Insteon being discontinued?

[MrBill]

Rob Lilleness, CEO of smartlabs/InsteonSmarthome has now scrubbed his LinkedIn profile of not only his Insteon experience, he’s also deleted his picture and edited his name.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/roblilleness/
 

[Techman]

18 minutes ago, MrBill said:

 

Rob Lilleness, CEO of smartlabs/InsteonSmarthome has now scrubbed his LinkedIn profile of not only his Insteon experience, he’s also deleted his picture and edited his name.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/roblilleness/
 

You looking for this?

 

[lip]

Any idea who would or could buy the IP? Would be great if Universal Devices had this idea hint hint 

[lilyoyo1]

8 hours ago, lip said:

Any idea who would or could buy the IP? Would be great if Universal Devices had this idea hint hint 

I doubt anyone who knows would say anything as that could effect the sale

[grumpy]

https://www.androidpolice.com/insteon-smart-home-cautionary-tale/#update-2022-04-23-13-52-est-by-stephen-schenck

https://www.insteon.com/

"Dear Insteon Community,

In 2017, after many successful years, Smartlabs, Inc found itself in financial difficulties and the path forward was unclear. That year, Smartlabs took in additional capital and brought in new management to turn the situation around. These efforts resulted in new investment into the fortification of the technology and development of new products. The future was looking bright.

In 2019, the onset of the global pandemic brought unforeseen disruption to the market, but the company continued to move forward. However, the subsequent (and enduring) disruption to the supply chain caused by the pandemic proved incredibly difficult and the company engaged in a sales process in November, 2021. The goal was to find a parent for the company and continue to invest in new products and the technology. The process resulted in several interested parties and a sale was expected to be realized in the March timeframe. Unfortunately, that sale did not materialize. Consequently, the company was assigned to a financial services firm in March to optimize the assets of the company.

The pioneering work in smart lighting and world-class products have created an extraordinary following and community. Clearly, all Smartlabs’ employees who have worked so hard to produce such world-class products and technology hope that a buyer can be found for the company.

Although incredibly difficult, we hope that the Insteon community understands the tireless efforts by all the employees to serve our customers, and deeply apologize to the community."

[Tim McDermott]

And it took this long to own this? Too little and much too late.

[larryllix]

pandemic in 2019?

[grumpy]

This reminds me of X10 saga when it went bankrupt.

some one got interested at the end and bought the technology dirt cheap and today X10 is still going.

 story .......   https://forums.x10.com/index.php?topic=28678.0

To my knowledge Smartlabs Insteon  did not manufacture their products, someone else made it, so no manufacturing facility to buy.

The protocol is ,in my opinion, one of the best.

[MrBill]

22 hours ago, grumpy said:

story .......   https://forums.x10.com/index.php?topic=28678.0

I get a dead link for that.  In fact I was about to say something similar about X10 last week, but noticed that all of X10.com seems to be gone.   I wondered if the the site was actually run by smarthome, even tho smarthome quit selling X10 awhile ago.

Nevermind... it was blocked by AdGuard.

[DAlter01]

I don't think Rob intended to just buy and milk Insteon.  I don't think it was profitable and certainly didn't have enough inventory/assets to buy it just to sell off assets.  I'm sure the plan was to re-envision and update an existing technology and to feed cash to the business until the time the business was cash-flowing, at which time he would sell it to Nokia or some other entity.  It is essentially the model I use as a rental real estate investor.  I take properties that are running poorly, re-envision what they can be, implement the changes which allows them to cash flow much better, and then sell them to someone who likes a nice pretty thing and they pay full retail price (or sometimes I keep them).  

BUT, he made a mistake and that mistake might not have come to the surface if it had not been for the pandemic.  The lesson he didn't know or respect is "The best plan in the world is a bad plan if you don't have the capital to complete it".  I learned that lesson early on, barely escaping a catastrophy, and have been very cautious since then.

