Insteon 2448A7 + RaspberryPi + ISY994?

[apostolakisl]

21 minutes ago, MrWorf said:

I tapped in the top ones because it was easier to access. But if I would guess, I'd say both top and bottom are the same and they just used a dual connector for physical stability, however I never confirmed this so YMMV.

By putting the RPi inside the case, I use all the space which would normally have been used by the Zigbee/Zwave card so running both would be tricky, also don't know about the power envelope, running RPiZ and an expansion card might cause issues, but I don't know. I use HomeAssistant for Zwave anyway so it's not an issue for me.

I briefly considered tapping into the RS232 internally but I decided against it since I didn't want to make any physical modifications to my ISY. This way I can easily replace the board should I need to.

I'd caution against tapping into the ISY UART directly since I do believe there might some issues with voltage drops or similar since you'd still have an RS232 converter sitting at the end of the UART which could cause issues.

I take it then that the header socket there on ISY does not have any RS232 or UART connectivity?  I believe somewhere you mentioned that Michel gave you the pinout?

 

Looked up Raspberry PI zero power.  Without any accessory stuff on, (wifi, hdmi, etc) it only uses .4 watts.

[MrWorf]

On 9/16/2021 at 10:09 PM, jlv said:

I'm going to head into to building one of these, then build a couple more if it works well.  I'll be building a Pi Zero W to 2413U as I think that will be the easiest for others.  Will probably do a solder and non-solder version, but leave the "use ISY power instead of wallwart" to those who want to read this thread.

I plan to add to the instructions so we have a single page with links to products, etc. so that anyone can build by just going to that page. The idea would be a specific recipe with software ready.  You buy these parts, build this way, install this software, run these tests, etc.  I"m considering doing the image/config work as well (for Pi Zero W) and detailed build instructions for other pi's.  It appears we'll need a custom kernel for fast boot. I haven't played with Pi OS before but it doesn't look hard to figure out.  if anyone has already done the image work or install/config beyond the install.sh mentioned in the thread, please let me know.

In terms of contributing content, should I use the github project? Any other pointers so I don't duplicate work would be helpful.  I'll report back (it may take me a while to get to it).

Hi, you should be able to leverage a lot of learnings from my github project, including how to speed up boot times. It's all documented with pictures and all. If you do the 2413U and update with a PR it would be perfect (that way we keep it in one place)

[MrWorf]

10 minutes ago, apostolakisl said:

I take it then that the header socket there on ISY does not have any RS232 or UART connectivity?  I believe somewhere you mentioned that Michel gave you the pinout?

 

Looked up Raspberry PI zero power.  Without any accessory stuff on, (wifi, hdmi, etc) it only uses .4 watts.

He only confirmed the PIN out for the RS232 port, the extension pins I mapped out myself it wouldn't surprise me if there is UART and/or RS232 on the extension. If you find out, please update the github project so others can leverage it since yeah, the loop isn't pretty

[apostolakisl]

46 minutes ago, MrWorf said:

He only confirmed the PIN out for the RS232 port, the extension pins I mapped out myself it wouldn't surprise me if there is UART and/or RS232 on the extension. If you find out, please update the github project so others can leverage it since yeah, the loop isn't pretty

@Michel Kohanim  Can you comment on the pin out for the internal header socket?  specifically, uart or rs232 pins that might be there?  Also, would it overload the power supply if you had both a z-wave and a pi zero at its lowest baseline power draw (.4 watts per my google search).

[Kevin Connolly]

Question as to first start...

Assuming whoever has done this has started with an ISY full of data is there any procedure to initialize the USB PLM with data?

That said and again assuming this new setup is being used as a test of the interface, is there any procedure to be done after it's hooked back up to the "old" PLM?

[apostolakisl]

1 hour ago, Kevin Connolly said:

Question as to first start...

Assuming whoever has done this has started with an ISY full of data is there any procedure to initialize the USB PLM with data?

That said and again assuming this new setup is being used as a test of the interface, is there any procedure to be done after it's hooked back up to the "old" PLM?

As is the case regardless of how the PLM is connected, when you change out a plm, you have to do a "restore plm" from the ISY console.  If you go back to the old one, then you once again have to do a "restore plm".

