Can't seem to find the right trigger when buttons are 'misused'

[mango]

Good morning folks and thanks again to you for assigning your time to this.

Some context: I have the ISY run in 2 main modes: Owner and Guest mode. In guest mode I am only trying to apply this to 2 switches. One is a weird chandelier with 6 A19 sockets that have 60w equivalent bulbs in them. 100% is not nice. 'Fit smaller bulbs' you say. Lockdown has prevented me obtaining such bulbs (dimmable 20w or less that work properly).

lilyoyo1 I watched the vid, and was educated somewhat more into the use of variables, but I still don't think it will help as the second press is completely transparent to the ISY. It is unable to be tracked, so the variable cannot change.

xlurkr your suggestion seems to work very well along with the program at the top of this thread, I have another that senses the first press on then brightens by 1%. This results in every time the button is second pressed, the switch just returns to it's on level, then the program kicks in again raising by 1%. It's a super clean simple work around, that is perfect for the application I want to use it for.

 

Edited May 13, 2021 by mango

[lilyoyo1]

31 minutes ago, mango said:

Good morning folks and thanks again to you for assigning your time to this.

Some context: I have the ISY run in 2 main modes: Owner and Guest mode. In guest mode I am only trying to apply this to 2 switches. One is a weird chandelier with 6 A19 sockets that have 60w equivalent bulbs in them. 100% is not nice. 'Fit smaller bulbs' you say. Lockdown has prevented me obtaining such bulbs (dimmable 20w or less that work properly).

lilyoyo1 I watched the vid, and was educated somewhat more into the use of variables, but I still don't think it will help as the second press is completely transparent to the ISY. It is unable to be tracked, so the variable cannot change.

xlurkr your suggestion seems to work very well along with the program at the top of this thread, I have another that senses the first press on then brightens by 1%. This results in every time the button is second pressed, the switch just returns to it's on level, then the program kicks in again raising by 1%. It's a super clean simple work around, that is perfect for the application I want to use it for.

 

I'm glad xlurkr's suggestion works for you. Not sure why a variable didn't work as I use it for switching my music in the bathroom  from single room to bath and bed without issue

[mango]

^ Interesting. How does the ISY see the second press? I get nothing. Just to confirm, this is not a double tap, that can be tracked. This is a second press made some time after the switch has reached its ON level.

Edited May 13, 2021 by mango

[MrBill]

4 minutes ago, mango said:

How does the ISY see the second press?

This is the issue.... the switch doesn't send the second press in certain cases.

[lilyoyo1]

1 hour ago, mango said:

^ Interesting. How does the ISY see the second press? I get nothing. Just to confirm, this is not a double tap, that can be tracked. This is a second press made some time after the switch has reached its ON level.

I don't know. It could be based on timing when the isy sees the second press. Are you doing it quickly where it's seeing a double tap vs a single tap?  I have my variable set up to count presses. In testing my variable updates with the second press. Even in the video, it shows you the counter moving while testing the variable so I'm not understanding why yours doesn't update

My program is set to capture double taps and the variable. That way whether I want music immediately in both areas or change my mind later, it will operate without issue. 

Edited May 13, 2021 by lilyoyo1

[MrBill]

11 minutes ago, lilyoyo1 said:

I don't know. It could be based on timing when the isy sees the second press. Are you doing it quickly where it's seeing a double tap vs a single tap?  I have my variable set up to count presses. In testing my variable updates with the second press. Even in the video, it shows you the counter moving while testing the variable so I'm not understanding why yours doesn't update

My program is set to capture double taps and the variable. That way whether I want music immediately in both areas or change my mind later, it will operate without issue. 

re-read this thread:

do you think that's what the issue is in this thread?   I do.

[mango]

Lilyoyo1, Ahh yes so those button presses are tracked as I assume the switch has not completed the initial ramp or it is coded to broadcast presses if made within a window of time. If you leave the switch alone for a couple of seconds then tap on again, you will see the switch go to 100% with no update to the ISY which remains showing previous state (which is now incorrect).

Edited May 13, 2021 by mango

[lilyoyo1]

49 minutes ago, MrBill said:

re-read this thread:

do you think that's what the issue is in this thread?   I do.