If the pandemic hadn't hurt cash flows of the legacy Insteon brand, he might have made it through.  But, in addition to the pandemic issues, he orphaned the legacy Insteon brand far too early.  If he had streamlined the legacy Insteon business by eliminating some of the "waste" we have heard existed, and not abandoned all marketing efforts on that brand (stiffing integrators by eliminating their discount, dropping critical products, alienating UDI, not making any marketing "puff" statements on their website and to the media, etc, etc.) he might have cash flowed enough from that legacy product to see his plan through to a better outcome. 

The business had to be flushing huge amounts of money down the toilet since it didn't have any product to sell for the last 12 months.  How do you "sell" a business losing that much money to anyone?  Well, it seems you don't.

The pandemic was certainly a factor in the demise of Insteon.  But, it probably didn't have to happen.  Ignoring/alienating the legacy Insteon product line that could pay the bills to keep the lights on (or at least minimize negative cash flow) was the real reason Rob failed, IMHO.

Hopefully, this will just be a pause in the story of Insteon and a new life will come up from the ashes of Rob's era.  There may be a new life to the IP from someone with a better business plan (vision) and has the capital to see the plan through to a better outcome. 

[grumpy]

Dead link.... strange... I'm on the two sites right now. I can order using Paypal.

Smarthome store and Radio Shack used to sell the X10 products along time ago and often under their own name.

If I remember correctly one distributor (Texas) pick up line . Anyway, I never like X10 because it was maybe yes maybe no connections , the phase problem, not been bidirectional (no feed back)   etc. but they (had) have a good line up of products and some of the X10 modules lasted more than 20 years of usage I have seen some of these recently .

( I have Insteon , Smarthome, Smartlabs modules that are 10 yo and still working)

X10 still sell because of their prices.. like $25 per module.

Anyway it's a long story, but at the time of bankruptcy ,customers had the same reactions remove all and send to the garbage boxes full of these things. ... what a waste, then some were selling on eBay etc. brand new modules for $5.

Another problem X10 had, was the fake knockoffs (none UL or CSA rated) that sold cheaper so that eventually influence their sales. (I have never seen Insteon knockoffs.)

IMO, business being business  lets play hard ball. Let them fall and get rid of the middle man and pick what ever is useful.

 

 

 

[AgingTechNerd]

Sorry if this is a duplicate...

Just in case folks we not made aware of this offer by Shelly. I really like their stuff. 

https://shelly.cloud/insteon-customers-help/

Hope this helps.

[sjenkins]

2 hours ago, DAlter01 said:

I don't think Rob intended to just buy and milk Insteon.  I don't think it was profitable and certainly didn't have enough inventory/assets to buy it just to sell off assets.  I'm sure the plan was to re-envision and update an existing technology and to feed cash to the business until the time the business was cash-flowing, at which time he would sell it to Nokia or some other entity.  It is essentially the model I use as a rental real estate investor.  I take properties that are running poorly, re-envision what they can be, implement the changes which allows them to cash flow much better, and then sell them to someone who likes a nice pretty thing and they pay full retail price (or sometimes I keep them).  

BUT, he made a mistake and that mistake might not have come to the surface if it had not been for the pandemic.  The lesson he didn't know or respect is "The best plan in the world is a bad plan if you don't have the capital to complete it".  I learned that lesson early on, barely escaping a catastrophy, and have been very cautious since then.

If the pandemic hadn't hurt cash flows of the legacy Insteon brand, he might have made it through.  But, in addition to the pandemic issues, he orphaned the legacy Insteon brand far too early.  If he had streamlined the legacy Insteon business by eliminating some of the "waste" we have heard existed, and not abandoned all marketing efforts on that brand (stiffing integrators by eliminating their discount, dropping critical products, alienating UDI, not making any marketing "puff" statements on their website and to the media, etc, etc.) he might have cash flowed enough from that legacy product to see his plan through to a better outcome. 

The business had to be flushing huge amounts of money down the toilet since it didn't have any product to sell for the last 12 months.  How do you "sell" a business losing that much money to anyone?  Well, it seems you don't.

