ISY Not recognizing change in device state of keypad.

[DAlter01]

I have a new situation to me.  One of my 6 button keypads on a new install is not reporting its status to the ISY.  If I query the keypad from the ISY it will update the status on the ISY but it will NOT report back to the ISY that a button has been pressed and there has been a change of state.  I have done a factory reset of the keypad, no help.  I have swapped out the keypad to a spare (new) keypad I had, no help. 

I used the "replace device" feature in the ISY when I did the swap.  Is it possible the ISY has an internal glitch with the programming for that one keypad and by doing using the replace device feature I copied the glitch to the new keypad?  If so, I suppose the solution is to remove the keypad from the ISY, add it back in as a new device, and then recreate the programming associated with that keypad's buttons.  But, before doing that, I thought I'd ask the braint trust on the UDI forum to see if the issue has been dealt with before and how to resolve it.

Edited May 29, 2021 by DAlter01

[lilyoyo1]

2 hours ago, DAlter01 said:

I have a new situation to me.  One of my 6 button keypads on a new install is not reporting its status to the ISY.  If I query the keypad from the ISY it will update the status on the ISY but it will NOT report back to the ISY that a button has been pressed and there has been a change of state.  I have done a factory reset of the keypad, no help.  I have swapped out the keypad to a spare (new) keypad I had, no help. 

I used the "replace device" feature in the ISY when I did the swap.  Is it possible the ISY has an internal glitch with the programming for that one keypad and by doing using the replace device feature I copied the glitch to the new keypad?  If so, I suppose the solution is to remove the keypad from the ISY, add it back in as a new device, and then recreate the programming associated with that keypad's buttons.  But, before doing that, I thought I'd ask the braint trust on the UDI forum to see if the issue has been dealt with before and how to resolve it.

Firmware and UI? Go to Help>about

Edited May 29, 2021 by lilyoyo1

[DAlter01]

Both are 5.3.0.  My other 6 KP's are working fine.

 

Edited May 29, 2021 by DAlter01

[larryllix]

5 hours ago, DAlter01 said:

Both are 5.3.0.  My other 6 KP's are working fine.

 

Try the admin console "Restore". Right click on the device and select Restore from the pulldown. KPLs have a lot of links and if one get screwed up, due to noise or whatever, a single part of the dtata links can go missing. There are also tools to read the links from the device and compare them to what ISY thinks it should have, bfore and after the restore. If the read and compare takes minutes to get the data it can indicate you have a bad comm connection between devices and ISY..

[DAlter01]

8 hours ago, larryllix said:

Try the admin console "Restore". Right click on the device and select Restore from the pulldown. KPLs have a lot of links and if one get screwed up, due to noise or whatever, a single part of the dtata links can go missing. There are also tools to read the links from the device and compare them to what ISY thinks it should have, bfore and after the restore. If the read and compare takes minutes to get the data it can indicate you have a bad comm connection between devices and ISY..

larryllix, thank you.  I failed to include in my previous post that I had done the Restore function previously, to no effect.  But, after getting your post I did it again as I had not done it with the replacement KPL I had installed.  That didn't resolve the issue but I noted that it took well under a minute to go through the Restore process so it would seem that comms were fine.  I did find the data tool you mentioned and this has helped start to uncover the mystery.  I got the report shown below which shows a records mismatch on the device links table.  

[larryllix]

35 minutes ago, DAlter01 said:

larryllix, thank you.  I failed to include in my previous post that I had done the Restore function previously, to no effect.  But, after getting your post I did it again as I had not done it with the replacement KPL I had installed.  That didn't resolve the issue but I noted that it took well under a minute to go through the Restore process so it would seem that comms were fine.  I did find the data tool you mentioned and this has helped start to uncover the mystery.  I got the report shown below which shows a records mismatch on the device links table.  

That E2--->EA change is a normal single bit flag (0x08 bit  EA-E2=8) that changes frequently as part of the regular comm process. They are not a problem, like I was thinking. I have never taken the time to understand what it is for exactly but I wouldn't worry about it.