[MrBill]

4 hours ago, Kevin Connolly said:

Question as to first start...

Assuming whoever has done this has started with an ISY full of data is there any procedure to initialize the USB PLM with data?

That said and again assuming this new setup is being used as a test of the interface, is there any procedure to be done after it's hooked back up to the "old" PLM?

As mentioned by @apostolakisl in the admin consoles File menu you will find the item "Restore Modem (PLM)".  That option has 2 modes of operation.  If the address of of the PLM hasn't changed it simply writes the links that should be in the PLM according to the ISY back to the PLM.  This is used to remove ghost links from the PLM, links that shouldn't be there anymore.. in that case the PLM is factory reset and then when restore modem is executed it simply put the good links back in.  On the other hand if the Insteon Address of the PLM has changed, a much more nuclear process follows, not only are the links added to the PLM, ALL of the device links must be re-written to reprogram the PLM's Insteon address.   On larger system this can take a long time.  Additionally to minimize problems and collisions the user should not create any other insteon traffic during the massive re-write.  That means avoiding turning lights on/or off, and likely its best to remove the batteries from any battery powered devices to stop motion and/or heartbeat traffic.  (all wireless devices will have to be delt with separately anyway since each will need to but put in program mode to have it's links rewritten.) and finally stop programs from exciting during the re-write (which can be accomplished with a temporary folder condition on the "My Programs" folder that is always false)

[Kevin Connolly]

ok, so I'm going to attempt this over the weekend and it seems pretty straight forward. That said, I can't tell you how many times I've sat down at one of my linux machines to do something straight forward only to be there for several hours...Ha

Once I have everything connected, and initialized the bridge (for now I've cron'd the service off after boot) what should I see on the terminal? Anybody have any screen shots?

Confirming that than what should I see in the terminal when I initialize the ISY?

Just want to reduce the variables if I have to troubleshoot this pup.

Thanks

[MrBill]

1 hour ago, Kevin Connolly said:

That said, I can't tell you how many times I've sat down at one of my linux machines to do something straight forward only to be there for several hours...Ha

Not to drag this off-topic, but you do know there is a corollary to Murphy's law that defines actual time required for any project:  To compute actual time required, estimate the time required, multiply by 2 and change the unit of measure to the next highest unit -- therefor a perceived 2 minute project will take 4 hours, likewise a 2 hour project will expand to fill 4 days ??

[Kevin Connolly]

Little messy at the moment but it works. I used a WITMOTION USB-UART 6-in-1 USB to Serial Converter. Came right up (I do however hugely agree with Mr. Bill above! HAHA)

I'll have to figure out how to get it all nicely tucked in my homemade server case. Right now the duponts go past the back case cover by a smidgen (annoying)

[apostolakisl]

@Kevin Connolly Nice work.  I ordered the parts to do it even though I don't need it, just in case stuff.

If you have the dupont connector stuff I might suggest just cutting your cat6 wire and put the connector pieces directly on to the end of the cat6 instead of using that rj45 pin out connector.  That would cut down a bunch on clutter.  When I bought the dupont stuff for myself I was so wondering why I didn't do it earlier.  Makes stuff so much easier and cleaner.

[Kevin Connolly]

I did the project as a "just in case" as well. Like a lot of people, I just wish I knew, even in broad terms, what Insteon's furture direction is. With this little mod at least I have some time to think what I want to do going forward

[RabidSnail]

Im new to the Community, just booted up my first ISY this past weekend.  Im having some trouble getting this project to work and was hoping someone more experienced than myself could help get me back on track.

 

Im having trouble getting my ISY to see my Pi.  I posted over on the GitHub page for this, but I figured Id try over here as well.

 

https://github.com/mrworf/serial-bridge/issues/3

 

Any help would be much appreciated!

[Kevin Connolly]

Good Morning @RabidSnailand welcome aboard.

I'm far from an expert on these things but there's a couple of things I noticed while looking at this picture as well as the one you left on Git.

Looks like you may be connected to the wrong pins on the RPi (a pinout is attached as well as earlier in this thread)

I zoomed into the picture on Git because I saw shiny spaces between the terminals. In zoom the picture got blurry so I couldn't really tell and the picture here doesn't show the same....but make sure you didn't accidentally tie the terminals to each other.