The pandemic was certainly a factor in the demise of Insteon.  But, it probably didn't have to happen.  Ignoring/alienating the legacy Insteon product line that could pay the bills to keep the lights on (or at least minimize negative cash flow) was the real reason Rob failed, IMHO.

Hopefully, this will just be a pause in the story of Insteon and a new life will come up from the ashes of Rob's era.  There may be a new life to the IP from someone with a better business plan (vision) and has the capital to see the plan through to a better outcome. 

I think you have it right. 
I also hope the platform will survive. This is still the best tech out there. 

[DAlter01]

35 minutes ago, sjenkins said:

I think you have it right. 
I also hope the platform will survive. This is still the best tech out there. 

Well, I think Lutron is better and, while not having any experience with C4, it is probably better also.  But, for something accessible to the ordinary man and for its price point, it is much better than everything else I've tried.  And, without UDI, it would have failed many years prior.  I know I've bought about 300 + Insteon devices between my two houses that I would not have bought if UDI wasn't the brains of the operation.  The HUB was nowhere near versatile enough to do any serious integration.     

I'm just one person, but there are more of me out there.  How did Rob think he would succeed if he intentionally tries to keep buyers like me from having a use for his product.  Buyer's like me don't require any marketing costs and, really, any customer service support.  That all came from UDI.

[upstatemike]

Before UDI existed I used PowerHome to manage my Insteon environment. Most interesting thing with that software was that it allowed you to set up half links to conserve PLM space.

https://innovativehomesys.com/products/powerhome-2-automation-controller-software

Their message board is still active though I don't see any mention of the Inseon shutdown.

http://www.power-home.com/forum/forum_topics.asp?FID=1

 

[Techman]

5 minutes ago, upstatemike said:

Before UDI existed I used PowerHome to manage my Insteon environment. Most interesting thing with that software was that it allowed you to set up half links to conserve PLM space.

https://innovativehomesys.com/products/powerhome-2-automation-controller-software

Their message board is still active though I don't see any mention of the Inseon shutdown.

http://www.power-home.com/forum/forum_topics.asp?FID=1

 

Their software requires a PLM, of which none are currently available. The ISY994 and the Polisy are far superior to their software package.

Not sure what a "half link" is. The PLMs can handle 1000 links,  I don't know of anyone who has maxed out their PLM link space. 

[upstatemike]

1 minute ago, Techman said:

Their software requires a PLM, of which none are currently available. The ISY994 and the Polisy are far superior to their software package.

Not sure what a "half link" is. The PLMs can handle 1000 links,  I don't know of anyone who has maxed out their PLM link space. 

How about these guys... Isn't this basically the same thing as Polisy except running on a Mac?

https://www.indigodomo.com/blog/2022/04/19/indigo-and-insteon/

 

[Techman]

21 minutes ago, upstatemike said:

How about these guys... Isn't this basically the same thing as Polisy except running on a Mac?

https://www.indigodomo.com/blog/2022/04/19/indigo-and-insteon/

 

Indigo is a software package that needs a, dedicated always on, computer to run on, especially if you need a real time clock for timed events, etc. etc.

Polisy is a standalone hardware and software platform that has everything you need in order to run a smart home. So the short answer is no, it isn't the same thing.

 

[grumpy]

Here's an article from 2017:

https://www.geekwire.com/2017/seattle-startup-vet-rob-lilleness-acquires-smartlabs-investing-7-3m-home-automation-company/

[RPerrault]

1 hour ago, Techman said:

Indigo is a software package that needs a, dedicated always on, computer to run on, especially if you need a real time clock for timed events, etc. etc.

Polisy is a standalone hardware and software platform that has everything you need in order to run a smart home. So the short answer is no, it isn't the same thing.