[DAlter01]

So, the mystery deepens a bit. I just deleted the KPL from the ISY.  I did a factory reset on the KPL and then added it back in.  I then used the tool to check the links and it showed the links matched between the KPL and the ISY.  At that point I assume things will work and conclude my prior issues persisted because I had used the "Replace" function on the ISY when I replaced the KPL to solve the problem.   I then inserted the KPL buttons back into the programs and then attempted a test.  The KPL would not initiate the programs on button press.  Still, all the other KPL's work fine and initiate the programs.  I used the diagnostic tool again to check the links on this affected KPL and I got a records mismatch as shown on the attached.  I see that the only difference is the EA to E2 difference, which as you suggest may not be relevant, but maybe it is pointing me in a direction.  I've started a support ticket with Michel.  

 

Edited May 31, 2021 by DAlter01

[DAlter01]

I just checked a few other KPL's that are working correctly.  As you suggest, they return the same Record mismatch with the only difference being the E2 to EA change.  Those keypads work fine.  So, it appears the error I am experiencing is not related to the E2/EA difference.  Hmmmm

[DAlter01]

As expected, Michel at UDI pointed me to my problem.  My PLM links table is full.  It reports 990 links and I'm only about 60% done setting up my scenes and programs.  It seems I need to develop some different strategies. 

My initial thought is to take a few of my large scenes and put all of the on/off/level settings into programs.  I suspect others have come up against this problem before.  Any thoughts out there on best practices on moving (mimicing) scenes with the use of programs or other ways to reduce link counts?

[larryllix]

12 hours ago, DAlter01 said:

As expected, Michel at UDI pointed me to my problem.  My PLM links table is full.  It reports 990 links and I'm only about 60% done setting up my scenes and programs.  It seems I need to develop some different strategies. 

My initial thought is to take a few of my large scenes and put all of the on/off/level settings into programs.  I suspect others have come up against this problem before.  Any thoughts out there on best practices on moving (mimicing) scenes with the use of programs or other ways to reduce link counts?

Excellent! I use as few scenes as possible. I find them dangerous in some respects as devices tend to lose links at times. I use scenes for MS to Lamp speed and where massive quantities will be flashed or used for alarms etc.. The rest are all mostly programs or WiFi devices now.

[DAlter01]

Its going to be a massive change for my programmming.  Currently I have a number of global scenes.  I have an "All-On" scene for turning on all lights (security, cleaning, workman, etc.), a "day scene" that turns on many lights at moderate levels, an "evening scene high" that turns on many of the same lights at a level more approriate for evening time than the day scene lights, and an "evening scene low" that has many lights but is a lower level of lighting than "evening scene high".  This is used for later in the evening, TV watching, etc.  Then there is a "guest scene" that has many lights at a level appropriate for when we are entertaining guests.  And, lastly, there is a "sleep scene" which turns off everything in the house including outside lights.    Add in a number of Z wave motions that seem to report a bunch of additional unneeded information such as humidity, light levels, etc (I suspect that frivolous information is coming through as a link), and then I have 8 Sonos zones all controlled by Insteon 8 button controllers running through an RTI.  Then, there are a total of 10 of the six button keypads many of which are not "needed" but replaced the antiquated keypads for the non-functional Lutron keypads I removed from the house. So, I have a LOT of links.  To get rid of some I'll probably need to give up some of the goodies I like to have.

I've tried running one of the big global scenes as a program in the ISY just telling it to manipulate 80+ dimmers/devices.  However, it bogs down and takes a long time to sequentially run through all of those devices.  So, that doesn't seem to be an option.    An idea I'm kicking around is to have my base "day scene" be a global scene for turning lights on/off and then having smaller scenes for "evening high", "evening low", and guest that just manipulate the devices that are different from the "day scene".   This should save a couple hundred links but that I don't think that will be enough. 

Another idea is to leave the companion devices uninvolved in my scenes.  I loathe the idea of doing that but would cut down on my link count substantially.  The idea being where I have 2, 3 or 4 switches controlling the same lights I include all of the non-load dimmers in the scene so that all of the switches are on if the load switch is on.  To not have those companions on when the load switch is on makes it feel like an amatuer programmed the system, which, I guess is true.....  

[larryllix]

Wow! Lots of devices. I hope I never get that crazy but it seems like it keeps getting closer.

Do you have the ISY Pro option? That increases the handling count of ISY.
Is your PLM a newer version? They are reported to have a larger capacity for links.

Do you have the ISY Inventory NS installed by simpleXTech? You can actually see how many ISY elements you are using.

