mbrossart Posted November 27, 2020 Posted November 27, 2020 I recently bought a Haiku L ceiling form Big *** Fans. It's a great fan, but it requires a remote to control it. They have an option for a wired control switch that appears to communicate with the fan via the common (white) wires. I don't know the protocol it uses to do this, but it's not working for me. The reason I'm posting in this forum is I'm wondering if there's any way that my ISY/Insteon automation might somehow be interfering with the communication of the switch to the fan. I did try disconnecting my PLM, but it didn't make a difference. I have a number of Insteon plugs and switches that would be more difficult to remove, but I suppose I could try it. I can't imagine that this is really the issue, but in working with Big *** Fans' tech support, we have tried two different switches and two different controllers in the fan itself. I've tried every combination too (i.e. each switch with each controller) all with the same result. This should be a plug and play solution. Tech support and I are both scratching our heads, and I'm starting to grasp at straws. Any thoughts greatly appreciated.
oberkc Posted November 27, 2020 Posted November 27, 2020 As far as I know, insteon communicates on the AC (black) wire. Also, insteon is intermittent. Given this, I have trouble imagining insteon creating a problem. On the other side, could the fans be sensitive, in general, to the presence of electronic devices? Maybe some of the capacitance or inductance characteristics of electronic devices can cause problems for the fan?
mwester Posted November 27, 2020 Posted November 27, 2020 Communicating "via the common wires" is a marketing simplification. All comms requires a difference of some sort, so the question becomes what the signal on the neutral is relative to: the hot, or the ground? If it's the ground, well, that's kinda silly, since the ground is effectively "shorted" to the neutral at the breaker panel (in US and CA residential wiring). Not impossible, I suppose, but suspicious - don't know about the comms they use. But, we DO know about Insteon -- we like to say it puts the signal on the "hot", but because of the need for a difference, one can equally well say that the signal is on the neutral, but inverted -- since (for example) a +5 volt signal at zero-crossing on the hot, relative to neutral, is indistinguishable from a -5 volt signal on the neutral at that same point in time. The conclusion: Insteon most definitely DOES put a signal on the neutral -- it's the inverse of the signal it puts on the hot. Thus it is quite possible the two are interfering, and also quite possible that the things that interfere or negatively impact Insteon reliability may also impact the fan signal in a similar way. (I may edit this post if I get the urge to dig into what that fan company's protocol really is on-the-wire... but right now, I've got other things to do, so if someone would like to beat me to it, please do so by all means!)
palayman Posted November 27, 2020 Posted November 27, 2020 Is there an FCC ID on the fan control? Looking up the test results using the ID would give you a better idea about protocol the switch is using. 1
lilyoyo1 Posted November 27, 2020 Posted November 27, 2020 Unless insteon is sending a signal non stop, I have a hard time believing that it's blocking a signal to your fan. You can open your even viewer to ensure no communication is taking place on your system while testing the fan. If there is a noisy device that you're unaware of then its possible if they communicate at the same frequencies
palayman Posted November 28, 2020 Posted November 28, 2020 7 hours ago, mbrossart said: I did try disconnecting my PLM, but it didn't make a difference. I have a number of Insteon plugs and switches that would be more difficult to remove, but I suppose I could try it. You could turn off all the breakers in the house except for the circuit with the fan just to see if works on its own.
ELA Posted November 28, 2020 Posted November 28, 2020 All Insteon devices are signal suckers. Within the Insteon mesh network this is acceptable because each Insteon Device repeats the Insteon signals it receives. This helps to overcome the signal attenuation caused by the sucking effect. However the Insteon devices simply appear as signal suckers to other Power Line Communication protocols since they will not repeat the other protocol's signals.
mbrossart Posted December 4, 2020 Author Posted December 4, 2020 (edited) Thanks everyone for your input. Big *** Fans sent me a new fan to try. They have great customer service. It actually took me about a half a step closer. I can now, occasionally, control the fan and the light from their wired switch, but I can't do it consistently. @palayman, I took your advice. Fortunately for me, the fan and switch live on a circuit with no other Insteon devices on it. I killed all circuits with Insteon devices on them at the breaker box. The switch produced the same result. Largely not working, but occasionally it would. According to Big *** Fans, the switch should be within 20' of the fan, and it is. That's 20' of wire, not a short crow flight. But, just to be sure, I wired the switch in the ceiling, just above the fan. Same results. The only other thing I can think of is some wiring issue in my house, but I have no idea what to check or how to check it. Since I've wandered outside the scope of this forum, I'll leave it at that, but if anyone has any final thoughts, I'd greatly appreciate it. Thanks again. Edited December 4, 2020 by mbrossart
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