Other than that just make sure you boot the RPi before booting the ISY.

Hope that helps. 

[RabidSnail]

Here’s a pretty good shot of how I have the Pi wired. 
3.3V ——- Black ——- VCC

Ground ——Red ——- GND

GPIO14 —-Yellow -—- TXD

GPIO15 —- Orange —- RXD

 

On the other end of things, 

GND —-—Gray ——RJ45Pin7

RXD ——- Black —- RJ45Pin8

TXD ——- White -—RJ45Pin1

[flyindy]

OK, I gotta do this. I have two serial PLMs, I've replaced caps in both of them, but they both seem weak and my control is unreliable. My main question is since this is an RF-only solution, is there a recommended way to bridge to the powerline? I realize that many if not most Insteon devices are dual band and will repeat what they hear via RF on the powerline (or vice versa), but do I just build this and hope I have a dual band device close enough to get onto the powerline? Or is there a recommended bridge device, or regular device, that I should put nearby the RF PLM to ensure good bridging?

I think this was covered, but I'm assuming X-10 commands aren't supported with this solution. I have very few X-10 devices left, but do have a few, would be nice to keep that going but is not a dealbreaker.

[gzahar]

31 minutes ago, flyindy said:

OK, I gotta do this. I have two serial PLMs, I've replaced caps in both of them, but they both seem weak and my control is unreliable. My main question is since this is an RF-only solution, is there a recommended way to bridge to the powerline? I realize that many if not most Insteon devices are dual band and will repeat what they hear via RF on the powerline (or vice versa), but do I just build this and hope I have a dual band device close enough to get onto the powerline? Or is there a recommended bridge device, or regular device, that I should put nearby the RF PLM to ensure good bridging?

I think this was covered, but I'm assuming X-10 commands aren't supported with this solution. I have very few X-10 devices left, but do have a few, would be nice to keep that going but is not a dealbreaker.

Use this instead of 2448A7

Insteon PLM USB Modem Interface 2413U

https://www.smarthome.com/collections/insteon-compatible-hubs-controllers-software/products/powerlinc-modem-insteon-2413u-usb-interface-dual-band

[Kevin Connolly]

@hart2hart did it with a USB Powerlinc. 

I believe this is just a bridge between serial to USB so if your X10 worked before it "should" work I believe. but nothing better than giving it a try ?

[flyindy]

OK, thanks. I'm kinda torn, I like the idea of getting off the powerline, and have a feeling the USB Powerlinc is going to have the same issues as the serial. It looks like the only semi-critical thing I still have on X10 is an old IR543 IR receiver that I use in my home theater remote to spit out X10 commands to trigger scenes and programs in the ISY. So I may try to find an Insteon replacement for that (I don't think I have an IR receiver on my ISY, I'll have to check) and just give up X10 finally for good. I'm trying to solve reliability issues where, for example, lights should be turning off at sunrise and on at sunset, sometimes they do and sometimes they don't, and it seems like the status in the ISY isn't updating (presumably because the PowerLink isn't seeing the change). I'm hoping the 2448A7 may improve that reliability.

[Brian H]

The 2448A7 is Insteon RF only. So you need a Dual Band module to pass the information between it and the rest of the system.

It also does not do X10 at all.

The 2413U should do X10 power line commands.

[matthewjocko]

If anyone would be willing to sell a working version of this in an enclousure I would be willing to buy one.  Not currently able to make one of these myself.

 

 

[doctorjerry]

After setting up an Rpi0 and TTL converter as described and connecting it to the ISY and PLM(2413U)I get this

Any help would be appreciated.

 

Jerome

[MrWorf]

Did you install the required module by running sudo apt install python3-serial ?

[doctorjerry]

I did miss that. 

Once installed I got this message

This was with the serial console disabled and "dtoverlay=disable-bt" inserted at the end of config.txt.

I then removed the line (just to see if it made a difference and got this:

But when I rebooted the PLM it still went into Safe Mode :

[MrWorf]

Don't forget these steps:

https://github.com/mrworf/serial-bridge/blob/main/OPTIMIZE_BOOT.md#step-1-free-up-the-serial-port

This is important, because there's quite a few things which will interact with the onboard serial port if you don't