scene problem

[boser]

I've set up a scene containing

2486D KeypadLinc Dimmer v.2C and

2476D SwitchLnc Dimmer v.27

 

Clicking "on" in the ISY client lists both devices as on, but the light does not go on. When I turn on the light separately (not the scene) from the ISY, it does turn on.

 

What am I doing wrong? How do these scenes work?

I'd like to control the lights (and keypad status indicator) from either the switch, keypad, or a program.

 

Bernhard

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi Bernhard,

 

May I humbly ask you to read the section under Multi-Way Circuit here: http://www.universal-devices.com/mwiki/ ... ide#Scenes.

 

This said, however, I think you have signal issues. Would you be kind enough to go to Tools | Diagnostics | Scene Test, choose the scene that you created, and see if you get any failures. If you see failures, it means that the devices are not actually receiving group commands. This happens in case your PLM is not on the same phase as your switches OR if you the signal strength is not sufficient enough. In most cases, strategically positioned Access Points would solve this issue.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

 

I've set up a scene containing

2486D KeypadLinc Dimmer v.2C and

2476D SwitchLnc Dimmer v.27

 

Clicking "on" in the ISY client lists both devices as on, but the light does not go on. When I turn on the light separately (not the scene) from the ISY, it does turn on.

 

What am I doing wrong? How do these scenes work?

I'd like to control the lights (and keypad status indicator) from either the switch, keypad, or a program.

 

Bernhard

[JacquesB]

Hi Bernhard,

 

What you described here is just like one thing that ISY never stopped doing to me too. The first time, it took me hours before understanding it. Even now, I can keep searching for a while before remembering about that and checking it!

 

Your scene has been reset to an On Level of 0%. The scene does turn the light On, but with a level of 0%, so in the fact, the light remains off.

 

In the admin console, click on the scene and adjust the On Level of that light to 100%. The On Level is the one associated with the device in the scene, not the On Level of the device itself in the "My Lighting" part of the console.

 

Hope it will help you,

 

Jacques

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi JacquesB,

 

Long time no see!

 

In my humble opinion, these are two distinct situations. In Bernhard's case, ISY is actually showing the correct status but the light itself is not on.

 

As far as you having this issue so very many times, I am quite baffled: whenever you add a device to a scene, the default on level is 100% and default ramp rate is 0. The only way this is not the case is if you import existing links in the devices. If this is not the case, then I would want to hear more since perhaps this is an uncovered bug.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[JacquesB]

Hi Michel,

 

The fact that ISY shows the light as On is exactly why I think this is the same problem. The ISY sent the command On and received the acknowledge, so considers it done. The fact that the light is so low does not matter for it.

 

I've never found the reason why some scenes drop to 0% for some devices, but they did. Should I found what exactly creates that, I will tell you about it, but it happened just enough for being a real frustration and not enough for an easy diagnostic.

 

Jacques

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi Jacques,

 

Thanks so very much for the feedback. The main question is if ISY has the correct on level for that controller for that responder.

 

If ISY has the correct on level in that combination and still reports the wrong on level, then that's a real bug that we have to fix. Would you confirm if this was the case?

 

With kind regards,

Michel

 

Hi Michel,

 

The fact that ISY shows the light as On is exactly why I think this is the same problem. The ISY sent the command On and received the acknowledge, so considers it done. The fact that the light is so low does not matter for it.

 

I've never found the reason why some scenes drop to 0% for some devices, but they did. Should I found what exactly creates that, I will tell you about it, but it happened just enough for being a real frustration and not enough for an easy diagnostic.

 

Jacques

[JacquesB]

Hello Michel,

 

It just happened again : for no reason, the ISY changed the settings for a device in one of my scene.

 

First, I started to troubleshoot a ghost link, where one light was responding to a controller it should not. After removing one ghost, another just appeared from another controller. I had to remove 2 hardwired ghost controllers, one of them twice, and one from a remotelinc.

 

Once done, I double checked all my controllers, hardwired and from my remotelinc. The only thing that was no longer working was the "H" button of a keypadlinc. I use it as "Always Off" and it should turn off everything. One of the "ghost controller" was the "G" of that keypad. When I pressed H on it, everything turned off, except the local load of the very same keypadlinc. The A button turned off, but the load remained On.

