Ideas how to add outdoor fan...

[Scottmichaelj]

Currently I am trying to wrap my head around how I could add an outdoor fan in my backyard patio without wiring a complete new line to it. Our home is only 2 years old and we have a switch by our back door that controls three CFL recessed lights in our back patio. I would like to remove the center recessed light and replace it with a fan (without a light). The romax runs from the switch to the first light then jumps to the next light and then once again to the last light. I have not removed the cans to see exactly what access is available but I think its open. I was thinking about maybe using an inlinelinc on my KPL that is also located by my back door that controls our landscape and BBQ lighting along with the kitchen nook load to turn on the back patio lights. Then either just remove the switch and keep the load to the fan always on or change it to a KPL as well and use the load to turn it on/off not using a remote for it. I would be then limited to one speed unless I pull on the chain or something. Not sure how to do this or the best way. Any input would be nice. Otherwise I will need to hire someone to come out and try and pull a new line to it which could run me $400 and possibly not work. I would also have to run a new romax from the first light to the last one to complete things but again that shouldnt be an issue. Just thinking maybe I could do something with the inlinelincs.

 

Thanks in advance for the info!

[Xathros]

Hi huddadudda-

 

I would replace the switch by the door with a KPL with no load wired to it and just continue the power out to the can fixtures. Then place a inlinelinc at the first can for the fan and a second inlinelink at the second can for the remaining lights. Link them both to the KPL at the door or whatever. If you MUST have the fan in the center can then you will need 3 inlinelincs - one for each can.

 

Hope this helps.

 

-X

 

Edit: Just reread your post. Since you already have a KPL in that location, you can just eliminate the switch and use your existing KPL to control the inlinelincs located at the cans.

[tahoe]

I am an electrical contractor and do this surgery all the time. You can simply order a can converter kit that converts your can to a fan rated (50 lb) box. Then, buy a fan with a remote. The fan will be powered from the switch and teh other cans will be on when the fan needs to run.

 

**this answer is based on typical wiring

[Scottmichaelj]

Hi huddadudda-

 

I would replace the switch by the door with a KPL with no load wired to it and just continue the power out to the can fixtures. Then place a inlinelinc at the first can for the fan and a second inlinelink at the second can for the remaining lights. Link them both to the KPL at the door or whatever. If you MUST have the fan in the center can then you will need 3 inlinelincs - one for each can.

 

Hope this helps.

 

-X

 

Edit: Just reread your post. Since you already have a KPL in that location, you can just eliminate the switch and use your existing KPL to control the inlinelincs located at the cans.

 

Because there is a switch there already if I replace it with a KPL do you know if I can use the "load" button to control the inlinelinc? I thought I only needed one inlinelinc would be fine then I would just hop it to the last light and put the inline before the first one?? The can load is max 100w per light.

[Scottmichaelj]

I am an electrical contractor and do this surgery all the time. You can simply order a can converter kit that converts your can to a fan rated (50 lb) box. Then, buy a fan with a remote. The fan will be powered from the switch and teh other cans will be on when the fan needs to run.

 

**this answer is based on typical wiring

 

The problem is I dont want the lights on at the same time I have the fan on. Why waste electricity running lights during the day with a fan?! That doesnt make sense. While I am at this I will be ripping out the CFLs too and replacement with incandescent so I can dim them while I am out there at night. In other parts of my home I removed the CFL cans that were installed by the builder and installed the retrofit incandescent can. I did this in the kitchen so I could dim them. Nothing like having 6 100w CFLs in the kitchen all on at once!

 

Do you have a link to the can converter box? I would like to see one.

[tahoe]

Shame on you for taking out the CFL's.

 

Seriously, CFL's aren't so bad. I've never seen a 100w CFL but you can use a lower wattage CFL. Here in California we are used to CFL's. I've moved on to LED, even in cans. It's kinda funny that you are going to rip out CFL's in favor of incandescent bulbs and yet are concerned with wasting electricity. I gotta ride you a little on that one.

 

The "can converter" is available from Amazon.

 

I'm still not totally following your scheme. If someone hits the switch manually, won't you be losing power to the fan AND the cans?

 

Good luck with the project.

[Scottmichaelj]

Shame on you for taking out the CFL's.

 

Seriously, CFL's aren't so bad. I've never seen a 100w CFL but you can use a lower wattage CFL. Here in California we are used to CFL's. I've moved on to LED, even in cans. It's kinda funny that you are going to rip out CFL's in favor of incandescent bulbs and yet are concerned with wasting electricity. I gotta ride you a little on that one.

 

The "can converter" is available from Amazon.

 

I'm still not totally following your scheme. If someone hits the switch manually, won't you be losing power to the fan AND the cans?

 

Good luck with the project.

 

If you "dim" then you dont waste "as much energy" and you cant dim CFL bulbs. Plus I just dont like the color, and generally dislike them. I prefer the phillips reveal for a nice white. I think the LEDS are going to be the next best thing when they are dialed in. But you did catch me in a double talk about the CFLs and wasting energy

 

Is THIS the kit your speaking about? http://www.amazon.com/Can-Converter-Light-Conversion-Kit/dp/B000SW5LJK/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1256777185&sr=8-1 It doesnt look like you could put a fan on it. $45 is expensive too boot - wish they sold this at Homie Depot or Lowes.

 

With the KPL you take the switch out of the loop which then make the lights/load "always" hot. Then if you put a jump a "Y" from the hot to the cans with the inlinelinc you can use the KPL to turn the lights on/off. I just was trying to "run it by" people here to tell me if my theory would work of FAIL before investing the time. Saving me the hassle of having a "professional electrician" out here and figure out they cant run a separate hot or look dumbfounded when I show him a Smarthome product.

[developer]

My .02... to be happy, add 3 cond romex, (rwb+gnd) and another switch. Run the 3 cond to the center hat and use a mechanical light/fan switch (they come in decora form) to control the fan and the light kit below it that you should probably have so you don't lose light in that area. The center can just gets disconnected from the other two. They stay the same with their own switch, so you just place that splice in a junction box.

 

You can also check outside your house for an exterior outlet and take the power for the fan/light combo from there, running the (weatherproof) wire to an exterior switch, which leaves your other (2 remaining lights) switch array intact. This way, you control the fan and light when you are outside and no walls need to be cut up (if I understand all this correctly).

 

Then, the level of automation you add subsequent to these mods will be up to you, but you can then do it according to your own criteria.

 

Yes, you could leave the entire line powered 24/7 and then add automation controllers in-line to control the lights and possibly the fan/light combo, but personally, I am not a fan of leaving exterior constant load items powered 24/7.

 

I hope this helps with your project.

[Scottmichaelj]

Hi huddadudda-

 

I would replace the switch by the door with a KPL with no load wired to it and just continue the power out to the can fixtures. Then place a inlinelinc at the first can for the fan and a second inlinelink at the second can for the remaining lights. Link them both to the KPL at the door or whatever. If you MUST have the fan in the center can then you will need 3 inlinelincs - one for each can.

 

Hope this helps.

 

-X

 

Edit: Just reread your post. Since you already have a KPL in that location, you can just eliminate the switch and use your existing KPL to control the inlinelincs located at the cans.

 

Well Xathros just an FYI last weekend I did exactly what you suggested and it worked perfectly. I just had to add an extra romax line from the first can to the center one where I connected it as a jumper to the third one. One inlinelinc did the job keeping the center hot. Works great!