Its his issue in regards to the status but not in regards to his variable not updating. The variable was only to track the button press so that if it was hit a second time, it would update and run the corresponding program. The program itself would then run based on that variable to set his scene to the proper level. 

[lilyoyo1]

53 minutes ago, mango said:

Lilyoyo1, Ahh yes so those button presses are tracked as I assume the switch has not completed the initial ramp or it is coded to broadcast presses if made within a window of time. If you leave the switch alone for a couple of seconds then tap on again, you will see the switch go to 100% with no update to the ISY which remains showing previous state (which is now incorrect).

The variable has nothing to do with stopping the light from ramping up. It was to track the press which would then run a program to adjust the light to the desired level accordingly. 

1 press- light (scene) turns on at 70% variable updates #1

2 press- light (scene) goes to 100%. Variable updates to #2. Program runs and Isy turns light (scene) to 70%

Off press- light (scene) turns off and variable goes to 0

 

[MrBill]

40 minutes ago, lilyoyo1 said:

The variable was only to track the button press

Exactly.  the switch doesn't say anything to the ISY, it's an Insteon firmware bug.

Edited May 13, 2021 by MrBill

[lilyoyo1]

20 minutes ago, MrBill said:

Exactly.  the switch doesn't say anything to the ISY, it's an Insteon firmware bug.

It's not a bug in the firmware. It's insteon's behavior. Insteon was designed to work first and foremost without a controller so there are things devices can do that the isy cannot prevent. 

The isy is seeing the press otherwise variables wouldn't update. The command that it sends (turning lights to 100%) is interpreted by the device outside of the isy. To the Isy, the device is only turning on to where it is supposed to go while the device itself is interpreting the command the way it's supposed to. 

It's similar to using the mutually exclusive option that the isy has (why Udi recommends scenes instead). Those are within the device and the Isy doesn't see it. 

[mango]

3 hours ago, lilyoyo1 said:

The variable has nothing to do with stopping the light from ramping up.

 

I didn't say that ?

[lilyoyo1]

4 minutes ago, mango said:

I didn't say that ?

Wasn't quite sure of your point so I was clarifying my statement to lessen the chance of misunderstanding

[mango]

2 hours ago, lilyoyo1 said:

The isy is seeing the press otherwise variables wouldn't update.

I'm going to try one more time in my nontechnical gibberish:

If you delay the second press (wait a few seconds), the switch will ramp up to 100% and DOES NOT send out the status of this, so the ISY cannot track it.

Imagine if you will a guest returns to an ON switch and presses ON once more. The ISY won't be told the switch is now 100%. It's happily thinking the switch is still on its original state.

This is the whole issue. I am not talking about a series of presses one after the other, those are announced and that is why the variable program works.

Edited May 13, 2021 by mango

[lilyoyo1]

5 minutes ago, mango said:

I'm going to try one more time in my nontechnical gibberish:

If you delay the second press (wait a few seconds), the switch will ramp up to 100% and DOES NOT send out the status of this, so the ISY cannot track it.

Imagine if you will a guest returns to an ON switch and presses ON once more. The ISY won't be told the switch is now 100%. It's happily thinking the switch is still on its original state.

This is the whole issue. I am not talking about a series of presses one after the other, those are announced and that is why the variable program works.

Im assuming you must not have read any of my precious responses on this post because I've already acknowledged and explained that explained that in previous posts right above this.

I will repeat, at the time, the variable was only to set the light to where you wanted it to be. Since you found a workaround all of this is a moot point

Edited May 13, 2021 by lilyoyo1

[mango]

Then I'm sorry you've gone way over my head and I don't understand.

You kept mentioning for this case a variable set of programs would work, when they will not. Am I missing something?

Edited May 13, 2021 by mango

[lilyoyo1]

1 minute ago, mango said:

Then I'm sorry you've gone way over my head and I don't understand.

You kept mentioning a variable set of programs would work, when they will not. Am I missing something?

That was at the beginning of your post. After you found a work around, i was responding to post in regards to how variables could have helped for what you wanted. Since you found a better work around, the whole variable is moot

[mango]

I appear to have used up all my 'thank you's' for today, so I am unable to re thank all of you for you input, but thank you again all.I've learned some new stuff.