 

I've just found out that the scene was reset to a 9 min ramp rate. I re-adjust it to 0,5 sec and now, my "Everything Off" function is back to normal.

 

That H button has not been manipulated directly during my first debug, neither was the local load of the keypadlinc. For no reason, a load level and ramp rate have just been modified by the ISY.

 

The only reason I can think about is that I did a restore on other buttons of that KeypadLinc.

 

Still not sure why ramp rate and On level are reset time to time by the ISY, but for sure, it happens.

 

JacquesB

[Michel Kohanim]

Hello again JacquesB and apologies for a tardy reply.

 

Thanks so very much for the detailed analysis. Would you be kind enough to let me know:

1. Are you certain you are not using programs to change the scene ramp rate/on level for a device?

2. Did the same on level/ramp rate persist after a query?

 

Thanks again and with kind regards,

Michel

 

Hello Michel,

 

It just happened again : for no reason, the ISY changed the settings for a device in one of my scene.

 

First, I started to troubleshoot a ghost link, where one light was responding to a controller it should not. After removing one ghost, another just appeared from another controller. I had to remove 2 hardwired ghost controllers, one of them twice, and one from a remotelinc.

 

Once done, I double checked all my controllers, hardwired and from my remotelinc. The only thing that was no longer working was the "H" button of a keypadlinc. I use it as "Always Off" and it should turn off everything. One of the "ghost controller" was the "G" of that keypad. When I pressed H on it, everything turned off, except the local load of the very same keypadlinc. The A button turned off, but the load remained On.

 

I've just found out that the scene was reset to a 9 min ramp rate. I re-adjust it to 0,5 sec and now, my "Everything Off" function is back to normal.

 

That H button has not been manipulated directly during my first debug, neither was the local load of the keypadlinc. For no reason, a load level and ramp rate have just been modified by the ISY.

 

The only reason I can think about is that I did a restore on other buttons of that KeypadLinc.

 

Still not sure why ramp rate and On level are reset time to time by the ISY, but for sure, it happens.

 

JacquesB

[JacquesB]

Hi Michel,

 

You can be sure its not a program that plays with ramp rate and On level. None of my programs look at or adjust these parameters.

 

As for the query, it will have to wait until the ISY does its little trick another time. I already fixed the ramp rate and On level manually, so can not see if a query would have fixed it on its own. For the moment, a query does not change anything and all parameters stay as they should.

 

Thanks for the idea and I will try to remember it next time,

 

JacquesB

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi JacquesB,

 

Thanks so very much ... on the one hand, I hope it happens again so that we can get to the bottom of this issue as it seems quite serious. On the other hand, I hope it will never happen again!

 

With kind regards,

Michel

Hi Michel,

 

You can be sure its not a program that plays with ramp rate and On level. None of my programs look at or adjust these parameters.

 

As for the query, it will have to wait until the ISY does its little trick another time. I already fixed the ramp rate and On level manually, so can not see if a query would have fixed it on its own. For the moment, a query does not change anything and all parameters stay as they should.

 

Thanks for the idea and I will try to remember it next time,

 

JacquesB

[boser]

Many thanks. I've setup the scene per the instructions. Definitely a signal issue; the link works intermittently. Sometimes the diagnostics does find a problem.

 

I've installed an access point in an adjacent outlet but this did not help. Perhaps the access point is not configured correctly. How can I diagnose this?

 

Many thanks,

Bernhard

 

Hi Bernhard,

 

May I humbly ask you to read the section under Multi-Way Circuit here: http://www.universal-devices.com/mwiki/ ... ide#Scenes.

 

This said, however, I think you have signal issues. Would you be kind enough to go to Tools | Diagnostics | Scene Test, choose the scene that you created, and see if you get any failures. If you see failures, it means that the devices are not actually receiving group commands. This happens in case your PLM is not on the same phase as your switches OR if you the signal strength is not sufficient enough. In most cases, strategically positioned Access Points would solve this issue.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

 

I've set up a scene containing

2486D KeypadLinc Dimmer v.2C and

2476D SwitchLnc Dimmer v.27

 

Clicking "on" in the ISY client lists both devices as on, but the light does not go on. When I turn on the light separately (not the scene) from the ISY, it does turn on.

 

What am I doing wrong? How do these scenes work?