 

um - the isy and polisy are computers

runs some unix version - i have not grep'd in 30 years so i know little of it - but it is a computer 

reliable too - the specs for that polisy box are impressive for the price - especially since unix is so skinny

 

[grumpy]

Just for a basic scene, no need for plm's or controlers. The switches are programmable directly, manually. You need a controler if your using timers or " it then else" automation etc. I can turn off my  ISY and plm, no internet  and the 6 button switch scenes work. That's what's great about Insteon. Try that with the other brands I don't know any that does that,to my knowledge so far.  The controler is  more convenient for programming and automation. I remember the 2412N that was so simple. You could send direct commands with the codes. not the interface.

Today people go for the wifi crap.... they think there is no controler!!! it's cheaper! Every module, lamps everything is connected via the internet to a server but is it safe ?  One connection per module ? All of these are doorways into your system.

If remember correctly , the inteon's first hub was not encrypted but the second one was.

I don't like zwave stuff it's a routed protocol. besides they are on shaky grounds too.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[larryllix]

3 hours ago, grumpy said:

Here's an article from 2017:

https://www.geekwire.com/2017/seattle-startup-vet-rob-lilleness-acquires-smartlabs-investing-7-3m-home-automation-company/

Seems like SmartHome was doing OK until they hired ob Lilleness to drive it into the ground and close it up. Other articles report Dada tried to declare bankruptcy and the courts wouldn't allow him to do it so he took more drastic measures. Either way, I don;t believe Dad didn't own Smarthome/SmartLabs/Insteon right up until the end. The attitude never changed from Dada, with Lilleness. People don't invest 7.x million$ and seemingly set out to destroy their holdings. The money came from business smarts in earlier ventures.

[larryllix]

2 minutes ago, grumpy said:

<snippage>

Today people go for the wifi crap.... they think there is no controler!!! it's cheaper! Every module, lamps everything is connected via the internet to a server but is it safe ?  One connection per module ? All of these are doorways into your system.

<snippage>

 

None of my WiFi RGBWW/CW bulbs are Internet knowledgeable and only depend on my LAN system.

[RPerrault]

10 hours ago, larryllix said:

Seems like SmartHome was doing OK until they hired ob Lilleness to drive it into the ground and close it up. Other articles report Dada tried to declare bankruptcy and the courts wouldn't allow him to do it so he took more drastic measures. Either way, I don;t believe Dad didn't own Smarthome/SmartLabs/Insteon right up until the end. The attitude never changed from Dada, with Lilleness. People don't invest 7.x million$ and seemingly set out to destroy their holdings. The money came from business smarts in earlier ventures.

https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/richmond-capital-partners-2

he bought it and put himself in charge - via an 'investment firm' he started in 2017 had - only other investment was some cardboard insulation company 

from the geek wire link

As CEO of Medio Systems, Rob Lilleness led the predictive analytics startup through 10 years of growth and an acquisition by HERE Technologies. 

Lilleness is acquiring Smartlabs via Richmond Capital Partners, a private investment firm he set up to take on IoT companies. Richmond Capital is investing $7.3 million in Smartlabs as part of the acquisition deal. 

 

HERE acquired Medio in 2014 to bolster its real-time maps and location services. At the time, HERE was owned by Nokia but in 2015 sold to a handful of German automakers 

nokia - a nokia connection

HERE’s technology is found in a majority of in-car navigation systems across North America and Europe. Lilleness is ready to apply what he learned about the connected car to his new IoT venture.

so that $15,000 self driving option is the creation of the same guy that...

Prior to Medio, Lilleness served as president and COO of Universal Electronics. Before that, he was a technical product manager for Microsoft.

i have a friend that started a company - medical stuff - made a lot of money and expanded - but his wife could not let go of control - so he closed it - said there is an inflection point in a growing company where you get someone with the skills to grow and expand it or get out of the business - my guess is that the dadodadu guy did not know that point 

 

[RPerrault]

https://www.cepro.com/news/insteon_smartlabs_acquired_ceo_powerline_home_automation_richmond_capital/

...said Rob Enderle, principal analyst, Enderle Group. “Additionally, Rob Lilleness, with his background helping to build Microsoft’s networking business, is one of the few people that has both the resources and experience to take Smartlabs where I’ve always believed they could go.”