[DAlter01]

22 minutes ago, larryllix said:

Wow! Lots of devices. I hope I never get that crazy but it seems like it keeps getting closer.

Do you have the ISY Pro option? That increases the handling count of ISY.
Is your PLM a newer version? They are reported to have a larger capacity for links.

Do you have the ISY Inventory NS installed by simpleXTech? You can actually see how many ISY elements you are using.

Yes, I have the Pro ISY, though I don't think I'm running up against a constraint there. 

On the PLM, I have the newer PLM 2413S (February 2021 purchase).  But, it seems it has a functional limit of 992 even though Smarthome says it is more.  Or, at least that is what I'm being told and have read on this forum.  

I'm not familiar with the ISY Inventory NS.  I'll check into that.

[DAlter01]

Ok, so it seems I've ventured into something unfamiliar.  I see that simpleXTech has developed some code to inventory the ISY.  But, I'm too much a rookie to know how to use that.  Do I need to purchase a new piece of hardware for that?  Do I need to subscribe to a software service that interfaces with my ISY to use this (and other) software?  I've heard of node servers but am naive about the it except to know that the ISY is one, but not how it interacts with the larger universe of options that exist.

[larryllix]

Just now, DAlter01 said:

Ok, so it seems I've ventured into something unfamiliar.  I see that simpleXTech has developed some code to inventory the ISY.  But, I'm too much a rookie to know how to use that.  Do I need to purchase a new piece of hardware for that?  Do I need to subscribe to a software service that interfaces with my ISY to use this (and other) software?  I've heard of node servers but am naive about the it except to know that the ISY is one, but not how it interacts with the larger universe of options that exist.

OK. After (as I understand it) 2021, you will require a PolIsy box to support polyglot v3. For now you can run polyglot on a RPi.

Inside polyglot there is a pulldown menu store that has a list of node servers (NS) that you can just basically click on and they will install automatically. You may need to reboot ISY and V5++ is required. "Inventory" is one of them. I can find no Inventory thread here. Most have there own thread for support and bugs etc..

Inventory will give you a pseudo-device page with a count of almost every ISY element there is, in your admin console. Like any device you could send notifications or take actions based on count values.

[MrBill]

Polyglot can currently be run on either a UDI Polisy or a Raspberry Pi.  (In the future the rPi support will be deprecated). 

There is also a free cloud instance of polyglot that can be used in conjunction with UDI's portal subscription.  However some nodeserver's are only available on one platform or the other, and a few on both.)  @simplextech 's ISY Inventory is only available on the local version.

[larryllix]

On second thought, I am not sure Inventory NS will give you what you want for the link problem.

 

 

[DAlter01]

4 hours ago, MrBill said:

Polyglot can currently be run on either a UDI Polisy or a Raspberry Pi.  (In the future the rPi support will be deprecated). 

There is also a free cloud instance of polyglot that can be used in conjunction with UDI's portal subscription.  However some nodeserver's are only available on one platform or the other, and a few on both.)  @simplextech 's ISY Inventory is only available on the local version.

Thanks Mr Bill.

[DAlter01]

4 hours ago, larryllix said:

On second thought, I am not sure Inventory NS will give you what you want for the link problem.

larryllix, that is a lot of variables and a lot of programs.  I see you are speaking the truth when you say you don't like scenes. 

On the ISY Inventory by simplextech, it doesn't appear to do a link count.  Since that is done in the ISY maybe that is sufficient for now until I figure out my next chapter and need to start doing more integration with the Polisy.  For integration, I have my Sonos running on an RTI using insteon 8 button keypads as the controllers.  I'll admit someone else set that up for me since I lacked the mental bandwith and time to learn that at the time it was needed.  Does the Polisy interface with Sonos?  I'm guessing it does. 

[MrBill]

13 minutes ago, DAlter01 said:

Does the Polisy interface with Sonos?  I'm guessing it does. 

It does.  Here's a link to the local polyglot store: https://polyglot.universal-devices.com/

and the cloud store is here: https://polyglot.isy.io/store (you need to be logged into a portal account to see that one... I thought there was a no login link to that store as well but I can't seem to find it.)

[DAlter01]

Thanks, looking through the list of  node programs/drivers, I can see that there is no end to control options.  I'm still solving lighting complications but I can see a lot of paths to explore in my future.