I'd like to control the lights (and keypad status indicator) from either the switch, keypad, or a program.

 

Bernhard

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi Bernhard,

 

Thanks for the update.

 

The best way to diagnose this - and though very difficult - is to make sure that your switch and access point on are the same phase. If they are not, then the access point will not help.

 

Another point would be to make sure that the actual load the switch is connected to is not producing noise. If you can, simply unplug the load and checkout the results.

 

Also, just out of curiosity, what's the firmware version of your switch?

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[boser]

Michael,

 

All devices are on the same phase, even on the same fuse!

This may well be a load problem (low voltage halogen).

Switch: 2476D SwitchLinc Dimmer v.27.

 

I've noticed several different versions of SwitchLinc's: v.35, v.00.

 

Should I upgrade the v.00 and v.27? Does Insteon have an upgrade program or are they flash upgradeable?

 

I like the programmability and status feedback, but my hope that Insteon would be more reliable than X10 has not panned out so far.

 

Many thanks,

Bernhard

 

Hi Bernhard,

 

Thanks for the update.

 

The best way to diagnose this - and though very difficult - is to make sure that your switch and access point on are the same phase. If they are not, then the access point will not help.

 

Another point would be to make sure that the actual load the switch is connected to is not producing noise. If you can, simply unplug the load and checkout the results.

 

Also, just out of curiosity, what's the firmware version of your switch?

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[Michel Kohanim]

Bernhard,

 

Thanks for the update.

 

The .00 firmware version means that you used the Address to add the device AND that the device in question did not respond back with its identification information. So, for the .00, I would take it out of ISY and this time try to add it using Start Linking method.

 

The .27 version is one of the most stable switches. .35 might be the one that's causing you trouble.

 

My recommendations:

1. Take out the load (halogen) and see if that makes any difference

2. Take out (take the set button out) the .35 SWL and see if that makes any difference

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[brobin]

If removal of the low voltage halogen solves the issue then use of a Signalinc Filter between the switch and the load may very well solve the problem. While Insteon is far more robust than X10, the transmission frequency is very close to X10's and loads such as poorly filtered transformers can wreak havoc on the signals. There is also a new Insteon plug-in dimmer, the 2457D2, that is a dual-band unit. IOW it responds to both powerline and RF signals generated by Insteon devices such as Access Points and wireless remotes. That may be a suitable solution as well. I'm guessing we'll see more of these dual-band devices in the near future.

[brobin]

If removal of the low voltage halogen solves the issue then use of a Signalinc Filter between the switch and the load may very well solve the problem. While Insteon is far more robust than X10, the transmission frequency is very close to X10's and loads such as poorly filtered transformers can wreak havoc on the signals. There is also a new Insteon plug-in dimmer, the 2457D2, that is a dual-band unit. IOW it responds to both powerline and RF signals generated by Insteon devices such as Access Points and wireless remotes. That may be a suitable solution as well. I'm guessing we'll see more of these dual-band devices in the near future.

[Brian H]

If the low voltage halogen lights are not specified for dimmer switches. Both the lights and SwitchLinc Dimmer could be damaged.

[boser]

Thank you for all the advice!

 

If the low voltage halogen lights are not specified for dimmer switches. Both the lights and SwitchLinc Dimmer could be damaged.

 

Wow, I never heard this. The halogen is old but worked fine for >10 years with X10. Perhaps I'll try the filter. Unfortunately it won't fit into the box, nor would the plug-in dimmer.

 

My recommendations:

1. Take out the load (halogen) and see if that makes any difference

2. Take out (take the set button out) the .35 SWL and see if that makes any difference

 

The halogen seems the problem.

But I've discovered something else that is strange: the light is controlled by keypad, with which it forms a scene.

The scene does not work, but controlling the light individually from ISY works reliable. I.e. if from the ISY I turn the scene on/off, it does not respond (scene diagnostics confirm missing communication with the light switch). But if from the ISY I turn just the light on or off, it works reliably. Perhaps its only the back channel from the light to the ISY that is not working.

 

Bernhard

[brobin]

Just a guess here but assuming the scene controls more than one switch perhaps perhaps there's something about the timing as the halogen switch may need repeated attempts. Another possibility is that the links for the scene are corrupted and maybe relinking the scene would help.