zwave being the confusing mess that it is, more work will always be needed than for insteon.

There's no set amount of devices for a given size home. I've done 1500sq ft condos where I've needed more devices than 2500 sq foot 2 story homes. I automatically assume the worse for various reasons and buy more than what I need. Most zwave issues can be directly attributed to lack of devices so don't be cheap. This goes for building your network and in the devices you buy. Those cheap devices save you money today but will cost you more long term. If you want the equivalent to insteon or better it will cost you. If your looking at going into zwave as something cheap, don't bother. Save yourself the frustration, hair, and money. If you're willing to invest in it properly then it can be extremely rewarding (except for the lighting experience).

I've attached a link to a tips and tricks write up I did not to long ago to help get you started

 

[io_guy]

I use Insteon only for light switches/dimmers, have about 40.  

I need to pick up a couple more switches but am debating moving to Z-wave for all replacements.  I don't want anything fancy so the GE Enbrighten fits the bill.  No flashy features and looks very similar to the Insteon.  It's also very shallow and auto detects line/load wiring.  

I like the Inovelli but I'm don't want a frankenstein house where every switch looks different.  

Main reasons for the slow transition is I hate PLMs and having limited controller options.